Bill.Swift@p0.f165.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Swift) (07/21/90)
Index Number: 9364
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Just signed on here and thought I would leave a message saying hi.
Rick G and I have been friends for awhile now and I got in here because of
this echo and other reasons as well.
As way of introduction, I am a hearing impaired 34 yo man. I lost my
hearing at the age of 6 due to a bad case of measles that left me
hospitalized the entire course of the disease and which I have no memory
of. Massive nerve damage left me totally deaf in my left ear and have
partial loss in the right ear, which apparently after years of being stable
is now starting to change. The doctor referred to it as "natural
progression" which is french for Im getting older. I was not amused. They
want to put me in a multi cross hearing aid but that will have to wait
awhile as insurance will not pay for it.
As with all others with similar afflictions, I was mainstreamed in
school and didnt learn sign language until I was 30. Prior to that I had a
"baby sign" vocabulary from working with Mentally retarded/autistic/mentally
ill adults. I am now the head nurse of a psychiatric unit for the deaf in
Mass, and it was here that I finallylearned ASL and have become quite
proficient at it. I really didnt develop my deaf identity until I started
working and socializing with the deaf and have become somewhat militant in
soem respects as a result. I now demand interpreters for lectures and
trainings that happen in large rooms <I had to have a rather nasty and
protracted arguement with work over that-"You can manage without it." Well
excuse me but I am the only one who knows what I need!> I did prevail.
Threats of involving my union <under affirmative action> and the Mass
Commission of Deaf/Hard of Hearing <violating the rights of the handicapped
(I hate that word but it can be useful on occasion. I am not handicapped.
I jsut dont hear as well as most people. ANd if work has a problem with
it, then they will get over it.
Most of my experiences in the deaf world have been positive but not
all of them. There are idiots everywhere and the arent limited by ability
to hear. Myself and another hearing impaired staff person tried to
instruct our staff that there was more to itthan simply deaf and hearing
worlds. We are both and neither. We vented all the shit we had been
through over the years trying to give them a clue as to what it is like
growing up hearing impaired when the deaf think you are hearing and the
hearing think you are deaf. I myself included good/bad deaf/hearing
stories. The bad included a hearing man that was shocked to learn I had a
drivers license. <I told him I didnt drive with my ears> and some obvious
rejection from some native signers from the Rainbow Alliance of the Deaf
while I was learning sign <Nothing is quite as obvious as a deaf person who
is disdainfully ignoring you and that hurts--and one of the worst offenders
was soemone who ignored and refused to talk to me at all because he didnt
want to bother now will talk to me now that he sees I can carry on an in
depth conversation in sign....the two faced bastard.> The bad is almost
always compensated by the good stories and there are more of them but I
think the bad affects us more.
Hmmmm I seem to be rambling as usual and this is startign to get REAL
long so I will stop before my fingers fall off. I am out of work due to a
car accident for a few weeks so I will be using the time to do some
exploration of this ond the other boards here. Will enjoy chatting with
you all and exchanging stories. Take care.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!165.0!Bill.Swift
Internet: Bill.Swift@p0.f165.n101.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (07/21/90)
Index Number: 9367
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Welcome aboard, Bill. I enjoyed reading your post, and it sure
sounds to me like you've come to the right place. The campers
here are ASL Deaf, Oral deaf, hard of hearing, and a few hearing
friends. The experiences you described sound really familiar
to us, like "De ja vu all over again" :-)
BS> totally deaf in my left ear and have partial loss in
BS> the right ear, which apparently after years of being stable is
Every hearing loss is different, but yours sounds quite similar to
mine. I'll bet you have trouble conversing with the driver when
you're riding in the front passenger seat of a car :-)
BS> They want to put me in a multi cross hearing aid but
BS> that will have to wait awhile as insurance will not pay
I'm wearing a Telex 350 Wireless Bi-Cros, which maybe you ought
to look at when the time comes. I went thru a lotta different
hardware before finding this. Mine has a really good T-Coil
that helps a lot with assitive listening systems.
Most health insurance is worthless when it comes to hearing aids.
But check with Mass OVR. They might help if you need the aid to
do your job.
Have you connected with SHHH (Self Help for Hard of Hearing People)
yet, Bill? A few of us SilentTalkers recently returned from the
SHHH convention in Little Rock. It's hard to describe the special
feeling one gets when surrounded by hundreds of other hearing
impaired people in a setting like that. (Tho Frank Hickenbothem
did a fine job of describing it on this echo a few days ago.)
But it's like hearing loss is the norm, and the hearing people
are the oddballs. All of us deserve a chance to experience that!
... HI-HoH Silver, Awayyyyy!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (07/24/90)
Index Number: 9404
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Greetings from OkieLand, Bill, and may I welcome you aboard SilentTalk.
I thought your message was so nice and am glad you told us about
yourself. I have one question though, do you use sign as your personal
way of communication or is it more job related so you can communicate
with other HI folks? The reason I'm asking is that I have worked
closely with our local state mental health center which has a good
hearing impaired services department. In fact, a very good friend
of mine is the coordinator here in Lawton. The state director of
DHS/Mental Health/Hearing Impaired Services is a super guy by the
name of Bill Erikson who is profoundly deaf but he uses total
communication.
I started helping Taliaferro Mental Health Center out when they first
opened the Hearing Impaired Services Department several years ago
as well as set up the HI Library. What fun that was! Our center
really goes out of their way to provide services and even provides
use of the center for meetings and such. They even teach ASL/Pidgen
twice a week and have trained all of their personnel.
I, too, was not exposed to the deaf world until a few years ago
and I will admit I had a LOT of eye openers! What bothered me most
was the lack of referral services, lack of voluntary information,
etc. as so many of the deaf do not know what questions to ask when
they are in need of services or information. That is slowly changing
but still has lots of room for improvement.
I haven't encountered any deaf snobs in this area but I am fully
aware of them in other states. I just don't let them get to me.
Often many of the young adults visit my home and since I'm not
proficient in signing, they try to communicate orally and we do have
some interesting conversations and a good time. They seem to enjoy
learning a few new words as well as practicing their voice/speechreading
skills. I'm not cutting down ASL but I sure would like to see a
few changes made because I've seen too many miss out on so much,
especially lacking in comprehension of our English language and
lack of reading skills. In order to correct this serious problem,
I feel we are going to have to start with the young ones and see
that they are provided with a better education than has previously
been provided. I feel very strongly about this and am quite militant
with my views.
We have an Interpreters' Association in Oklahoma and directories
are provided with a listing of qualified interpreters in each city/
town. It really comes in handy but it is very difficult to find
oral interpreters which is what I prefer and feel most comfortable
using.
Heck, you and I would have joined forces in the lobby of one of our
local hospitals for a screaming session two years ago. I conducted
the training sessions of all hospital personnel in the use of TDDs.
Believe me, it was quite an experience! Especially when they locked
up the TDDs in a room which was not accessible to all personnel!!!
Talk about UNREAL! However, I think I managed to successfully solve
that problem and I still give them a call from time to time to make
sure they do keep their TDDs hooked up.
Well, guess I'm about out of room and I think it's time *I* shut
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (07/25/90)
Index Number: 9474
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
BS> You mentioned to check with OVR. . . Who are they and how
BS> would I contact them.
OVR is Office of Vocational Rehabilitation that exists (I think)
in each of the states. They will frequently help with funding
prostheses that are necessary to obtain or maintain employment.
I'm not sure how to contact them in Boston. But you might call
Nan Robbins at Massachusetts Deaf and Hard of Hearing in Boston.
600 Washington St. Phone (617)727-5106. She should be able to
tell you.
BS> And no I havent heard of SHHHHHH <I forget how many
BS> H's> though I think a friend of mine from work may have
BS> mentioned it once or twice. I would be interested in that
BS> kind of group so if you could tell me how to get in touch
There are at least nine chapters and groups of SHHH (Self Help
for Hard of Hearing People) in Massachusetts, Bill. The best
way to get in touch with one would be to contact the national
SHHH office at 7800 Wisconsin Ave, Bethesda, MD 20814. Phone
numbers are (301)657-2248 voice and (301)657-2249 tdd.
... Jack.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Swift@f165.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Swift) (07/27/90)
Index Number: 9567
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
-> AS> about yourself. I have one question though, do you use
-> AS> sign as your personal way of communication or is it more
-> AS> job related so you can communicate with other HI folks?
Both actually. It depends on the situation. I use ASL to communicate
with deaf/HI friends as well as at work. As I have a fair amount of
hearing I dont use it to communicate often inthe hearing world, and use
voice and lipreading and my own hearing most of the time. For lectures and
trainings I need it to understand what is being presented, especially in
large rooms. And I had to use sign once to communicate with hearing people
when one of my patients hit me in the voice box and I had no voice for a
few days. ANd even when it cam e back, I sounded like a cross between
Wolfman Jack and Tallulah Bankhead for a couple of weeks.
-> AS> cutting down ASL but I sure would like to see a
-> AS> few changes made because I've seen too many miss out on so
-> AS> much, especially lacking in comprehension of our English
-> AS> language and
-> AS> lack of reading skills. In order to correct this serious
-> AS> problem, I feel we are going to have to start with the
-> AS> young ones and see that they are provided with a better
-> AS> education than has previously been provided. I feel very
-> AS> strongly about this and am quite militant with my views.
I agree and disagree with that statement. I feel the state of
education in this country in general is appalling and needs a severe
overhaul with a much stronger emphasis on the basics which involves reading
and the banning of calculators from math classes. I think this is
something that should be done in all classes, not just in deaf schools. At
the same time I do subscribe also to the need to teach ASL as the primary
language for the deaf to communicate with. I think Written and Reading
English skills are much too low to be tolerated but feel english should be
taught as a foreign language which is what it is. ASL and English are
different and need to be taught, but taught separately.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!165!Bill.Swift
Internet: Bill.Swift@f165.n101.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (08/10/90)
Index Number: 9655 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > I agree and disagree with that statement. I feel > the state of education in this country in general is appalling > and needs a severe overhaul with much stronger emphasis on the > basics which involves reading and the banning of calculators > from math classes. I think this is something that should be > done in all classes, not just in deaf schools. I am in full agreement with you here, however, I don't think we're going to see deaf schools around much longer since mainstreaming is becoming the "in" thing right now as most parents want their hearing impaired children to be in regular classrooms. > At the same time I do subscribe also to the need to teach > ASL as the primary language for the deaf to communicate with. > I think Written and Reading English skills are much too low > to be tolerated but feel english should be taught as a foreign > language which is what it is. ASL and English are different > and need to be taught, but taught separately. I think we may have to agree to disagree here, Bill as I don't feel ASL should be the primary language for the deaf to communicate. As one who has a congenital profound nerve deafness (the oldest of 3 siblings who are profoundly deaf), I have never used ASL, in fact, I was almost 4 years old before my parents realized I was deaf since I could speak and lipread. I realize the concentration span is stressful for one who lipreads but it can be done and it's not as hard as so many say it is. I'm just appalled at the fact that so many of the deaf people cannot read beyond the 4th grade level due to their lack of the English language and in order to overcome this situation, we need to make some changes and I don't feel using ASL as the primary language is the way to do this, it's already been proven it isn't. Stepping down from 'soap box' mode. This is a very controversial issue but one that needs to be covered and also one that needs to be looked at realistically. Regardless of what communication mode we use, we still need to work together as a whole to make this WIDE and WONDERFUL world of ours a better place for us. It's our place to educate the unknown. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
ps299bd@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Romy Spitz) (08/13/90)
Index Number: 9796 In article <13327@bunker.UUCP>, Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) writes: > Index Number: 9655 > > > At the same time I do subscribe also to the need to teach > > ASL as the primary language for the deaf to communicate with. > > I think Written and Reading English skills are much too low > > to be tolerated but feel english should be taught as a foreign > > language which is what it is. ASL and English are different > > and need to be taught, but taught separately. > I think we may have to agree to disagree here, Bill as I don't feel > ASL should be the primary language for the deaf to communicate. > As one who has a congenital profound nerve deafness (the oldest of > 3 siblings who are profoundly deaf), I have never used ASL, in fact, > I was almost 4 years old before my parents realized I was deaf since > I could speak and lipread. I realize the concentration span is > stressful for one who lipreads but it can be done and it's not as > hard as so many say it is. Hi all, Just thouht I might enter this thread. I agree somewhat with both of you, although I have to say I aggree more with Bill (the first poster than with you, Ann. I also was raised entirely oral, and resisted any attempt to learn ASL until age 25 because I too have good speechreading skills and adequate speech. The change in perspective began in college. I went to a university where the lecture halls seat 300-400 students. Even if you manage to get a seat in the front row, you are still too far away to speechread the prof. I "managed" by using other people's notes on the lecture and got high grades. Then I met another deaf/hi student who had an interpreter for the same class, and realized that while I had to rely on second hand info, she was able to organize the lecture material for herself. Ann, in a group situation speechreading isn't always possible, and the everyday class room that students, deaf and hearing, must attend is a group situation. Why force the kids to use a stradegy that can't possibly allow them to understand 100% percent of what is being said, when you have an alternative mode of communication that will allow them to understand the entire complement of what is being taught? Ann, I think you are execptional with respect to the fact that you (and I) can speechread this well. I don't think everyone is capable of doing so. If you restrict deaf children to speechreading entirely, you must defer teaching and everyday communication until the child is old enough to be taught explicitly to speechread. This means that years will go by when the child cannot communicate. The first few years of life are too important to waste this way. If the parents are willing to learn a second language in order to provide an accessible means of communicating with their deaf child I think this should be lauded rather than criticized. After experiencing lectures both with and without an interpreter..I have to say that the presence of an Interpreter makes a hell of alot of difference with respect to the amount of information I pick up..I can't belive that children would be harmed by presenting information in a language that they can understand directly. I hope this thread continues...It has been very interesting to read eveyone's comments! Romy Spitz (rspitz@ucsd.bitnet)
ps299bd@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Romy Spitz) (08/20/90)
Index Number: 9883 In article <13327@bunker.UUCP>, Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) writes: > Index Number: 9655 > > > At the same time I do subscribe also to the need to teach > > ASL as the primary language for the deaf to communicate with. > > I think Written and Reading English skills are much too low > > to be tolerated but feel english should be taught as a foreign > > language which is what it is. ASL and English are different > > and need to be taught, but taught separately. > I think we may have to agree to disagree here, Bill as I don't feel > ASL should be the primary language for the deaf to communicate. > As one who has a congenital profound nerve deafness (the oldest of > 3 siblings who are profoundly deaf), I have never used ASL, in fact, > I was almost 4 years old before my parents realized I was deaf since > I could speak and lipread. I realize the concentration span is > stressful for one who lipreads but it can be done and it's not as > hard as so many say it is. I'm just appalled at the fact that so > many of the deaf people cannot read beyond the 4th grade level due > to their lack of the English language and in order to overcome this > situation, we need to make some changes and I don't feel using ASL > as the primary language is the way to do this, it's already been > proven it isn't. Hi all, Just thouht I might enter this thread. I agree somewhat with both of you, although I have to say I aggree more with Bill (first poster) than with you, Ann. I also was raised entirely oral, and resisted any attempt to learn ASL until age 25 because I too have good speechreading skills and adequate speech. The change in perspective began in college. I went to a university where the lecture halls seat 300-400 students. Even if you manage to get a seat in the front row, you are still too far away to speechread the prof. I "managed" by using other people's notes on the lecture and got high grades. Then I met another deaf/hi student who had an interpreter for the same class, and realized that while I had to rely on second hand info, she was able to organize the lecture material for herself. Ann, in a group situation speechreading isn't always possible, and the everyday class room that students, deaf and hearing, must attend is a group situation. Why force the kids to use a stradegy that can't possible allow them to understand 100% percent of what is being said, when you have an alternative mode of communication that will allow them to understand the entire complement of what is being taught? Ann, I think you are execptional with respect to the fact that you (and I) can speechread this well. I don't think everyone is capable of doing so. If you restrict deaf children to speechreading entirely, you must defer teaching and everyday communication until the child is old enough to be taught explicitly to speechread. This means that years will go by when the child cannot communicate. The first few years of life are too important to waste this way. If the parents are willing to learn a second language in order to provide an accessible means of communicating with their deaf child I think this should be lauded rather than criticized. After experiencing lectures both with and without an interpreter..I have to say that the presence of an Interpreter makes a hell of alot of difference with respect to the amount of information I pick up..I can't belive that children would be harmed by presenting information in a language that they can understand directly. I hope this thread continues...It has been very interesting to read eveyone's comments! Romy Spitz (rspitz@ucsd.bitnet)
Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (08/28/90)
Index Number: 10002
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
To: ps299bd@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Romy Spitz)
Hi, Romy! I'm glad you jumped in this thread about ASL vs speechreading/
oral communication.
I feel that with all of the technology that is available now, there
is no reason our children of the future (those who are hearing impaired)
can't learn English using total communication. Things have come
a long way since you and I were in elementary school.
Perhaps you and I were the exception but I still think ASL should
not be caught as a primary language. I guess the reason I feel so
strongly about this is due to the exposure I've seen of other HI
folks who are so isolated and live in their own little world. I
wasn't exposed to this until just a few years ago as I'm not a part
of the deaf culture. I actually don't believe in the deaf culture
because I want to see all of us join in with everyone else. This
is going to have to happen in order to educate the hearing world
and break down the barriers that hamper so many.
There were no oral interpreters when I was in school but there are
many available now and I use one often for big group meetings and
seminars. I am planning on using one while attending classes at
our local university.
Like Stu has mentioned, all concepts of communication should be taught.
I've had many tell me it's not possible but I don't buy that.
Sorry I was delayed in responding to your message but things have
been a bit busy for me lately. I sure hope to keep up now that I've
caught up on my mail or perhaps I should say when the second system
is around (I hope next week). It's hard for me to get on my own
BBS to answer my mail.
Meanwhile, I'd like others to jump in with their comments on this
subject - it's certainly a very interesting one even though it can
be controversial. But we know that, don't we? (grin)
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org