notes@asgb.UUCP (04/10/84)
The previous note appearing with this login from our site was not the opinion of our notesfile administration staff. The official notesfile administration staff (me) has no official opinion on usage, or on Mark Horton. Speaking for myself, I wish to voice no opinion on the matter, having not read either group for a period of nearly a year. Kris A. Kugel Burroughs Advanced Systems Group Boulder, Colorado
mp@whuxle.UUCP (Mark Plotnick) (04/12/84)
I always thought the network was a democracy; if you disagree with a statement made in a net.all newsgroup, such as "move this discussion to net.xxx", you can post a followup saying "no, don't move to net.xxx, keep it here". And if you don't include net.flame in your newsgroup list, I think that people may give your opinion due consideration. Meta-discussions are often fairly useful; about half of all new newsgroups have started as results of meta-discussions in existing newsgroups. Asking that people discuss differences via netmail rather than by net-wide postings, and then not giving a valid electronic mail address (I don't think Kris Kugel, your notesfile administrator, is really interested in reading mail that was meant for you) doesn't help your argument a whole lot. Mark
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (04/12/84)
> A request to net users (such as Mark Horton) : Hmmm. I don't know, but isn't that a little like saying "a request to Tektronix employees (such as Howard Vollum) :" (Founder of Tektronix) > The flames that have been directed to a myriad of users requesting that > they move a discussion from one group to another, due to the ALLEGED > improper use of a news group, do not belong in... [etc.] > ... The posting of a request to move a discussion is as > inappropriate as a posting of a message to the wrong group. Yeah? Says you and who else? > Excercise some net maturity. *You* might exercise a little more net maturity by signing your article. > This net > should not be an outlet for self-proclaimed traffic cops who administer > justice in public. physician, heal thyself. > Not to be hypocritical, this message could have been sent to the individual > offenders. However, this has been posted in hopes to put an end to this > sort of nonsense once and for all. Why do you suppose people post the kind of articles you're complaining about? Duhh...maybe it's in hopes of ending some other kind of nonsense once and for all, like, "Say, is Joe Blow out there somewhere? How do I get to ubangivax?" on net.general. or a tenth go-around of the abortion argument in net.women. I suppose that next, we're going to have to endure another spate of complaints along the line of "Gee, my pinky sure gets tired hitting the "n" key - why don't you all just submit articles I'm interested in and nothing else?" sick and tired of being sick and tired, Jeff Winslow
mlh@abnjh.UUCP (M. L. Holt) (04/12/84)
The net os NOT a democracy! It is an anarchy. People do what they want to, and if they're too nasty, the group dies. mike holt abnjh!mlh
sr@u1100a.UUCP (Steven Radtke) (04/12/84)
_
I hope we don't often see Mark Horton offered as a counter-example for
appropriate behavior on the net. I think that he bends over backwards
to try to get a consensus of opinion before taking action. It has
been my experience that continued rational, polite behavior in the
face of a horde of conflicting demands is exhausting. Mark has
undertaken a messy job and I would guess that he does this with
substantial amounts of his own time, rather than having this job
assigned to him by his employer. Even though he is a self-appointed
guardian, he is doing well at defining his function and I appreciate that he
takes the time to try to keep a semblance of order. I don't always respond to
articles I feel are improperly posted, because I rely on other people to do so.
I feel that usually it is a tiresome chore, about as interesting as reading a
man page aloud to a user who is either too dumb or too lazy to do this for
her/himself.
The net is a strange creature and is experiencing
tremendous growth. Mark shows respect for its history and traditions,
and foresight in anticipating its needs tomorrow. He brings considerable
talent to these tasks. I think the net would have great difficulty if
he and the other key individuals just let the thing drop.
I have never met Mark, but I wanted him to hear a note of appreciation.
Perhaps there should be a newsgroup for anyone who wants to do the same,
because I'm sure that a lot of USENET readers agree.
signed
Mark's mother ( no not really, :-) )
signed
Steven Radtke ( really ! )
{houxm,ihnp4,pyux*,abnjh}!u1100a!srjsq@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman) (04/12/84)
USENET is not a democracy; it is an anarchy. A democracy requires
some way of enforcing the will of the majority. An anarchy requires
some to take responsibility for persuading others to do the right
thing, whatever that is. Of course whoever tries to determine what
the right thing is and get it done will get as much gratitude as Mark
Horton seems to be getting.
--
John Quarterman, CS Dept., University of Texas, Austin, Texas
jsq@ut-sally.ARPA, jsq@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsqjcz@ncsu.UUCP (John Carl Zeigler) (04/13/84)
<> Oh my god! I am following up to net.general!!! Look, you cannot 'guide' the USENET anymore than you can guide Marde Gras. At most you can plan events, specify times and places, and hope the streets hold up. Wether or not things that happen on and to USENET will cause 'self-destruction' is inmaterial. uucp is out there, news versions A, A+, B2.x, and notesfiles exist, modems exist, and AT&T (and friends) still plugs along. There will not be any 'self-destruction' on the network. It may change, even radically, as time goes by but never will it disappear. (It may disappear from YOUR site, but never altogether.) It may also spilt into seperate networks; after a while the parts may rejoin. Don't be so picky, so finicky, about how things are going. Just sit back and enjoy the free-for-all of ideas and opinions. If you are really concerned about peoples' behaviour on the network, open a 'miss manners' type of news group. All you stuffed shirts could get togther and decide how you want the rest of us to behave. I will still eat chicken with my fingers. Frankly, all this talk of submit here, don't submit there, write articles this way, that way, etc. smack of censorship. Let people enjoy, explore, have fun with the network, (in between compilations, of course). The way some of you sound makes me think you do nothing all day but read and reply to news. Do you really have that big a need to be heard? Do you really think what you are saying is that important? Go easy on yourselves, and the rest of us, don't take the network so seriously. Let it go however it goes. If something happens and you have to give up your access, so? In the end, (which I have come to at last) just remember what a great toy this thing is, and dont get so uptight about how other people play with it. (sorry to be so long, but if you are worried about phone bills, hang up the phone. The net will go on with twenty new nodes tomorrow.) John Carl Zeigler North Carolina State University mcnc!ncsu!jcz