Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (02/02/90)
Index Number: 6572 > doesn't affect the primary communication mode between the > blind and > the non-handicapped: Speech. > > The only reason more deaf people are bigoted about who > is and who > isn't a Member Of The Culture is because deafness FORCED > that shift > in primary communications from speech to sign language. > No > surprises there. > Yes, good observation! Thanks for pointing this out because it is sometimes hard for me to explain what it is like in the deaf world since I am deaf myself and I have a speech. I tend to think my world as normal, not much difference from the hearing world. But with your observation, I am now reminded again and again that it is the language that separates the deaf from the majority. However, there is one more point that I would like to add. It is also a sense of being "isolated" in a hearing society that causes the deaf people to seek others in common --deafness and language. Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen *) (02/04/90)
Index Number: 6603
Hi,
Reading your message regarding how the lack of common language
affects and can isolate the deaf from the so called "hearing
world".
Hey, you know what? I don't know about youse guys, but, I am
getting really tired of that expression "The hearing world!" Damn
it, this is everyones world, tough as it may be on some of us!
I think if anyone takes the time to look at how deaf people have
been treated by society in the past, it is easy to understand how a
deaf person can come to feel isolated in this world, how a deaf
person might cme to resent hearing persons. In short, the isolation
factor can be understood as a phenomena, but there comes a time
when walls have to come down and bridges have to be crossed if
there is ever going to be any understanding and progress.
Also, I think all of us, human beings, seek out those with whom we
have "something" in common. It is even how most of us come to our
more intimate relationships. This is not something peculiar to deaf
people at all. In fact, I would venture to say that "most of us"
are here in ABLED in order to be with those with whom we feel a
certain bond. Always, we will tend to bond into smaller groups
which will havve a "Them" outside of it. I think it is human
nature.
However, I don't think of that as "isolation". I feel the
individual(s) choose isolation (for whatever internal / external
variable ) reason as a defensive or even offensive withdrawal.
If a deaf or hearing impaired person rebuffs or chooses to snub a
hearing persons attempt at sincere communication because he or she
has no tolerance for the others possible lack of skills or
hesitancy, then tha deaf person has chosen to isolate. I think this
is a whole different matter than simply just wanting to be with
like persons.
Of course, I realize that it may be the deaf persons inadequate
feelings about themselves that might cause him or her to turn away
from hearing people.
To me, it always seems to boil down to two things yet, the lack or
apathy of many hearing people to bother being concerned about
communicating with deaf people and those deaf people who want to
assume that all hearing people think that deaf people are somehow
inferior or retarded or some such other thing. Obviously, neither
of these things are true.
But, here I am rambling on and on! I guess that is what comes from
not being one nor the other! Always, it's education.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen.*
Internet: Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgncas@cbnewsj.ATT.COM (Clifford A. Stevens, Jr) (02/09/90)
Index Number: 6609 In article <9850@bunker.UUCP>, rudy@cbnewsj.ATT.COM (avram r vener) writes: > Index Number: 6474 > In article <9792@bunker.UUCP> Chita.Cazares@f114.n202.z1.fidonet.org writes: > >Index Number: 6424 > >call it). It has seemed to me they are some sort of elite within the > >disAbled community. I've asked about this and the commonest answer is > (This response is from a friend who was peering over my shoulder > -Rudy Vener) > i m just curious if u are deaf or from what disability group if > any you belong q Does this mean that it's not OK to post if you are not disabled? I posted a message several months ago where I suggested we do like soc.women and not allow posts by any males/uninjured. But I was just kidding (Forgot the :-)!). Actually one thing I really enjoy is educating the uninjured, so I hope I misintrepreted! ------------ Give me a break, I'm brain damaged! Cliff Stevens MT1E228 att!cbnewsj!ncas (201)957-3902
Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (02/12/90)
Index Number: 6670 > Hey, you know what? I don't know about youse guys, but, > I am getting really tired of that expression "The hearing > world!" Damn it, this is everyones world, tough as it may > be on some of us! Sorry (grin). It is just that it is how I look through my perspective of the "other" world. Even though I have spend most of my life among the hearing society, I still feel to this day that they are "aliens". This is not meant as offensive, but as my personal statement of fact. > this world, how a deaf person might cme to resent hearing > persons. In short, the isolation factor can be understood > as a phenomena, but there comes a time when walls have to > come down and bridges have to be crossed if there is ever > going to be any understanding and progress. > Yes, it is also my heartfelt goal. I think the time is coming soon as I have noticed more poeple are taking sign language course as a foriegn language. And at Chico State, we have a meeting for the sign language students and deaf students at least twice a year. "Isolation" is not always by the deaf's choice. It is the language of the majority that isolates the deaf. How can we expect the deaf to keep up with the hearing if they can't hear the spoken language?? -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Ann.Stalnaker@f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (02/12/90)
Index Number: 6682 > Hey, you know what? I don't know about youse guys, but, > I am getting really tired of that expression "The hearing > world!" Damn it, this is everyones world, tough as it may > be on some of us! > > I think if anyone takes the time to look at how deaf people > have been treated by society in the past, it is easy to > understand how a deaf person can come to feel isolated in > this world, how a deaf person might cme to resent hearing > persons. In short, the isolation factor can be understood > as a phenomena, but there comes a time when walls have to > come down and bridges have to be crossed if there is ever > going to be any understanding and progress. > Hi, Vixen...hope you don't mind my butting in here but I'd like to say I agree wholeheartedly with you about "hearing world" and "deaf world." But, sometimes we have to use those terms to explain a few things to others who are not aware of the barriers that hamper us. As you know, I don't like labels any more than you do. I feel we all need to mingle together as a whole in this BIG world but there will always be several who will refuse to remove the walls and bridges. So many seem to be intimidated by society and it takes people like you and several others as well as me to show them that we can fit in with everyone else. I've never been hampered by society as I refuse to let that happen to me and partly due to the fact I was raised in the "hearing" environment. (I know...labeling again but I couldn't think of a better word to use! (sheepish grin)) I love being involved in this echo and enjoy the closeness we all seem to have here. We come from all walks of life and share a very common bond but what a wonderful feeling it is. I hope we all continue to stay as close as we have for a long time to come. I think we can educate many with our positive attitudes. You think you're ramblin' on and on...look at me today! ;-) -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (02/13/90)
Index Number: 6733
V*> Yes, I wish I could get the author of this system to make it
V*> Baudot capable so that the non ascii capable TDD's could call
V*> as well.
It's been estimated that over 85% of the TDDs in use today are BAUDOT
only, since TDDs predated the advent of ASCII. And it will be years
and years before that changes significantly. The blasted things last
too long, especially the old ones. There are even a few KSR33 TTYs
still clattering away.
Good luck with your board, and keep trying to get SilentTalk.
All the best.
Jack.
... I never listen!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgVixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen *) (02/13/90)
Index Number: 6736
Hi,
Well, my feelings about expressions like "the deaf world" and "the
hearing world" bother me only because as far as I know, we all only
live on one planet. Now, I am not deaf, so I have to admit to
having no conception of belonging to the deaf world. I only know
"the world". Of course, it could be pointed out that since I am HI
with "hearing" that I automatically belong to the hearing world and
might be considered ignorant.
The thing is, I am blind, but I don't live in "The blind world",
nor for that matter, have I ever heard of "The blind world."
Basically, all my point really is, is that I believe that "The
world" belongs every bit as much to the deaf as it does to the
hearing, seeing, blind, or anyone else.
This is not to deny "deaf culture", but simply to realize that
"culture" need not be an Isolation from the rest of the world and
other cultures. If we take down the walls and build bridges, then
culture becomes something to share and enrich with.
While even one as ignorant as I am about deaf culture is able to
understand some of the resentment, anger and even sometimes a sense
of shame on the part of some, that has contributed to the past and
present isolation of the deaf culture, it seems plain that the more
severe and extremist isolationists are only denying themselves
their inherent right in to all of society, not just within thier
own peer group. (Boy, was that ever a long sentence!)
Not to let hearing people off the hook, there is much work to be
done here as well. More awareness, more education. While I favour
the opportunity for TC for all deaf and HI people, I also find some
annoyance with hearing people who seem hell bent on finding ways to
make deaf to hearing communication ever always easy on the hearing
person. Granted, majority may rule, but whatever happened to the
common courtesy of respecting people enough to meet them halfway?
I know I am looking at all of this with an Idealist bent, but
perhaps such is my nature. I do realize this is a complex matter
and there are a lot of feelings here and as you say, there are
those who would prefer to keep the walls up. There are only two
things I know for sure, if the world blows up, we will "all" blow
up, deaf and hearing alike! Also, if we continue to isolate from
each other, the myths and misconceptions will continue.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen.*
Internet: Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgVixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen *) (02/13/90)
Index Number: 6740
Hi Laurie,
I understand what you are saying regarding your personal statement
about being a deaf person among hearing persons (Ala the aliens are
here, the aliens are here!) and I understand that there is a deaf
culture which has its rights to exist and to do so proudly. My
point was not really that deaf "culture" should disolve among the
hearing (for I don't believe it should!) to meld together as one
identity, but simply that we all, hearing and deaf realize that the
"world" is one place and it belongs every bit as much to the deaf
as it does to the hearing. If ya see what I am getting at. It is
only the "chosen" isolation that bothers me from those who would
prefer that a wall of misconception, misunderstanding and antipathy
remain upright between deaf and hearing people.
Also, from my limited knowledge of society and deaf culture, I
would agree whole-heartedly that it is not necessarily the deaf who
have chosen isolation and that there has been a great lack of
concern or even interest on the part of hearing people towards the
recognition of the needs and abilities of deaf persons in this
society.
I am just one of those people who wants us all to realize that no
matter what culture we belong to, no matter what our weaknesses or
strengths, we are all in this mess together.
Keepin' the faith and hearing you loud and clear!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen.*
Internet: Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgLaurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Laurie Wilson) (02/13/90)
Index Number: 6769 > is one place and it belongs every bit as much to the deaf > as it does to the hearing. If ya see what I am getting at. > It is only the "chosen" isolation that bothers me from those > who would prefer that a wall of misconception, misunderstanding Yes, I see what you are saying and I agree with you that the wall between the hearing and the deaf needs to be broken down. > the deaf who have chosen isolation and that there has been > a great lack of concern or even interest on the part of > hearing people towards the recognition of the needs and > abilities of deaf persons in this society. This is one of the reasons for my desire to be an advocate for the deaf community to bring more awareness to the hearing people. And I hope someday that the deaf people will accept to meet them halfway, too. Vixen, we need more people like you! Because if there are more people like you, this world would be a better place! Yes, I am keeping the faith. Laurie -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Laurie.Wilson Internet: Laurie.Wilson@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org
Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen *) (02/13/90)
Index Number: 6770
Hi,
Yeah, I know what you mean about Baudot versus ascii capable TDD's.
I think what we really need to do is pry some of those fingers off
the TDD and place them gently on a computer!
Perhaps Phil can eventually find a way to make this software Baudot
capable, I know he wasn' really thrilled with the idea when I first
asked him. But, I do have to credit him for at least modifying so
the newer TDDs can call and et cetera.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen.*
Internet: Vixen.*@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org