Gloger.es@XEROX.COM (02/10/86)
Ed Turner made the coment that, "Much greater risks and losses [than Challenger's] have been accepted for the initial exploration of all historic frontiers ...." "Piermarini" observed "... but do we stop the manufacture of automobiles when there's an accident?" I sympathize entirely with the sentiments in these and many similar comments made in this forum. However, there seems here to be a staggering lack of recognition of the terrible consequences of the fact that this particular "exploration of frontiers" is being done by the government, that if the manufacture of automobiles was done by the government then you could be sure that it would be stopped whenever there's an accident. You might say that then there would be almost no automobiles, and you would be all too painfully correct, as witness those parts of the world where automobiles are made only by the government. Does anybody remember the last time in history when a government operation successfully "explored a historic frontier?" Yeah, me neither. Paul Gloger
kendalla@orca.UUCP (Kendall Auel) (02/12/86)
In article <860210-065500-1155@Xerox> Gloger.es@XEROX.COM writes: > >Does anybody remember the last time in history when a government >operation successfully "explored a historic frontier?" Ever heard of Lewis and Clark? Last week on Saturday Night Live: Why is it that newscasters feel obliged to change the name of a planet just because its embarassing to say over the air? What's so bad about telling 20 million viewers that scientists have discovered black rings around UrAnus?? I was wondering about that...
eugene@ames.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (02/17/86)
> Does anybody remember the last time in history when a government > operation successfully "explored a historic frontier?" Yeah, me > neither. > > Paul Gloger I can remember many. We had, what I considered, an important ocean program which died with the death of one aquanaut off the CA coast in the late 1960s. We want to go into space without exploring 70% of our own planet. Much of this work is military related. What happened to the industrial use of the ocean? Well, it turns out Mn Nodules are not as high quality and plentiful as first believed. You also need more than Mn. {same as with space: you need more than loncrete, O2, etc.} We must not belittle the efforts of the USGS, the purchases of Alaska, Lousiana (oops, sp) [I recognize we took a lot, too]. What about the non-physical frontiers such as nuclear energy and attempts of build great societies thru education [I was educated in the latter, and many of my doors are now closed to others]. I think many of these programs died for complex combinations of reasons. The economic risks are great. The social biases are interesting. Many people don't so see as we do about the uses of space. Rather than say, "They are blind" I try to ask myself what do they see that I don't. I also ask how can I convince them of the importance of my viewpoint. Occasionally, I succeed; I typically fail: that is the nature of debate, one rarely converts one's opponents. See the similarity of our arguments with historical record. We have great differences, too: we don't send POMEs (pardons to the English and Australians) into space. Most of the arguments for going into the sea were the same as going into space. Mostly the scales were different. --eugene miya NASA Ames Research Center {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene eugene@ames-nas.ARPA
friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (02/17/86)
In article <860210-065500-1155@Xerox> Gloger.es@XEROX.COM writes: >Ed Turner made the coment that, "Much greater risks and losses [than >Challenger's] have been accepted for the initial exploration of all >historic frontiers ...." "Piermarini" observed "... but do we stop the >manufacture of automobiles when there's an accident?" > >However, there seems here to be a staggering lack of recognition of the >terrible consequences of the fact that this particular "exploration of >frontiers" is being done by the government, > >Does anybody remember the last time in history when a government >operation successfully "explored a historic frontier?" Well, I seem to remember that Columbus's voyages were financed by the Spanish government. And I think Magellan's vaoyage was also a government venture. And Captain Drake was another government explorer. And, I may be wrong, but I think that the HMS Beagle was a government survey vessel, and look what came out of that! -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa