rigoutso@ROBROY.NYU.EDU (01/18/90)
Geia sas. Kapoios filos exthes anefere gia ena EllhnoKuprio o opoios esteile mail sto sct me diafores *erwthseis*. H entupwsh mou einai oti pali mas ksebra- kwsane oi *geitones* ... Pantws h upothesh deixnei na einai upo ekseliksh gia thn wra toulaxiston. Parathetw ta keimena pou exoune stalei mexri to prwi ths 18hs Ianouariou kuriws gia tous filous pou den exoune prosbash sto sct kai perimenw na akousw tis dikes sas apopseis gia to thema. BTW, o filos pou tha anelambane na metafrasei to arthro tou Spiegel sta Agglika parakaleitai na riksei enhmerwsh gia to stage sto opoio brisketai h metafrash. Epishs kapoios, dustuxws den krathsa to mail, eixe steilei munhma sxetika me TRANSPUTERS. Parakaleitai na epikoinwnhsei mazi mou me proswpiko mail se mia apo tis dieuthunseis: Internet: rigoutso@cs.nyu.edu BITNET:rigoutso%robroy@NYUCIMSA UUCP: ...!cmcl2!robroy!rigoutso Isidwros Rigoutsos ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) Date: 16 Jan 90 19:47 EST Subject: CYPRUS Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Ohio State University Sender: news@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu Lines: 47 I would like to ask all you that are proud to be named Turkish how do you feel about Cyprus problem. I quess the people in the news are the elite from the other Turks that I met elsewhere. I like an intellectual Turk to explain why Turkey attacked a small country like Cyprus. Do not tell me the arquments of the self proclaimed president of the "Turkisk Cyprus" because first of all there is no such country. All you Turks started shouting of what Bulgaria is doing to your people and I feel sorry for them. But how did you feel when Turkey invated Cyprus. Okey, you wanted to bring peace and you showed us how savages you were. You raped, you killed thousands and your Allah is telling you not to drink alchochol and like good Muslams you do not. But your God is telling you to love people not to kill and rape. After 16 years, Turkey is still in Cyprus and still insisting on 50% partnership. You Turks are a minority with 18%, how is it possible to say that 50% of the MPs and the ministers and the officials are going to be Turks. Then all the Turks are going to be some kind of officials in Cyprus. First of all I believe and I respect the Turkish Cypriot of Cyprus. But all the hardliners should be realistic if a vital solution is to be seek. If you want to change the mining of the word Turkish=barbaric,primitive you guys should do something. We are living in 1990 and no country should invade and kill and rape. I do not try to say that the Greeks are saint because we are not but at least Greek doesn't mean barbaric. I have not elaborate on the Cyprus problem since I am waiting some kind of response from all of you first. P.S. Our respect towards the Turkish minority was at least to let them be free and for many years the population was roughly 18%. At least we have done not even 1/100 of what you innocent Turks did to the Greeks of Turkey and the Armenians. Probable now the Armenians would have been 4-5000000 and you will be lucky to meet an Armenian in Turkey. The same with the Greeks. I feel sympathy for all of you nice Turks that everybody is picking on you. All the Turks and all the governments are innocent and I think all the Bulgarians should leave there country, all of them 8 millions and come to America, and the Bulgaria should belong to the Turkish Bulgarians. They are 20% I think according to the Turkisk justice Bulgaria should be renamed"Turkish Repuplic of Northern Bulgaria". Wake up and look around you. I hope all of you that believe exactly as the Turkish government you will be paid of what your grandfathers and fathers did to Armenians, Greeks and Cypriot. The rest of you that you disagree and believe in democracy and mutual trust I hope Allah will always be with you. An open minded Cypriot who likes to see his country united. Both Greek and Turkish Cypriot to live in harmony. The rest who do not belong to Cyprus to get there belongings and go alse where to create troubles. Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: dakkus@mit-caf.MIT.EDU (Deniz Akkus) Date: 16 Jan 90 21:11 EST Date-Received: 16 Jan 90 22:34 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS Message-ID: <3742@mit-caf.MIT.EDU> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!mintaka!mit-eddie!mit-amt!mit-caf!dakkus Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Microsystems Technology Laboratories, MIT References: <3947@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: dakkus@mit-caf.UUCP (Deniz Akkus) Lines: 24 In article <3947@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) writes: > If you want to change the mining of the word Turkish=barbaric,primitive ... >because we are not but at least Greek doesn't mean barbaric. ... >Wake up and look around you. I hope all of you that believe exactly >as the Turkish government you will be paid of what your grandfathers >and fathers did to Armenians, Greeks and Cypriot. ... >An open minded Cypriot who likes to see his country united. Ever heard of the term "oxymoron"? Have you read what you posted? Is there any reason why any Turk should spend hours trying to tell many people over and over again that to call somebody barbaric is not quite what you would call "open minded"? How do you expect to start a dialog (assuming this is your purpose) if you start off the way you do? I am beginning to get tired of having to explain why I was born Turkish to millions of Greeks. If you want a dialog how about a show of Greek civilization without resorting to calling Turks barbaric? regards Deniz Akkus dakkus@caf.mit.edu Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu) Date: 16 Jan 90 22:17 EST Date-Received: 16 Jan 90 22:42 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS Message-ID: <1990Jan17.031711.6954@cs.rochester.edu> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!purdue!haven!udel!rocheste r!mucit Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: University of Rochester Computer Science Department References: <3947@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu) Lines: 111 In article <3947@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) writes: >I would like to ask all you that are proud to be named Turkish how do you >feel about Cyprus problem. We had as much choice about being Turks as you did about being a Greek. I'd hate to get philosophical and waste bandwidth but I don't see how pride is relevant in this issue. >I quess the people in the news are the elite >from the other Turks that I met elsewhere. Where? >I like an intellectual Turk >to explain why Turkey attacked a small country like Cyprus. Do not tell me >the arquments of the self proclaimed president of the "Turkisk Cyprus" >because first of all there is no such country. I don't know what you guys were told in "the other side", all I could tell you was what I heard on "our side" which presumably would parallel what Mr. Denktas says. How do you figure that there is no such country though? Is it because it is not internationally recognised? >But how did you feel when Turkey >invated Cyprus. Okey, you wanted to bring peace and you showed us >how savages you were. I was a kid back then... And we were told that you people were killing the Turks there... And it turns out that the Greek democracy benefitted indirectly from Turkish military intervention. I think we also were using our right under the then valid treaty. >You raped, you killed thousands and your Allah >is telling you not to drink alchochol and like good Muslams you do not. >But your God is telling you to love people not to kill and rape. There is more to Islam (which means submittance in Arabic BTW, and if you look at it that way, maybe you are a Muslim (submitter) ?) than that and I don't see the relevance of religion here. Remember the crusades? [stuff deleted] > If you want to change the mining of the word Turkish=barbaric,primitive >you guys should do something. What do you suggest we do? I don't really care that much about what people say. I know I'm no more inherently barbaric than the next person. Maybe people who spread such things should quit doing so? >We are living in 1990 and no country should >invade and kill and rape. I don't think there's killing and raping going on in Cyprus right now. I find it hard to believe that a country could invade another and stay there for 16 years without being welcome in the first place. I don't think there is oppression on the Turkish side in Cyprus. If two groups of people cannot live together and they can be goegraphically seperated, then they are much better off forming seperate autonomous governments. There is a reason behind the Turkish military presence in Cyprus: the former system didn't seem to work. >P.S. Our respect towards the Turkish minority was at least to let them >be free and for many years the population was roughly 18%. At least we >have done not even 1/100 of what you innocent Turks did to the Greeks >of Turkey and the Armenians. Without Turkish military intervention, who knows what would have happened? We did find some mass graves as far as I can remember. And I think I heard about some similar claims from the Greek side. The point here is that it takes relatively few people to commit atrocities and somewhat more to prevent them. > I feel sympathy for all of you nice Turks that everybody is picking >on you. Gee thanks... >All the Turks and all the governments are innocent and I think >all the Bulgarians should leave there country, all of them 8 millions >and come to America, and the Bulgaria should belong to the Turkish >Bulgarians. How long did it take you to think this up? >They are 20% I think according to the Turkisk justice >Bulgaria should be renamed"Turkish Repuplic of Northern Bulgaria". >Wake up and look around you. I have another plan: why don't we unite Greece and Turkey? Then only 20 % of the population would be Greek and since we are settling everything by head count Turks would rule... [stuff deleted] >An open minded Cypriot who likes to see his country united. Both Greek >and Turkish Cypriot to live in harmony. The rest who do not belong to >Cyprus to get there belongings and go alse where to create troubles. I hope that happens some day. God bless you... -B.M. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- University of Rochester Computer Science Dept. Rochester NY 14627 mucit@cs.rochester.edu (please do not use bulent@ee.rochester.edu anymore) Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: ns1b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nickolaos Sahinidis) Date: 16 Jan 90 23:35 EST Date-Received: 16 Jan 90 23:45 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS Message-ID: <kZgzMYW00WB44995Zh@andrew.cmu.edu> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.e du!ns1b+ Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 12 Ioanni, Even if all you claimed the Turks have done to Greeks in Cyprus are true, I don't think you can characterize the whole Turkish nation as barbaric based on the decisions and the acts of some of them. If the part can be used to characterize the total, then everybody on this planet is barbarian. Cool down a bit. An astonished Greek, Nikos Sahinidis, CMU Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) Date: 17 Jan 90 00:33 EST Date-Received: 17 Jan 90 05:45 EST Subject: CYPRUS (AND TO NIKOS SAHINIDIS) Message-ID: <3949@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu! quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu!rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIA Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Ohio State University Sender: news@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu Lines: 58 AMAZINGLY ENOUGH A GREEK GUY TOLD ME TO COOL OFF!!! HEY ARE YOU REALLY GREEK? DO YOU REALLY UNTERSTAND WHAT DOES IT MEAN WAR. ARE YOU GOING TO COOL OFF IF YOUR MOTHER, AND 3 SISTERS WERE RAPED IN FRONT OF YOUR VARY EYES IN THE AGE OF 11 YEARS OLD. THEN YOUR MOTHER, YOUR GRANDMOTHER, YOUR 3 SISTER , ONE BROTHER AND YOUR FATHER WERE KILLED INFRONT OF YOUR FUCKING EYES. HOW ABOUT ESCAPING WITH 3 BULLETS IN YOUR BACK BECAUSE THE TURKS WERE TOO DRUNK TO REALIZE THAT YOU ESCAPE WITH YOUR LITTLE BROTHER. HOW ABOUT, BEING RAISED BY YOUR AUNT. HOW ABOUT YOUR EDUCATION WAS FINANCED BY BOTHOSAKIS (A GREEK MILLIONER) WHO FELT SORRY FOR YOU. SO DO NOT TELL ME TO COOL OFF. BECAUSE EVEN THAT I DO NOT HATE ALL THE TURKS. WHY SHOULD I? BUT DO NOT TELL ME TO LOVE THE KILLERS AND DO NOT TELL ME TO COOL OFF. WHEN YOUR LIFE IS GOING TO BE FUCK UP LIKE MINE THEN YOU CAN TALK AGAIN. AS FAR AS THE OTHER ANSWER I GOT FROM A GUY WHO WAS A CHILD AND HEARED STORIES I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM HIM THAT I DID HEAR STORIES. I LIVE THE FUCKING STORIES. MAY BE WE DID BAD THINGS ALSO AS GREEKS BUT AT LEAST ARE NOT STORIES. YOU TOLD ME ABOUT THE FACT THAT SINCE THE TURKS COULDN'T LIVE AND MINGLE WITH THE GREEKS THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR OWN COUNTRY. ARE YOU THINKING AND THEN WRITING OR THE OPPOSITE. ANYBODY WHO IS NOT SATISFY IN A COUNTRY FORMS HIS OWN COUNTRY? HOW ABOUT THE KURDS, THE ARMENIANS AND THE GREEKS IN TURKEY? DID THEY FORM THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT? OR THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT KILLED THEM? ANOTHER POINT (????) THAT YOU MADE IS THAT THERE ARE TWO COUNTRIES IN CYPRUS EVENTHOUGH ONE IS NOT RECOGNISE BY ANYBODY. OFCOURSE THERE IS ONE COUNTRY IN CYPRUS AND THIS IS CYPRUS. IF ANYBODY DOESN'T FEEL LIKE MINGLE WITH ALL THE REST, HE/SHE SHOULD GET HIS/HER BELONGINGS AND GO ELSEWHERE. IF A GREEK CYPRIOT DOESN'T LIKE IT HE SHOULD GO PROBABLY TO GREECE TO "COOL OFF" AND IF A TURKISH COUNTERPART DOESN'T LIKE IT HE SHOULD GO TO TURKEY. ANY COUNTRY THAT OCCUPY ANOTHER COUNTRY IS A BARBARIC COUNTRY. WHY SHOULD WE HAVE WAR AND OCCUPATION. WHY SHOULDN'T WE GREEK AND TURKS OF CYPRUS WORK TOGETHER TO UNIFY OUR COUNTRY. ANYBODY WHO IS AGAINST THAT AND CREATE A PROBLEM WE TOGETHER SHOULD FIND A WAY TO MAKE HIM CHANGE HIS MIND OR GO ELSEWHERE AS I MENTIONED ABOVE. I DO NOT FEEL SATISFACTION OF CALLING TURKEY AS BARBARIC BUT YOU SEE IT IS NOT ME THAT IS USING THIS TERM. HOW ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE CYPRUS PROBLEM AS A BEGINNING OF CHANGE IMAGE. I THINK AND THE HISTORY IS GOING TO PROVE IT, TURKEY INVASION IN CYPRUS WAS A MISTAKE ALSO THE JUNTA WAS A MISTAKE. IN THE SHORT RUN TURKEY PAID THE PRIZE OF INVADING TO A SMALL COUNTRY. IN THE LONG RUN SHOULD PAY MORE BUT IT SEEMS YOUR POLITICIANS DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THIS. DENKTASH IS A PION AND ONE DAY HE IS GOING TO COLLAPSE LIKE CUSHESKU. HE PAID OF WHAT HE DID IN CYPRUS. WHY?? WELL FIRST OF ALL HIS SON WAS KILLED BY THE TURKISK ARMY (WELL AN ACCIDENT!) PROBABLY BECAUSE HE WAS A FINE MAN WHO I RESPECTED ABOUT HIS IDEAS. THEN MR DENKTASH DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE OF STAYING IN CYPRUS IF A SOLUTION IS GOING TO BE FOUND. WHY?? WELL HOW ABOUT IF YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY OF 800,000 AND 700,000 HATED YOU. WELL PROBABLY HE SHOULD JOIN NORIEGA. DENKTASH THE PRESIDENT OF NO COUNTRY. HOW ABOUT TURKEY TRY TO FIND HIM A COUNTRY, OR RATHER CREATE HIM A COUNTRY IN TURKEY SO HE CAN RULE LIKE A VEZIR OS PASAS. I LIVED IN CYPRUS AND I HAVE SEEN AND TALKED WITH MANY TURKS AROUND THE WORLD. IN CYPRUS WE DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM OF RELIGION. I THINK THE TURKISH CYPRIOT RESPECT OUR RELIGION AND WE RESPECT THEIR RELIGION. TWHAT IT COMES TO, IS A FEW PEOPLE WHO CREATE THE CYPRUS PROBLEM. Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: dakkus@mit-caf.MIT.EDU (Deniz Akkus) Date: 17 Jan 90 02:18 EST Date-Received: 17 Jan 90 06:13 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS (AND TO NIKOS SAHINIDIS) Message-ID: <3743@mit-caf.MIT.EDU> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!mintaka!mit-eddie!mit-amt!mit-caf!dakkus Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Microsystems Technology Laboratories, MIT References: <3949@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: dakkus@mit-caf.UUCP (Deniz Akkus) Lines: 84 In article <3949@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) writes: >AMAZINGLY ENOUGH A GREEK GUY TOLD ME TO COOL OFF!!! HEY ARE YOU REALLY >GREEK? Amazingly enough, not everybody goes around as an "open minded Cypriot" when they are not. >DO YOU REALLY UNTERSTAND WHAT DOES IT MEAN WAR. ARE YOU GOING TO >COOL OFF IF YOUR MOTHER, AND 3 SISTERS WERE RAPED IN FRONT OF YOUR >VARY EYES IN THE AGE OF 11 YEARS OLD. THEN YOUR MOTHER, YOUR GRANDMOTHER, >YOUR 3 SISTER , ONE BROTHER AND YOUR FATHER WERE KILLED INFRONT OF YOUR >FUCKING EYES. HOW ABOUT ESCAPING WITH 3 BULLETS IN YOUR BACK BECAUSE >THE TURKS WERE TOO DRUNK TO REALIZE THAT YOU ESCAPE WITH YOUR LITTLE >BROTHER. HOW ABOUT, BEING RAISED BY YOUR AUNT. HOW ABOUT YOUR EDUCATION >WAS FINANCED BY BOTHOSAKIS (A GREEK MILLIONER) WHO FELT SORRY FOR YOU. I am sorry for what happened to you. But neither I nor most of the Turks on the net are personally responsible for it. I will not try to answer your claims, or post stuff on what was happening to Cypriot Turks at that time. To do so I believe would be disrespectful for your personal suffering. However, even this does not give you or anybody else, Greek or otherwise, the right to classify Turks as barbaric. Or demand that Turks explain themselves. What would you like me to explain? My people have suffered too, and the last time Greece and Turkey were at war (yes Cyprus does not count as war between Greece and Turkey) it was *my* hometown that was occupied, burnt, etc etc. I was born Turkish, I did not demand that it be so. None of us did. I believe that Turkey did have a legal right to intervene in Cyprus, especially after the coup designed to eventually unite Cyprus and Greece. Turkey's right to set up a different government, occupy as much of the land as they did, and keep up the division -- these are issues that could be discussed in a less emotionally involved forum. >SO DO NOT TELL ME TO COOL OFF. BECAUSE EVEN THAT I DO NOT HATE ALL THE >TURKS. WHY SHOULD I? BUT DO NOT TELL ME TO LOVE THE KILLERS AND DO NOT Are you sure? Classifying people as barbaric is quite strong terminology. I do not believe that Turks are barbaric, and I refuse to "show that we are civilized" as it has been demanded time and time again. >ANOTHER POINT (????) THAT YOU MADE IS THAT THERE ARE TWO COUNTRIES IN >CYPRUS EVENTHOUGH ONE IS NOT RECOGNISE BY ANYBODY. OFCOURSE THERE IS >ONE COUNTRY IN CYPRUS AND THIS IS CYPRUS. IF ANYBODY DOESN'T FEEL >LIKE MINGLE WITH ALL THE REST, HE/SHE SHOULD GET HIS/HER BELONGINGS >AND GO ELSEWHERE. IF A GREEK CYPRIOT DOESN'T LIKE IT HE SHOULD GO PROBABLY >TO GREECE TO "COOL OFF" AND IF A TURKISH COUNTERPART DOESN'T LIKE IT >HE SHOULD GO TO TURKEY. Why was there a coup then in Cyprus to join Greece? >ANY COUNTRY THAT OCCUPY ANOTHER COUNTRY IS A BARBARIC COUNTRY. Well, there goes the world, with the possible exception of Eskimos. >WE HAVE WAR AND OCCUPATION. WHY SHOULDN'T WE GREEK AND TURKS OF CYPRUS >WORK TOGETHER TO UNIFY OUR COUNTRY. That I agree with. I think Cyprus should not have two governments. >I DO NOT FEEL SATISFACTION OF CALLING TURKEY AS BARBARIC BUT YOU SEE >IT IS NOT ME THAT IS USING THIS TERM. Excuse me, I was not aware that someone else had used your account to post your former article. On a less sarcastic note, I think you are trying to imply that the "world" thinks Turks are barbaric. I beg to differ. >HOW ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO >THE CYPRUS PROBLEM AS A BEGINNING OF CHANGE IMAGE. How about trying to actively avoid emotional epithets as a beginning? At the risk of being repetitive, I am not trying to belittle your suffering. However, your suffering does not give ample cause to accuse all Turks, or to make it seem as if Turks were the only people engaging in warfare or occupation of neighborly countries. I sincerely hope the Cyprus problem does get resolved one day. regards Deniz Akkus dakkus@caf.mit.edu Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: mariou@ut-emx.UUCP (Mariou Barr) Date: 17 Jan 90 15:01 EST Date-Received: 17 Jan 90 15:38 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS (AND TO NIKOS SAHINIDIS) Message-ID: <23305@ut-emx.UUCP> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!mariou Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: University of Texas, Austin, Aerospace Engng Dept. References: <kZgzMYW00WB44995Zh@andrew.cmu.edu> Lines: 6 I fully agree with your opinion. There are some very nice Turkish chaps out there. Mariou Barr Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) Date: 17 Jan 90 17:03 EST Date-Received: 17 Jan 90 17:48 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS (AND TO NIKOS SAHINIDIS) Message-ID: <3957@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cica!tut.cis.ohio-st ate.edu!quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu!rcgl1.eng.ohio-state Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: Ohio State University Sender: news@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu Lines: 43 Answer to Deniz Akkus or to any person, Turkish or not who believes that the coup in 1974 to join Greece was done by the majority of the Cypriot!!! I would like to inform all of you that I disagreed with the coup and the vast majority of the Cypriots. I would say about 90% of the Cypriot strongly disagreed. May be 1% got involved and 9% approved. This wasn't a reason to continue occupy my country. Because I am sure your public media or your education system failed to explained you that the Cypriot (Greeks) DO NOT WANT TO JOIN Greece in becoming one country. CAN you understand that the vast majority of the Cypriots want independent country and I am one of them. The name of my country is CYPRUS not Greece not anything else. What I want is not to accuse all the Turkish nation or people. I want to accuse the people who are responsible for my personal sufferings and my country's sufferings. THESE TURKS ARE BARBARIC AND PRIMITIVES and any other word more strongly than barbaric. I never and I will never accuse all the Turks that are barbaric because I haven't being in Turkey to judge. Anybody who feels that I call names at him, he needs to make some thinking. If he approves what happen to a small country and continue to approve it then I am afraid he is barbaric. Because the word barbaric according to the Longman dictionary expain exactly the behaviour of the Turkish forces and the 1974 government of Turkey. (i.e. very cruel). Actually it was more than very cruel. I do understand that was a reason that Turkey invaded but why Turkey didn't try to bring justice to the island. How about like America invasion in Panama? How about the Turk army not to rape, avoid killing what about the 2000 missing people. How about trying to find the responsible of the coup and restore peace. This is acceptable behaviour because Turkey is a big country compare to Cyprus (the same with US Vs Panama). But you see the American brought justice in Panama and help the Panaminian people. Why Turkey didn't do the same if she was concerned about Cyprus? Cyprus will live because, we the people, want to live. How about getting all the invasion troops with all the rest of the armies and let us live our lives. People who killed and raped will be punish, and it doesn't matter from what country. We do not want killers and rapists in our country, we do not want thieves in our country. Our country, is not to be divided. Cyprus is ONE country, INDEPENTENT country. All the armies in Cyprus and the people that do not have any bussiness in Cyprus should get their belongings and go elsewhere. OPENED-MINDED CYPRIOT who is concerned about his country. Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6 5/10/89; site csd2.NYU.EDU From: boztas@nunki.usc.edu (Serdar Boztas) Date: 17 Jan 90 19:41 EST Date-Received: 17 Jan 90 19:44 EST Subject: Re: CYPRUS (AND TO NIKOS SAHINIDIS) Message-ID: <7452@chaph.usc.edu> Path: csd2!cmcl2!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!nunki.usc.edu!boztas Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA References: <3957@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: na Sender: news@chaph.usc.edu Lines: 64 In article <3957@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> DIAKOS@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Ioannis Diakos) writes: > I would like to inform all of you that I disagreed with the coup >and the vast majority of the Cypriots. I would say about 90% of the >Cypriot strongly disagreed. May be 1% got involved and 9% approved. I would agree with you on this, since the Turkish Cypriots did not approve of the 74 coup; It is very unfortunately very difficult to argue that the Cyprus problem started in 1974, as your article may seem to suggest... (i) Greek demands for Enosis are very old. (ii) Turkish demands for Taksim (Partition) are also very old. (iii) In both cases, the majority of the people (Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots respectively) did not strongly disagree with these causes, especially since the demands were expressed in fiery nationalistic language. (iv) Therefore, supporters of these demands got the upper hand. (v) When the Republic of Cyprus was formed, Archbishop Makarios repeatedly stated (as president of the Republic) that this was a victory on the way to Enosis. (vi) In 1963, Makarios gave his demands to amend the constitution, which would do away with the Turkish vice presidential veto power, among other things. (vii) This was not accepted and intercommunal troubles started. (viii) Between 1963-1974 Turkish Cypriots lived under encirclement, they were not given any of the benefits of citizenship, they were isolated and lived on direct aid from Turkey. (ix) Of course it could be argued that they were a breakaway minority and did not deserve services, but that only made them more dependent on Turkey. (x) The Greek Cypriot government was of the opinion that this situation could continue indefinitely and that since the world recognized them as the legitimate government, the problem would "settle itself" in Archbishop Makarios' famous words. (xi) Unfortunately, for the Greek Cypriots, the coup accelerated this gradual process and Turkey intervened. (xii) I think that the 1960 constitution was workable at the time, but was not successfull since neither community's leadership really wanted to implement it. >I do understand that was a reason that Turkey invaded but why Turkey >didn't try to bring justice to the island. How about like America >invasion in Panama? My friend, I cannot see how you are against Turkey in Cyprus but think Americans brought justice to Panama... >All the armies in Cyprus and the people that do not have any business >in Cyprus should get their belongings and go elsewhere. The first illegal army after 1960 republic was the Greek Cypriot National Guard, which was formed in spite of the 1960 constitution. And that is once again unfortunate for us all... Sincerely, Serdar Boztas PS: Please reply in calmer language and we can discuss and see our differences, and similarities.