[bit.listserv.christia] Hindu apologetics and the lack of Christian messages on this

PDBROYLES@OWUCOMCN (The Golden Rule: He who has all the Gold makes the rules.) (02/11/90)

>PDB I did'nt know this was the hindu defenders list. I started to read
>your defense PDB but had to stop not because you were merely defending a
>religion based on the demonic (Thousands and Thousands of gods, demons)
>not because you were defending a religion whose people are in complete
>bondage, but because of your attitude toward your brother.

If you mean my attitude towards my brother being a disliking for ignorance
then you are right.  MAKS is obviously very knowledgable and much of what
he says is correct, but when anybody attacks another out of ignorance and
hearsay, then I'll defend them---especially when there are probably very
few people on this list who would.  Anyway, how would you look when trying
to witness to your Hindu neighbor and you mentioned that Hindu's were
wrong because they believe XYZ when in fact they believe ABC---you'd loose
your credibility.  One of the best tools to witness to another is to show
them that you care and that you have an interest in where they are coming
from.  If you really want to get through to a Hindu, knowing his religious
background would do wonders.  Of course, as I realize now, this list is
not interested in truth, but rather in justification of their beliefs!

>What would
>Jesus have done if you came up to him and said yes Lord I love you I
>follow you I'm your disciple but, I really think these hindos are ok
>right on people in the way they believe. I'm sort of angry here and I do
>not believe I'm sinning in my anger by reproving you. Who will
>comprimise in Jesus' Name. By His Grace not me.

Majjor difference, if Christ condemned them, I think he would have A)
known the facts and B) not condemned them as an entire culture (the woman
at the well whose people were looked down upon by the Jews, the parable of
the good samaritan, Jesus going ouut to the sinners/thieves, telling the
Roman soldier he was saved not to mention the thief on the cross!!!)  If
somebody wants to condemn a group of people, judging by association, then
I feel sorry for them.  If somebody wants to condemn a group, let him
represent the facts of the matter not biased uneducated opinions!

>If I'm wrong in what
>I've just said in this note I pray God will reprove me. If any one wants
>to condemn me pray first. That way it will be conviction. The hindos
>might be real nice people but what is the state of their soul, and more
>than that what is the state of your soul if your are encouraging them to
>keep their belief. I'm sorry if this will start any arguments but this
>is a Christian reader. I would like to see Christian readings not hindo
>apoligetics.

I too would like to see a list with a Christlike attitude, not one where
one can attack his fellow human and be praised in the act!  Christ told us
"Do not Judge," and I don't care how many scriptures you can pull out
justifying your condemnation of a particular religion, in doing so you are
acting as God.  If the Hindu's are wrong, let God condemn them, but a
couple of questions:

a) what if they are right and you are wrong?  Yes the operative word hear
is "IF," but what IF?

b) Are you not violating numerous instances in the Bible where JC said do
not judge when you condemn another simply because of their religion?

c) Does not the Bible say, I believe it is in Isiah, "Vengeance is mine
sayeth the Lord God Almighty!"  If that is true, then it's God's place to
condmen not yours.

d) If you honestly feel that the Hindu's are wrong, pray for them and love
'em.  Prayer and Love are the two MOST powerful weapons one has!  You will
NEVER convince one that they are wrong unless you can first convince them
that you do care---about them.

e) As an extenstion of point D, a lot of what I have heard on this list
is: As Christians it is our duty and responsibility to lead the Hindu's to
Christianity.  In otherwords, convert the heathen.  Well, do you know how
this attitude comes accross, especially on this list?  It's our duty to
convert them, if we don't we're risking our souls, and therefore, let's
find out everything that is wrong with Hinduism so that we can show them
just how rediculous their religion is.

f) leading to this point. Many Christians come out concerned more for
their souls in the effort to make converts than they do for the people
they are trying to convert.  Trust me, this will never work.
        1) it makes Christianity look like hypocrits
        2) it puts the Hindu on the defensive

I challenge this list to adopt a Christlike attitude and love your
neighbor, love the Hindu next door to you, don't approach him with the
attitude "I'm right, your wrong, therefore I must convince you of the
error of your ways...."

                                Paul


Ps, I use Hindu in this message simply because it is the religion we have
been discussing (although I am not the one to bring it up originally).  I
could have just as easily used: Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Jain, Sikh, Druid,
Mormon, Shinto, and for some of you even Catholic!
                                        PDB

C009GARY@UTARLVM1 (Gary Samek) (02/12/90)

On Sat, 10 Feb 90 14:05:00 EST The Golden Rule: He who has all the Gold makes
>
>a) what if they are right and you are wrong?  Yes the operative word hear
>is "IF," but what IF?
>
I don't really like what-if and hypothetical questions.  They are kind of
pointless to discuss in large groups and to argue in any more than just
entertainment.  Let me stress that that is my opinion.  So I will pass this
question on tot he more willing.

>b) Are you not violating numerous instances in the Bible where JC said do
>not judge when you condemn another simply because of their religion?
>
Yes, we can not judge.  But where God has told us that people who do or do
not do things will not go to heaven or be with Him, I can say that without
judging.  For example, the Bible tells us that the only way to the Father
is through the Son.  That tells me that if you try to get to the Father in
any way but the Son, you aren't going to get there.  So, am I judging when
I live out the scripture and believe what it says?

>c) Does not the Bible say, I believe it is in Isiah, "Vengeance is mine
>sayeth the Lord God Almighty!"  If that is true, then it's God's place to
>condmen not yours.
>
Yes.  Vengeance is the Lord's.  But have you ever read Psalms 149?  It talks
about having praises in our mouth and a double edged sword in our hand to
overcome those that do not serve God.  That is a paraphrase.  You get into
one of those tricky situations dealing with where you have authority and
the authority to act.  For example, If someone spoke rudely in my home, I
can act.  I have authority in my home.  But if someone speaks rudely in public,
I can chose to leave or make a suggestion or make a request to someone who
does have authority.  But I do not have the authority in the latter that I had
in my own home.

>d) If you honestly feel that the Hindu's are wrong, pray for them and love
>'em.  Prayer and Love are the two MOST powerful weapons one has!  You will
>NEVER convince one that they are wrong unless you can first convince them
>that you do care---about them.
>
Yep, you are certainly correct here.  There is a fairly new ccm song out that
has the line "don't tellt hem that you love them until you love them yourself"

>e) As an extenstion of point D, a lot of what I have heard on this list
>is: As Christians it is our duty and responsibility to lead the Hindu's to
>Christianity.  In otherwords, convert the heathen.  Well, do you know how
>this attitude comes accross, especially on this list?  It's our duty to
>convert them, if we don't we're risking our souls, and therefore, let's
>find out everything that is wrong with Hinduism so that we can show them
>just how rediculous their religion is.
>
First of all.  I can not save or convert any other person.  I could not save
or convert even myself.  This is the sole job of the Holy Spirit of God
almighty.  I am told in the bible to plant seeds and to serve God by serving
others and to love God with all my heart, soul, mind, strength, etc.
It is wrong for a christian to take the attitude that he/she must convert
any person or group.  It is the christian's job to show the characteristics
of God's love and compassion here on earth and to preach the Good News.

>f) leading to this point. Many Christians come out concerned more for
>their souls in the effort to make converts than they do for the people
>they are trying to convert.  Trust me, this will never work.
>        1) it makes Christianity look like hypocrits
>        2) it puts the Hindu on the defensive
>
Yep, and this is an attitude of independence from God.  It is also damaging
to the church as a whole.
Maybe we will grow up and make our Father proud of us. :)

>I challenge this list to adopt a Christlike attitude and love your
>neighbor, love the Hindu next door to you, don't approach him with the
>attitude "I'm right, your wrong, therefore I must convince you of the
>error of your ways...."
>
>                                Paul

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Gary Samek                  ****
  C009GARY@UTARLVM1        *    *
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