UJCCPC@UNC (02/05/90)
> I note that Peter Capell has written a private letter to Keith > Gatling, and mistakenly posted it to the list. Personally, I want to thank Peter for this mistake. It seems like weeks since we've had a post with *any* substance, and several months since we've had such a challenging and thought-provoking question. I will say off the bat I disagree with the main point of your argument, but I agree with many things you say or imply. Being a Christian means believing what Christianity teaches when it differs from other religions. It also means being free to celebrate the common bonds with other religions, which are many and deeply rooted. Your question points to a major dilemma for Christians. We know that Jesus is unique and the key to God's plan for salvation. We are privvy to the most important information in the world. The question is, how do we prevent this from going to our head. It is easy to reject outright all other religions, to become intolerant, to take the stance, "We know what is right for everybody". However, this goes against everything Jesus preached. Jesus preached tolerance. Jesus warned not to judge. Jesus told us to be more concerned with the mote in our own eye. This is a very difficult tightrope for Christians to walk. At the same time that we are preaching "the good news", we have to be open to "the Christ" in all people, and must always keep in mind that we are sinners right along side every other human being. Although we have been saved and have a personal relationship with God himself in the person of Jesus, and although we are compelled by this relationship to share our experience with others, we have to constantly humble ourselves to the fact that we Christians have much to learn from Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, in fact, from any brother or sister sharing the struggle of being a human being. In summary, although I disagree with you concerning the uniqueness of Jesus, I, too, would not be surprised if heaven is populated with Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. And, boy, wouldn't we Christians have a tough time with that one!!! :-) Thank you, Peter, for (accidently) challenging us to think about this important question. Don't be afraid to do so in the future. I have some questions for you, if you want to pursue it, either publicly (my preference, since I believe the subject to be of extreme *practical* significance to all Christians) or privately. John Cromartie
UK3W@DKAUNI2 (Matt Will) (02/07/90)
> > I note that Peter Capell has written a private letter to Keith > > Gatling, and mistakenly posted it to the list. > > Personally, I want to thank Peter for this mistake. It seems like > weeks since we've had a post with *any* substance, and several months > since we've had such a challenging and thought-provoking question. > I will say off the bat I disagree with the main point of your > argument, but I agree with many things you say or imply. Being a > Christian means believing what Christianity teaches when it differs > from other religions. It also means being free to celebrate the > common bonds with other religions, which are many and deeply rooted. > Your question points to a major dilemma for Christians. We know > that Jesus is unique and the key to God's plan for salvation. We are > privvy to the most important information in the world. The question is, > how do we prevent this from going to our head. It is easy to > reject outright all other religions, to become intolerant, to take the > stance, "We know what is right for everybody". However, this goes > against everything Jesus preached. Jesus preached tolerance. Jesus > warned not to judge. Jesus told us to be more concerned with the mote > in our own eye. > This is a very difficult tightrope for Christians to walk. At the > same time that we are preaching "the good news", we have to be open to > "the Christ" in all people, and must always keep in mind that we are > sinners right along side every other human being. Although we have > been saved and have a personal relationship with God himself in the > person of Jesus, and although we are compelled by this relationship to > share our experience with others, we have to constantly humble ourselves > to the fact that we Christians have much to learn from Buddhists, > Jews, Muslims, New Agers, in fact, from any brother or sister > sharing the struggle of being a human being. > In summary, although I disagree with you concerning the uniqueness > of Jesus, I, too, would not be surprised if heaven is populated with > Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. And, boy, wouldn't we Christians have a > tough time with that one!!! :-) > Thank you, Peter, for (accidently) challenging us to think about > this important question. Don't be afraid to do so in the future. I > have some questions for you, if you want to pursue it, either publicly > (my preference, since I believe the subject to be of extreme > *practical* significance to all Christians) or privately. > John Cromartie Dear John, to me it seems, at least from what your note above shows, you have misunderstood some of the principles of Christianity and the unique- ness of its teachings: First you state: "Being a Christian means believing what Christianity teaches when it differs from other religions". My point is that, if I am a Christian, I do primarily believe in what the Bible says about God and Jesus, and I have to compare everything that is taught by a human being with what the Bible says, since I consider this book to be the infallible Word of God. So I should believe in what Jesus preached, not what Christianity teaches, at least not for itself. That is what it means to be a Christian: to believe in the Gospel and to live after it! Also, I suppose that a Christian does not only believe in what makes the teachings of the Bible different from the teachings of other reli- gions, but rather in everything written or stated in this book. Then, you go on with: "It also means being free to celebrate the common bonds with other religions, which are many and deeply rooted". What you just said is exactly what a Christian should avoid doing. Christianity does not have any common bonds with other religions, except for Judaism, as far as teaching is concerned. Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life"; he did not say:" I am one of several possible ways to salvation", as Buddha states. There is no alternative to the gospel of Jesus Christ, and there should be no mixing between Christian and other religions. In fact, our one and only root is the Bible and nothing else. Also, Jesus said:" Go in the world, get everyone to be my disciple" and not: Look at other religions and pick the best parts to add them to my teachings. We cannot serve two masters: either you serve God (the God of the Bible, incarnated in Jesus Christ), or you serve Satan, our ennemy. That is what the Bible teaches. What you suggest is something that is also taught by New Agers, and I agree that it may sound very attractive and tempting, but it is very different from what Jesus meant. Yes, it is true that we should be tolerant. But the way you interpret Jesus' teachings of tolerance is a way which is not implied in God's word. We should be tolerant among ourselves as Christians, and we should also be tolerant against others. But we are sent in the world to share the Good News with everybody, be it Muslim, Buddhist or atheist. We cannot make a decision for them, and we should not judge them, but we should help them realize that Jesus is the only answer to their questions and that Jesus loves them. We should not, however, put any pressure on those who do not know Jesus Christ. They will have to decide for themselves. The phrase "Christ in everyone" is exactly what New Age tries to teach us. The truth is that Christ is not in you automatically, but only if you gave your life to Him and let Him rule over you. Then, you have Christ in you, and there is no other way. We should always try to live like Him, but we are not like God. Satan tried to be like God, but he was thrown on the earth for that, while the archangel Michael said: "Who is like God?"... Yes, it is also true that we are sinners. But the important point (which you don't talk about) is that Jesus freed us from all our sins, back- ward and forward, by rising up to the Father after having died at the Cross. In doing this, he was victorious over the devil. So, please re- alize that your sins are forgiven, but the only one to forgive them is Jesus Christ! Finally, you state that we should learn from other religions. My opinion is that we have still enough to learn from God's word, and there will be no situation in your life where it will not give you the right answer. We should always try to understand other religions, but we are not supposed to learn from them. Their teachings do not come from God, and therefore we should not take them as a complement to Christian religion. Please understand that in writing this, I don't want to offend or attack you, but it is in His genuine love that I am writing those lines. May He give you the right understanding of His word. Matt
UJCCPC@UNC (02/08/90)
> I have to compare everything that is taught by a > human being with what the Bible says, since I consider this book to be > the infallible Word of God. , How is this different from what I said? Where Christianity differs, I side with Christianity. I don't know what "infallible" means, and I am pretty sure that human beings wrote the Bible (Moses, David, Paul, Luke, John), nonetheless I don't think we have a disagreement here. > Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth > and the Life"; he did not say:" I am one of several possible ways to > salvation" Please read my words: WHERE CHRISTIANITY DIFFERS, I SIDE WITH CHRISTIANITY. Actually, they're not my words; I stole them from C.S. Lewis--where most of my harebrained ideas come from. > Jesus said:" Go in the world, get everyone to be my disciple" and > not: Look at other religions and pick the best parts to add them to my > teachings. of I talked about finding common bonds, not creating some hodgepodge. Allow me a short flame: DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!!!!! Flame off. . > we should help them realize that Jesus is the only answer to their > questions and that Jesus loves them. This is what my post was all about. Matt, there is nothing you can say about our faith that I will disagree with, at least not the important stuff. The key question is: What is our attitude toward those who have not heard the Good News? What is the most successful evangelical strategy? Is it to force people to be baptized at sword point (Charlemagne did this with thousands of pagans). Do we just start preaching about Jesus to foreigners without trying to understand their culture, beliefs, etc? Or do we seek to understand, to "walk a mile in their shoes", to love and serve, to share, to cry with, to laugh with. Matt, we don't disagree about Christianity, but I believe we DO have much to learn from people of other beliefs. Muslims, for example, have a much better grasp of the importance of hospitality. To them kindness to strangers is not only a duty, but a sacrament. In this respect, they share a common bond with Old Testament teachings, so it is nothing foreign to us--they just do it better. I know someone who wants to dedicate their lives to public service, to try and better the world by working in the political arena, to really try and make a difference. That same person is a Christian and wants more than anything to follow Christ in his vocation, to imitate Christ in everything he does in public office. Who would that person look to, in this century, that he could pattern his career after? I can name only two politicians, whose struggle had a major national impact, anyway, that come even close to following Christ. One of them is Martin Luther King, Jr. The other one was a Hindu. I would not hestitate to tell my friend to study everthing Gandhi said and did, to pattern his public life after him. Gandhi is the supreme example of someone taking the teachings of Christ seriously in public life. We would all do well to follow his "experiments in truth". John Cromartie
UK3W@DKAUNI2 (Matt Will) (02/09/90)
John,
thank you for your note. We agree on the point that we have to learn a
lot from other people - from a human viewpoint; and so we have to try
to understand their ways of life, too. As Christians, we have to be good
listeners too. But if we go back to the Bible, in the example of being
hospitable towards others, we find Jesus teaching the very same.
Okay, I agree that some people might feel more obliged to be hospitable
if it is a sacrament. But that's one of the outstanding points in the
Bible: there are very few sacraments, and the highest of them is the
sacrament of love. I agree that we have many times failed in showing
this love to others, and we have fought against our brothers and sisters
rather than fighting against the ennemy.
But what do you mean exactly by your phrase (or c.s.lewis' phrase)
"Where Christianity differs, I side with Christianity"? I have already
said it, but I'll repeat myself: You can only accept or reject the Bible
and there is no alternative. You cannot take only a couple of points.
Maybe I did not understand what you mean by Christianity. If you mean
what has been made out of God's word by humans (including all the ter-
rible mistakes like burning "witches" and wars for the sake of conver-
ting people by force), we do not have to accept this. As humans, we are
all subject to making mistakes, so we should go back to the Bible to
evaluate what we are doing. Of course this book was written by humans,
but as it was written under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, it has no
contradiction although it was written by more than 30 different authors!
That is what I meant by infallible. I have to excuse myself if my past
posting sounded like a flame, because it was not intended to be one.
Peace,
Matt