JEK@NIHCU (James Kiefer) (01/17/90)
Queue ball < BWA6067@TAMAGEN> writes: > For the RCC to proclaim someone a "saint," I've seen that the > RCC must come to a consensus of some kind that the person in > question, beyond a reasonable doubt, is heaven-bound. As a > result of such veneration, that person's soul is evidently > invoked as an intercessor before God for the one who > called on the saint. OK, so far, so good. > > 1. What function does the saint serve that Jesus cannot? > > 2. What function does the saint serve that Jesus does not? > > 3. If a mortal man depends upon that saint for services of > intercession, is assurance "beyond a reasonable doubt" really > sufficient? What criteria are used? What if the consensus > is in error? > > 4. Most importantly, if #3 is possible (that the church can > determine the eternal destiny of an individual), how is it > that mere men are able to pronounce what is essentially final > judgement upon other men? > > It seems to me that the practical implications of the answers > to those questions are enormous. If error in the veneration > of an individual is possible, then men who invoke that > so-called "saint" as intercessors are potentially calling > upon unrighteous souls to help them to have their petitions > known before God. That is a most precious privilege that God > has given, and I would not want to entrust it to a > potentially ineffectual intercessor. Taking your questions in reverse order: 4) My own communion (Anglican) does not claim infallibility for its listing of Saints, nor, as far as I can determine, does the Roman communion, though I understand there are a few theologians who disagree (Donna?). 3) The point to be kept in mind is that asking a friend and fellow Christian in heaven to pray for you is no different in principle from asking a friend and fellow Christian on earth to do so. I assume that you have no difficulty about the latter requests. But suppose that the person you ask is in fact not a Christian, or not in a state of grace? Does this possibility seem such a serious drawback that you would never ask anyone to pray for you? Would you say that being sure of his spiritual status "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not good enough -- that you have to have absolute certainty that he is a suitable intercessor before you will ask for his prayers? If you are as cautious as that, then your Christian life must be indeed a solitary activity. If not, then I do not see the problem. 1 and 2) God could presumably have made us for lives of solitary contemplation. For whatever reason, He chose instead to make us interactive and interdependent, deriving our existence in the first place from our parents as well as from God, completely dependent on others during our first years for the necessities of life, and even as adults directed toward a social existence not only (for most of us) by economic expedience but also by nature (Genesis 2:18). Spiritually, He calls us into a community of believers, united not only with Him but with one another. We are compared to organs in a body of which Christ is the Head. One of us, we are told, is a hand, another a foot, each with his own function, for the prospering of the whole. Modernizing St. Paul's language, we may say that we are cells in the Body of Christ, and that just as each cell in an organism has both its own life as a separate cell and the larger life which it shares with the other cells as part of the body, so each of us has not only his own life, but his participation in the life of the whole, and that Christ lives in His Church, so that the sufferings of Christ's people are in fact the sufferings of Christ (Acts 9:4), and so that the good works done by Christ's people are in fact the works of Christ working in in and through them. And so, we find that He seems to prefer doing things for us indirectly, through other Christians, rather than directly through a bare exercise of His power. Instead of sending a vision directly to each human, and with it the option of accepting or rejecting the Gospel, He has entrusted to men the task of spreading and preaching it, so that we might be dependent on others for our spiritual as for our physical upbringing. Even when He sends an angel to Cornelius, the angel does not preach the Gospel or baptize, but instructs him to send for Peter (Acts 10:5). Even when He appears directly to Saul of Tarsus, He tells him only to go into the city and there wait for Ananias (Acts 9:6). It is apparently His intention to make us into mirrors, each reflecting the Light of Christ to every other mirror. We are to bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). We are to pray for one another, and to seek healing, both physical and spiritual, through the prayers of our fellow Christians (James 5:14-18). Ought we to say, "I have no need of such prayers. I will just ask Christ to pray for me instead"? God calls us, not to solitary obedience, but to participation in a great company of saints and angels. We are told that those who have gone before surround us like a cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1), and that there is rejoicing among the angels of God when a sinner repents (Luke 15:7,10). All of God's people are one, sharing their joys and sorrows (Romans 12:15). And so we look to our fellow Christians, living and departed, rejoicing in their fellowship, encouraged by their examples, and assisted by their prayers, looking always, with them, to Jesus, the Pioneer and Perfector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). Let saints on earth in concert sing With those whose work is done. For all the servants of our King In Heaven and earth are one. One family we dwell in Him, One Church above, beneath, Though now divided by the stream, The narrow stream of death. One army of the living God, To His command we bow. Part of the host have crossed the flood And part are crossing now. E'en now by faith we join our hands With those that went before, And greet the everliving bands On the eternal shore. Jesus, be Thou our constant Guide. Then, when the word is giv'n, Bid Jordan's narrow stream divide, And bring us safe to Heav'n. Charles Wesley (altered) My favorite tune for this, ever since I heard Ethel Merman sing it, is "On Jordan's stormy bank I stand," (which requires repeating the first stanza at the end). A -B/c c cd e/d de dc B/c cB cd e/B - c -B/A AB c d/e a e ed/cB A BA G/A - c -d/e ef ed c/d -e d cB/c cB cd e/B - c -B/A AB c d/e a e ed/c cA B B/A - Yours, James Kiefer