SAKAS@CIUC2.UC.RCCN.PT (Vassilis SAKAS) (02/08/90)
O Xarilaos grafei: > O Fevrouarios einai "Black History Month" toulahiston stis HPA kai den kse- >ro posoi apo sas ehete akousei ti lene merikoi mavroi igetes (tonizo, merikoi). >Ishirizontai oti o politismos ksekinise ohi apo tin Ellada alla apo tin Afriki, >i Ellada san pio konta stin Afriki itan kapos anoteri tis loipis Evropis kai >danistike i eklepse tis Afrikanikes idees, kai i sighroni Disi sevetai tin El- >lada mono epeidi oi Ellines einai lefkoi. Metaksi allon theloun kai to Dia na >einai mavros. Iparhei kanenas istorikos sti lista na mas pei poso simantiki >itan i epirroi tis Egiptou kai genika tis Afrikis sto arheo elliniko pnevma; (Istorikos dev eimai, gia va ksekatharisw tnv thesn moy, kai gia ayto yparxei o fobos va petaksw kamia kotsava. Me kathe epifylaktikotnta loipov) Toys idioys isxyrismoys akoysa priv apo liges meres apo evav afrikavo edw pera. H alntheia brisketai (opws pavta) kapoy stnv "mesn": Eivai alntheia oti oi prwtoi "avwteroi" politismoi avaptyxthnkave stis Ivdies, Messopotamia kai Aigypto. Me tov kairo aytoi oi politismoi perasave mesw Krntns stnv npeirwtikn Ellada kai stnv ypoloipn Eyrwpn. O mythos Dia Eyrwpns gia paradeigma snmaivei kati tetoio (poly syvtoma): H Eyrwpn ntav korn evos Syrioy basilia poy tnv eide kai "lympnstnke" o Dias sta paralia tns syrias, metamorfwthnke se tayro kai tnv eklepse kai pngave stnv Krntn opoy oti emele egivev (kai etsi, Eyrwpn n npeiros, tayros to iero zwo stnv Mivwikn Krntn klp.) Episns oi perissoteroi apo toys Ellnves theoys kai mythoys exoyv toys avtistoixoys toys toso stnv Ivdoyikn oso kai Aigyptiakn thrnskeia, se kapoio snmeio ntav malista kai "avamiktoi", gia paradeigma stnv Libyn ypnrxe evas vaos afierwmevos toso stov Ellnva Dia oso kai stov Aigyptio Amwvv-Ra. Tha ntav omws sfalma va poyme oti "klepsame" toys mythoys twv ksevwv kai oti n "dikia mas" mythologia eivai apln avtigrafn. Perissotero swsto eivai, oti "pnrame" toys mythoys toys kai toys "ellnvikopoinsame", toys prosarmosame dnladn stis "dikies mas" syvntheies kai tropo skepsns. Ekei poy oi perissoteres avatolikes thrnskeies ntav "mystikopatheis" allaksave stnv Ellada kai givave pio "avoiktes" pio avthrwpives. Ayto eivai kati poy pera apo tnv thrnskeia tha mporoysame va metaferoyme gevikwtera stnv "skepsn" dnladn kai stis epistnmes. Tha ntav avaisxyvta egwistiko kai avakribes eav pisteyame oti priv apo toys arxaioys ellnves ypnrxe to Xaos. Sigoyra polla apo ta mathnmatika, astrovomia akoma kai filosofia exoyv tis rizes toys stoys paliwteroys politismoys kai syvexistnkav apo "emas". Aksiothaymasto omws gia toys Arxaioys Ellnves eivai n eleytheria toy pveymatos, dnladn n dyvatotnta toys va skeytovtai xwris "thrnskeytikoys foboys". Ayto ntav to spoydaiotero bonthnma poy toys ekave va proxwrnsoyv toso poly kai va avaptyksoyv se tetoio megalo bathmo tis epistnmes tis opoies fysika arxika "pnrave" apo aigyptioys, ivdoys klp. Oi isxyrismoi twv afrikavwv eivai swstoi kai lathos sygxrovws: Swstoi sto oti apo tnv afrikn nrthave idees poy syvexistnkav apo toys Arxaioys Ellnves. Lathos giati otav leme Afrikn evvoyme boreia afrikn, Aigypto kai Libyn prwtarxika, kai oxi to ypoloipo tns npeiroy. Lathos episns giati agvooyv toys Mesopotamioys kai toys Ivdoys oi opoioi epireasav kai aytoi toso toys boreioafrikavoys oso kai toys Ellnves. Kai sto katw katw, eav snmera gvwrizoyme tov Pythagora kai oxi kapoiov afrikavo poy "ntav prwtos" (opws akoysa va isxyrixetai kapoios teleytaia) avnkei stnv moira toy kosmoy: O Kolombos avakalypse tnv vea npeiro, o Ameriko Bespoytsi omws tns edwse to ovoma toy. Kai sto katw katw, snamsia megaln dev exei poios "skeftnke" prwtos to pythagoreio thewrnma, snmasia exei oti to exoyme kai mporoyme va kavoyme tnv doyleia mas. Ayta ta oliga, Filakia se oloys kai oles, Vassilis (Coimbra) YG: To movo ellnviko biblio poy exw mazi moy edw stnv Portogalia eivai "H ellnvikn Mythologia" toy Nikoy Tsiforoy. To syvistw avepify- lakta se oloys, to thewrw sav idaviko biblio gia mia eyxaristn eisagwgn stoys arxaioys mythoys, av kai apo "epistnmovikns" apopsns mallov xwlaivei. Gia meva pavtos eivai to idaviko biblio gia to brady priv tov ypvo, to apoxwrtnrio klp.
kpstamat@RODAN.ACS.SYR.EDU (02/09/90)
Vassilh to biblio tou Tsiforou pou sou sunistw kai to exw diabasei
kai egw den xerw poses fores einai "Ta paidia ths piatsas". Ekei
0a koufa0eis sto geloio kai 0a koimh0eis hsuxa to bradu...
Kwstas StamatakhsSAKAS@CIUC2.UC.RCCN.PT (Vassilis SAKAS) (02/09/90)
Eyxaristw Kwsta gia tnv symboyln, peri ta paidia tns piatsas. Fysika to exw diabasei to biblio, opws kai polla akoma, alla ayta ta biblia poy moy aresoyv apo tov Tsiforo eivai ta "istorika" toy; syvdyazoyv to gelio me tnv mathnsn kai eivai etsi idiaitera eyxarista. Parathetw erga Nik. Tsiforoy (olo kai kapoio mporei va mas leipei): Ellnvikn Mythologia Milwv Firikns Stayrofories Emeis kai oi Fragkoi Ta remalia nrwes (milaei gia toys megaloys thalassoporoys) Ta paidia tns piatsas Paramythia pisw apo ta kagkela H pivakothnkn twv nlithiwv Ta paliopaida ta atithasa Avthrwpoi kai avthrwpakia Ellnvikn kroyaziera H Athva snmera - Kroyazieres mesa stnv istoria Xrovografnmata Istoria tns Agglias Istoria tns Gallias Istoria twv Hvwmevwv Politeiwv Istoria tns Athnvas Biblika xamogela Omorfn Thessalovikn Stnb to xaroymevo katharma Mystikes etairies O Gkioyliber stnv xwra twv Gigavtwv O Gkioyliber stnv xwra twv vavwv H Guvaika Koyrsaros (avtigrameva apo tnv teleytaia selida tns Mythologias) Dyo paraklnseis: Ta paidia poy grafoyv poinmata sto diktyo (kai poly kala kavoyv) mnpws tha mporoysave va steiloyve kai ekeivo toy Kabbadia (moy diafeygei o titlos) "Xorepse pavw sto ftero toy karxaria...." n to allo "avemise gia mia stigmn to mpolero..." poy ta pethymisa.... (paraggelia sav va leme). Kai kati akoma: Evas gvwstos edw pera thelei va kavei mia ekpompn sto radiofwvo gia tov Iavvn Xennakis (prospathnsa va tov metapeisw alla tipote aytos...) kai me rwtnse eav tha mporoysa va toy brw tipote plnrofories (exei kamposes o avthrwpos alla tha nthele kai alla) toso biografikes oso kai peri tns texvikns toy, isws kai tipote gwvsta toy erga. Gevika givovtai dekta ta pavta, se opoiadnpote glwssa (kai Fax exoyme..). Avte eftase n Paraskeyn paidia, Vassilis (Coimbra)
PETROPOULOS@NUACC.BITNET (02/10/90)
Kala auta pou les Vassili (Coloumbra) alla gia pes mas... Oi Aiguptioi thewrountai Afrikanoi ? Twra to an o politismos ksekinhse apo yhn Afrikh nomizw oti einai eukolo na elex0ei : As riksoume mia matia sthn shmerinh ths katastash...Den nomizw na diaferei kai para polu apo thn katastash pou epikratouse prin 3.000 xronia. E0vika Uperhfanos, Petros (Northwestern)