Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9168
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi all,
I learned about a situation that just happened and I thought I would
tell all of you about it and see how people would react.
A blind person I know tried to take a charter bus this past week and was
told by the driver that the company rules did not permit her to ride
with a dog guide. Most of the people who were on this bus stated that
they did not want to sit with her because of the dog. Then about twenty
minutes later they did find someone who would sit with her but by that
time she was very upset and decided not to take the trip.
Okay, here is the problem, should she have stayed on the bus for the 27
hours with people who did not want her or should she have saidd alright
and stayed home?
The punch line is that this was a group of blind people.
Tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgMaggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Maggi Weslager) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9169
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TG> because of the dog. Then about twenty minutes later they did
TG> find someone who would sit with her but by that time she was
TG> very upset and decided not to take the trip.
I know this is easier said than done...this woman should have gathered
up all of the courage and patience she could mustard and stood her
ground. We must also consider the reputation of this woman as a guide
dog user. I've been using a dog guide for a relavently short period of
time<one and a half years> and over that time of course my perspective
has changed towards guide dog users and the uneducated public.
TG> Okay, here is the problem, should she have stayed on the bus
TG> for the 27 hours with people who did not want her or should she
TG> have saidd alright and stayed home?
That's a tough qwestion to answer. I've only run into two "rejection
situations" as a guide dog user and both times turned out well.
Legally, this woman had every right to take her dog on that bus and as
for the opinions of the other bus riders...well, it's up to dog users to
educate and inform and also maintain a consistency in behavior. Would I
have gotten off that bus? One part of me says yes because I wouldn't
want to spend that much time with an unaccepting crowd. Another part of
me would say, "Yes, I'm staying on this bus and show all of you a-holes
just how well my dog and I work. Again, patience and tolerance are
definitely virtues that have been enhanced for me because of my use of
my dog.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Maggi.Weslager
Internet: Maggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgVixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9172
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Tom,
My response to your story about the chartered bus trippers who did
not want someone with a guide dog on the bus trip with them is
this.
The "real" punchline is this not that the other riders are blind,
it is that the other riders were jerks.
As for me, I would have said screw them and went right ahead
anyway.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen
Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgPaula.Mack@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Paula Mack) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9175
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TG> A blind person I know tried to take a charter bus this past
TG> week and was told by the driver that the company rules did not
TG> permit her to ride with a dog guide. Most of the people who
TG> were on this bus stated that they did not want to sit with her
TG> because of the dog. Then about twenty minutes later they did
TG> find someone who would sit with her but by that time she was
TG> very upset and decided not to take the trip.
TG> Okay, here is the problem, should she have stayed on the bus
TG> for the 27 hours with people who did not want her or should she
TG> have saidd alright and stayed home?
TG> The punch line is that this was a group of blind people.
Tom, my reaction to this is well--shock! How could a bunch of
blinks turn around and do to another blink what we say we don't like
done to us? It's hard to believe. Are you sure there weren't some
other circumstances involved? If this is really true, then the world is
even sicker than I thought.
Paula
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Paula.Mack
Internet: Paula.Mack@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9185
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TG> A blind person I know tried to take a charter bus this past
TG> week and was told by the driver that the company rules did not
TG> permit her to ride with a dog guide. Most of the people who
TG> were on this bus stated that they did not want to sit with her
TG> because of the dog. Then about twenty minutes later they did
TG> find someone who would sit with her but by that time she was
TG> very upset and decided not to take the trip.
TG> Okay, here is the problem, should she have stayed on the bus
TG> for the 27 hours with people who did not want her or should she
TG> have saidd alright and stayed home?
TG> The punch line is that this was a group of blind people.
Tom, others have discussed various ramifications of this situation. As a matter
of principle, I would say that the woman had the right to ride on the bus, and
whether or not she stayed where she was not wanted is a personal choice.
However, could there have been one or more extenuating situations. I previously
lived in a state where a woman had trouble getting her dog in a restaurant. It
turned out that she didn't bathe the dog properly, and it was smelly and dirty.
Could this have been the case here? If so, the driver and passengers may have
used other reasons as an excuse for not beeing assaulted by the smell. Either
way, it is not right, but things aren't always as simple as they might seem.
David Andrews
... Your Sound Alternative
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (David Kasten) (07/19/90)
Index Number: 9256
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
tom, not all is black and white. i own a dog guide and usually don't
have many problems, however i generally keep falcon clean and smelling
nice. you know, dogs can smell pretty bad and shed like crazy. i try to
respect the people around me, i don't allow, however, myself to get
stepped on. i will stand up for my rights and have a few times in the
past. granted there are some stupid people in this world. it may be
hard to defend a whole bus load of people, regardless of their
disability. but for what it's worth, i went by the nfb convention in
dallas, there were a whole lot of dogs, and in my humble opinion a few of
the dogs deserved better masters than they had. unfortunately this is
probably true for everything, nothing is perfect. but getting back to the
woman and bus, it would be difficult to condemn either party without
knowing the whole story, remember, reading is not always believing.
henry
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!David.Kasten
Internet: David.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/19/90)
Index Number: 9268
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GP> Tom,
GP> More info on the charter. Like: for what? Who are the
GP> people involved--not names, more what kinds of people. Who
GP> ran the charter? Stuff like that.
Gairy,
The charter was to a convention, run by a national organization of blind
people. I think that is why I reacted so quickly. I think that to
subject a blind guy who is one of your members to this kind of
discrimination is unbelieveable. Tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/19/90)
Index Number: 9269
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
AH> Hi Tom:
AH> So, give more detail. Maybe they don't like her, or her
AH> dog. Maybe she was not a good dog-guide owner, or maybe
AH> they were just a bunch of jerks, but which is more likely, one
AH> jerk, or a whole bunch of them. Personally I haven't run into
AH> more than a few complete jerks in one place at any one given
AH> time.
Al,
Well they all knew her very well, and and they knew that she had a dog.
She is a good guide dog user and the dog is very well behaved. It has
alot to do with the leadership of this group, they are the people that
permited this whole situation to start and continue for at least twenty
minutes. Tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgmcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) (07/19/90)
Index Number: 9319 In article <12771@bunker.UUCP> Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org writes: >A blind person I know tried to take a charter bus this past week and was >told by the driver that the company rules did not permit her to ride >with a dog guide. Most of the people who were on this bus stated that >they did not want to sit with her because of the dog. My wife has used a guide dog for eight years. Guide Dogs for the Blind (San Raphael, CA) provides a booklet with the guide dog laws of every state and Canadian province. Typically, she just explains that the dog is a guide dog. Usually, that is enough, but when it isn't she asks the person to read the state laws pertaining to guide dogs. Having the person read the laws themselves is important; it forces them to mentally shift gears and helps break any confrontational attitudes that are present. Unfortunately, there's no way to force people to want to sit with each other on a bus. > Then about twenty >minutes later they did find someone who would sit with her but by that >time she was very upset and decided not to take the trip. We've found it critical to remain calm and non-confrontational throughout the whole process. The one time she had to call the police, the entire episode lasted almost an hour. It was a long, stressful hour, and we prayed and talked to each other the whole time. But it was worth it in the end knowing that we had done the right thing and that she would (hopefully) be the last guide dog user refused service there. >Okay, here is the problem, should she have stayed on the bus for the 27 >hours with people who did not want her or should she have said alright >and stayed home? Sigh. This is a tough call. I certainly understand why she might want to forget the whole thing. What it came down to for us in the above situation (when we called the police), was that the restaurant manager was doing something wrong, and we had to hold him accountable so he wouldn't keep doing it. If you will, we perservered because of the principle involved (it sure wasn't because we were dying to have lunch at a fast-food restaurant). Darin McGrew mcgrew@Eng.Sun.COM Affiliation stated for identification purposes only.
cas@mtdcb.att.com (Clifford A Stevens, Jr) (07/24/90)
Index Number: 9394 I dunno what I'd do if I was her, for me it's easy! It's her right, so I'd stay on the bus and the h*ll w the other passengers! But I'm a mean SOB! ------------ Militant Handicapped Survivor! Cliff Stevens MT1E228 att!cbnewsj!ncas (908)671-7292
Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (07/24/90)
Index Number: 9412
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
This isn't making sense. Do these people normally get along with this
person? Do any of them have dogs in addition to the person no one wanted
to sit near? Was there a question of having paid for a seat on the bus
beforehand?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/24/90)
Index Number: 9433
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Gairy,
Everybody on the bus knows this person very well and there two other
people who are dog owners but did not take their dogs. Payment was not
a question. Tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (07/27/90)
Index Number: 9542
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I thought you and others interested in reading via walkman might be
interested in the one thing that I'm not crazy about the BIT 3. I
usually use rechargeable batteries, and I'm finding that for some
reason the machine at 15/16ths speed will quickly sound like it
needs new batteries using rechargeables. It is true that I've not
tried various kinds of batteries with the unit, but I did use the
ones that are sold by BIT and also the Realistic cells and found
that with both kinds the results were similar. Bill K.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!666!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (08/09/90)
Index Number: 9633
BK> finding that for some reason the machine at 15/16ths speed will
BK> quickly sound like it needs new batteries using rechargeables.
Bill, the problem may be with your batteries; NiCads need to
periodically be completely discharged (and then recharged) or they
forget how to hold a complete charge.
Also, NiCads are slightly lower in voltage than carbon-zinc or
alkalines; this may be part of the problem, too.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!729!Jeff.Salzberg
Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.org