Jack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe Of 129/26) (01/06/90)
Index Number: 6153
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
[I have not gatewayed the earlier messages with this same subject
line since they had to do with the Fidonet Silenttalk conference
distribution. However, with this article, the content
starts switching to some discussion about Alexander Bell and
the deaf. Bill McGarry]
Hi Laurie,
Well, anyhow, SilentTalk is almost here. There has been some problem
getting it going on backbone, but Stu and Ann are working on it and
I'm sure they will have it resolved soon. I agree it's a special
treat to be in at the beginning of a conference. Especially one like
SilentTalk that has such a great potential.
This conference is special because of the way it expands the scope
of telecommunications for folks whose disABILITY limited its usefulness
before. You know, ole Al Bell was really trying to help hearing impaired
people when he invented his infernal instrument. Wonder if he ever
realized what a corner he backed us into.
Be patient, and ask your SysOp and the hearing impaired users in the
Bay Area to hang in there. I'm confident our moderators will have
the startup problems worked out real soon and have SilentTalk on
backbone.
LW> by the way, can you explain what 'backbone' means?
I'm sure Stu or Ann or your SysOp could give you a better explanation
of the backbone than I can, Laurie. But, as I understand it, FidoNet
consists of BBSs called "nodes" which are grouped into local "networks".
The nodes making up a network exchange mail packets on an established
schedule with one or more "hubs". The hubs in turn feed the national
and international conference messages - the "backbone" conferences -
to "regional hubs". The regional hubs pass the conference messages to
each other to move them across the US and Canada. This is the "backbone"
as I understand it, but I'm sure I'm oversimplifying.
It works, 'cause other conferences go all over North America via
backbone, and even to Europe and Austrailia. Prior to becoming a
backbone echo conference, SilentTalk was passed directly between
the boards that carried it by LD phone calls.
Jack.
... HAPPY NEW DECADE!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgLaurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (01/06/90)
Index Number: 6154 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > treat to be in at the beginning of a conference. Especially > one like > SilentTalk that has such a great potential. > Amen. > before. You know, ole Al Bell was really trying to help > hearing impaired > people when he invented his infernal instrument. Wonder > if he ever Speaking of "ole Al Bell", I am not very fond of him. Do you know that he was the Deaf community's enemy? When I was in oral school of the deaf, we used to praise him for his work and his being part of the founding of the oralism. Over the recent years, I read several history books about him. Found out that he wasn't what he was cracked up to be. One of the things I learned about him which changed my opinion of him is that he tried to have the law passed...to forbid the intermarriage between the deaf people. I can go on and on with more details about his actions which hurt the deaf poeple for over a century, but that will take a book. So, I suggest if you haven't done so, read a book called '/When the Mind Hears' by Harlan Lane. it really opened and shocked my senses!! Thanks for explaining what backbone means. I get it now. Smile, Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Stu.Turk@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Stu Turk) (01/06/90)
Index Number: 6155
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
LW> Speaking of "ole Al Bell", I am not very fond of him. Do you know
LW> that he was the Deaf community's enemy? When I was in oral school of
LW> [....]
LW> up to be. One of the things I learned about him which changed my
LW> opinion of him is that he tried to have the law passed...to forbid the
LW> intermarriage between the deaf people. I can go on and on with more
=
Did the book say _why_ he thought intermarrage between deaf people should
be forbidden?
Remember, there are types of deafnesses that are inherated and back in
Bell's time, there was little information available on birth control to
prevent more children from being born deaf.
Stu
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Stu.Turk
Internet: Stu.Turk@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe Of 129/26) (01/06/90)
Index Number: 6156
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
LW> Speaking of "ole Al Bell", I am not very fond of him. Do you
LW> know that he was the Deaf community's enemy?
I believe he was mostly Gallaudet's bitter rival, and that ol' hatchet
ain't buried yet!
LW> he tried to have the law passed...to forbid the intermarriage
LW> between the deaf people.
I think he believed there was a connection between hearing impairment
and "feeble mindedness". Ron R. has an interesting post on 'Abled that
relates to this. When Groce was researching her book on the deaf on
Martha's Vineyard she asked one older person if he knew any feebleminded
people who lived in the town. Given 7 or 8 names, she checked and found
no evidence at all of retardation in these people. Checking further she
discovered she had been given the names of all the registered democrats!
LW> . . . read a book called '/When the Mind Hears' by Harlan Lane.
I looked for it in the library here, and even checked the microfiche of
all the other librarys in the county, but no luck. Just another book
by Lane about a Wild Boy in Burundi. I'll look again the next time
I'm back in civilization.
Jack.
... Live, from Beaver County, it's . . . .
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe.Of.129/26@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgLaurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (01/16/90)
Index Number: 6238 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > Did the book say _why_ he thought intermarrage between > deaf people should be forbidden? > Remember, there are types of deafnesses that are inherated > and back in Bell's time, there was little information > available on birth control to prevent more children from > being born deaf. Yes, the papers did mention the reasons for Bell's fears...one of them, deafness heredity, was cited as a main reason. Do you see anything wrong with seeing any more children being born deaf? I don't. Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Stu.Turk@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Stu Turk) (01/16/90)
Index Number: 6239
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
LW> Do you see anything wrong with seeing any more children being born
LW> deaf? I don't.
=
Uh, I'm not sure... Perhaps it's different for you but I can neither
lipread anymore or follow signs (I am legally blind as well as near deaf)
and the computer screen or writing is my main means of communication. I
don't know that I would deliberatly subject a child to this...
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Stu.Turk
Internet: Stu.Turk@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgRon.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg) (01/16/90)
Index Number: 6243
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
LW>> he tried to have the law passed...to forbid the intermarriage
LW>> between the deaf people.
Bell undertook familial studies to try to link congenital deafness with
heredity, as did many others. THey eventually gave up on direct
genetic links, since this research preceded Mendel's experiments and
his explanation of recessive and dominant genes.
I don't think Bell was an evil man. He was obsessed with the deaf and
his love for his deaf wife. He truly believed they could be taught to
talk to help them be a part of the greater society. I think he may
have been misguided, but not through bad intent. He was working from
love with the best knowledge of his time.
I think much of the pain and suffering may have been caused by his
legacy, and the fact that for so many years people took his word as
gospel, just because he was Bell. The same is true with Freud. We
can't question the demigods, can we?
The sins of the succeeding scholars and educators, unable to think for
themselves should not reflect on the work of the originators. Bell's
work was impressive and enlightening for his time.
-rsr-
... It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick-D. Barry's Mom
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Ron.Rothenberg
Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgRon.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg) (01/16/90)
Index Number: 6244
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
LW> Do you see anything wrong with seeing any more children being
LW> born deaf? I don't.
Perhaps not now, but conditions were considerably different for the
deaf in Bell's time. Don't judge historical figures by your own eras
standards.
Henry VIII was a terrible sexist pig!
-rsr-
... It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick-D. Barry's Mom
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Ron.Rothenberg
Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgLaurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (01/17/90)
Index Number: 6272 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > I think much of the pain and suffering may have been caused > by his > legacy, and the fact that for so many years people took > his word as > gospel, just because he was Bell. The same is true with > Freud. We > can't question the demigods, can we? > OK. OK. You have hit a nail into the head! I take your point. Now, when I come down to think, I do see what you are saying is true because in my oral school for the deaf, all the teachers really thought the world of Bell. In fact, they made us read stories about him, etc. Well, thank you for enlightening me about Bell and his reasons for his work. Smile, Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (01/17/90)
Index Number: 6273 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > Henry VIII was a terrible sexist pig! > (smile) I get it. > LW> Do you see anything wrong with seeing any more children being > LW> born deaf? I don't. My point is that I don't see anything wrong with any deaf (or HI) child or adult. They are just as normal as anyone except that they only speak different language. Only the problem is that if a deaf child is born into a hearing family. This child would face more hardship and pain in his hearing family because they usually haave hard time accepting his deafness. Also the parents tend to keep looking for a cure for the deafness....thus prolonging the delay of acceptance. I know of many deaf families, whose deafness heredity runs in generations, and they take deafness in stride. They don't grieve over their child's loss of hearing upon birth. They love and accept the child whatever he is. That is my point. I have seen too many hearing families that alienated their deaf member from normal everyday life because they don't want to learn sign language, and because they believe that the deaf person should learn their language first. Well, I came from such a family and not once did I had any real communication with my hearing parents until I'd become an adult!! My parents forbid me to sign and made me take speech therapy for more than 12 years. Do you see what I mean?? Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (02/04/90)
Index Number: 6587 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > deal of time with their 3 HI children). Coming from a military > family, I attended public schools all over the world and > didn't have any problems adjusting. I think that is why > I believe so strongly in mainstreaming as I feel children Since your parents have been exposed to the hearing disability of their children, it is one main factor that has helped make it easier for them to accept it. I agree that mainstreaming is important for deaf children. You are lucky in one sense for having been exposed to a variety environment during your childhood. It made you more accepting of other worlds. > I'm also aware that there are more deaf children now than > there were when I was a child and I've also noticed that > the parents of these children today want their children > to be exposed to the hearing world. Yes, this is so true that there are more deaf children now than it was back in my days too. And some parents of today are learning to communicate better through sign language with their deaf children. However, I know of many other parents who don't bother to communicate with the children. How would you like it if there is a big family reunion and they all are hearing, you would feel pretty left out. That is what it is like for most deaf children of hearing families It really cut deep and leaves some scars. Let me explain how it was for me (even though you don't believe in sign language). When I was in oral school for the deaf, all of those deaf children, including me, used sign language to interact with each other, but only behind the teachers' backs. It was same thing at home, too. My parents forbid me the use of sign language at home. Funny, I was happy back then for I was pretty naive and thought that the hearing authorities knew what they were doing. They led me to think that being deaf was wrong and that to talk and act like hearing would make me more normal in their eyes. As I turned into a teenager, I had come to a point where I was self conscious about my being different from the hearing community. So, I avoided interacting with the deaf community because I naively believed that those deaf people were inferior due to their inability to speak. Then I met and married at age 15 to a man who was 13 years older than me. He was prejudiced at anyone different from the normal majority (the whites and "normal"). But like I say before I was very open and naive. I thought he was a greatest guy... When my first child (son) was born, I wanted to teach him some sign language because I felt it was important for us to communicate well and also for him to accept other deaf people. However, Tom (ex-hubby) discouraged it, for he believed that he and our three children don't have the responsibility to learn sign language in order to include me in their conversation. So, for 17 years of our marriage, I was pretty isolated and had no friends at all. Every day at our mealtimes, I couldnt even understand or keep up what the children and their father were discussing about. If I inquired about it, they would say "Oh, it is not important, or oh never mind." For 15 years, I didn't sign at all because we moved all over U.S. and I didn't come across any deaf person during those years. After my youngest child enrolled in kindergarten, I enrolled in the community college to complete my high school education. That was back in '83. There it was my first time that I met an interpreter. At first, I read her lips during the lectures, but it became too tiring on my eyes. So, I took a crash course of sign language, in order for me to understand the interpreter's signing in the classes. In the sign language class, as I was learning to sign, it all came back to me. I broke down and cried because Ii felt like I was finally back home in my old deaf world. All those years I had forgotten my deafness and was pretty unhappy from being so isolated and lonely. Well, to make this short, Tom and I have been divorced two years now. Needless to say, the last one year has been one of the most exciting and happiest year for me. I have met many deaf people who have shown me that they are really normal like the hearing ones except that they speak different language. Most of them hold realy good and high paying jobs. The point of this is that I am really proud to be deaf. I am no longer trying to be like hearing, even though I still have some old hearing traits, but they are not bad habits. I also accept that I may not be 100% deaf member of the community. The middle world is fun for me. I like it both ways. I admit that I have some deep scars from the past interaction with hearing poeple, including my ex-hubby. If I am in a family reunion, old pain of feeling alone or isolated is still there. I have talked about it with my mom, sister, and dad. They have taken some sign language courses the past two years. We have grown closer now. Back then they wouldn't accept the deaf ways and they took my speech and lipreading skills for granted by thinking I can keep up with their conversation with others. One of the reasons why I feel it is so IMPORTANT for parents to learn sign language is that it would help make children feel part of the family in everyday life. There are some programs that gear towards to parents who want to make the deaf children feel included in the family life---not alienated. Sign language is one of the basic ingredients in the programs. Well, Ann, there is one thing that you need to understand ...there are many deaf people who have been psychological scarred from their upbringing. and this is one of the reasons why they tend to keep hearing people or anyone who dont know sign language from their community. We all need to be more understanding and compassionate to them, for they have had it rough. Sometimes, I can be cynical when I hear some hearing persons saying they wanted to do something "for" deaf people. It is similar to the white people saying what they think is good for black people. Get it? Well, well...this is awfully long message. I just felt a need to point those things out by letting you know what it is like in the deaf world. For centuries, we have had those telling us what to do and making feel inferior. Don't worry if you don't agree because I am pretty much open minded person, even though I tend to be opinionated. (grin) -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org