SAKAS@CIUC2.UC.RCCN.PT (Vassilis SAKAS) (02/12/90)
Paidia,
gia osoys dev diabazoyv to sct: o Martillo ksavafavnke!!!!! Kai to
eixame pethymisei to palikari, va mas ksavapei pali ekeives tis
parafraseis tns istorias, tnv diastreylwsn tns "alntheias" kai va mas
bgalei apo ta royxa mas......
Parathetw to myvnma toy apo to sct, xwris sxolia fysika.....:
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* Article Nr.: 1676
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Xref: neon soc.culture.turkish:1676 soc.culture.greek:2540
Path: neon!shelby!bloom-beacon!mintaka!yale!husc6!m2c!jjmhome!martillo
From: martillo@jjmhome.UUCP (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: setting the truth straight
Summary: Ecrasez l'Islam! Sapere aude!
Buddhatvam yoshidyonisamsrtam. Vahty Muhtaram ast.
Evolution or Devolution.
Message-ID: <5378@jjmhome.UUCP>
Date: 10 Feb 90 18:22:10 GMT
References: <9002081815.AA26732@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU>
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Lines: 44
In article <9002081815.AA26732@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU>,
DK0A%LEHIGH.BITNET@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU ("Dimitrios Kouvatsos") writes:
> Gentlemen, I really don't understand how is that that someone who
> just said that different peoples are at different stages of cultural
> evolution at a particular time must be accused as racist. It is
> quite apparent that I am not - I would never consider some indivi-
> dual superior to another because of race, nationality, whatever.
> Such a plainly evil idea has nothing to do with my statement that
> 15th century Turks were behind Greeks in cultural evolution or
> with the incombatibility of an "islamic state" - NOT of Islam as
> religion - or even of a "Christian fundamendalist state" (such as
> some envision in Mr. Mark's celebrated America) with a Western
> Democracy. I find this a sickening attempt to withdraw attention
> from the true issues. I am sorry but I have no time to continue
> such a kind of debate.
> Sincerely,
> Dimitris Kouvatsos dk0a@lehigh.bitnet
Of course, you have to be more explicit in your terms. I could
argue quite effectively that the Byzantine Empire was clearly
devolving culturally, politically, socially and militarily since
the 9th century and probably the devolution began earlier.
Certainly by the 15th century Byzantine culture had nothing
to do with Hellinism whatsoever. From the 12th century onwards
the center of Hellenism is the Islamic world which had absorbed
Hellenism with the conquest of Hellenistic centers in
Anatolia, Syria and Egypt. By the 15th century Turkish Muslims
were the main carriers of Hellenistic culture. Now if by
some ridiculous accident the Byzantines, who were basically nasty
people, had conquered Anatolia and Syria in the 15th century there
is no reason whatsoever to believe they would have treated conquered
Muslim people any better than the Muslims treated conquered Byzantines.
In any case, Hellenism was a social/political/cultural dead-end.
The Modern world is the direct descendent of the practical and sceptical
Roman civilization. Now many of the elite of Roman affected a fancy
for Greek culture, but it was just a fad and a way a separating the
elite from the Roman masses. Really, there is no group in history
which was ever more justifiably secure in their social/political/economic
abilities than the Romans of the silver and golden age. The Greeks
were better than the Romans at metaphysics which is hardly surprising
because the Romans were practical people.
Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo the Damned
(Nafis Ahmed recently consigned my sould to Hell.)
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Poios kakos toy eipe re va paei stov diaolo?
Filakia kai kaln bdomada,
Vassilis (Coloympra, moy arese ayto....)