Thomas.Belsan@f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Thomas Belsan) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10394
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> hey it is no mystery to have a guide take you up the escalator,
DK> i think i spelled that right. you simply put your left foot
DK> forward touching the plate at the beginning or the end of the
DK> ride. when your foot touches the plate as the escelator moves,
DK> lift the dog by the harness backstrap. many [A[D schools don't
Dan, a very good description. That is the way Leader taughtt me.
There were to students in my class who learned this
method. The instructors did not feel the other members of
the class needed the training. They were told to find stairs or an
escalator When they taught us they told us to be very
careful because the dogs nails could get caught in the
steps. They mentioned that an instructor had gotten a dogs
nails caught. If it can happen to an instructor we users
must be even more careful. My dog Shebe and I have been up
and down many times without any problems.
Tom
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!15!Thomas.Belsan
Internet: Thomas.Belsan@f15.n114.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (09/19/90)
Index Number: 10452
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
tom, don't know how paws can get caught in the plate because your
foot is ahead of your dog's paws. when that foots hits the plate,
you lift the dog about a foot and all four paws are above the plate
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (09/19/90)
Index Number: 10457
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
-> In a message to Thomas Belsan <09-09-90 18:34> Dan Kysor wrote:
->
-> DK> tom, don't know how paws can get caught in the plate
-> DK> because your foot is ahead of your dog's paws. when that
-> DK> foots hits the plate, you lift the dog about a foot and all
-> DK> four paws are above the plate
I need my escalator proceedures overhauled. I don't use them much, so
please explain something to me. I figured that the dog would be ahead of
me on the escalator, so how would my foot hit the plate first? Also, what
about when first getting on? Sorry, people, but I haven't seen one of
these things in such a long time...
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJim.O'Neill@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Jim O'Neill) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10582
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
to all of you who insist on taking your dogs on esculators.
I want to wish you luck, I am a former dog guide user, and I am still
hearing about accidents.
again good luck perhaps you should conside, do the risk's out way the
conveenience.
Jim O'Neill
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Jim.O'Neill
Internet: Jim.O'Neill@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgDarrell.Shandrow@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Darrell Shandrow) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10725
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Agreed. Butt at the same time, the guide dog isn't supposed to become a
limitation for the blind person. If it is a limitation they shouldn't
even be used. 73
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!7!Darrell.Shandrow
Internet: Darrell.Shandrow@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10743
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DS> Agreed. Butt at the same time, the guide dog isn't supposed to
DS> become a limitation for the blind person. If it is a
DS> limitation they shouldn't even be used.
Darrell,
Sorry, but this sounds like the typical argument a guide dog user
gets from those of you who choose not to use a guide dog! That is, not
using a guide dog cause you can't go up escalators, or choose not to
risk going up escalators, sounds pretty much the same to me as when I've
heard, "I don't have to take my cane to the vet, or feed it, or take it
out to do it's thing"!
There are so many variables involved in how well someone is able to
travel with a cane, as there are with a dog, that I don't think a
simplification like "It shouldn't be used if it limits..." is fair.
Somewhere along the line one has to balance limitations with benefits
with both the use of a dog or a cane! If you'll pardon me stroking my
own goat, I was, prior to getting Strider, what most cane travelers
would consider a pretty good cane user. I honestly believe that I was
better, as a matter of fact, than most of the people from whom I've
heard the old limitations of guide dog use stories I described above.
Since using a dog, however, I can honestly say that any
"limitations" I endure by doing so are outweighed by the benefits that I
can't imagine going on using the cane, as I am now, and not getting a
new pooch! Remember, I will actually have twice the responsibilities of
most guide dog users, having old Strider to take care of, and those of
my new worker, but not only do I find this a small price to pay for the
benefits of a guide dog, I think I owe it to Strider for what he's done
for me to do these things for him as well!
Yeah, yeah, I know that for many people the cane is all the
mobility tool they want or need, but then there are a lot of us who can
use either method and just KNOW that the mutt is the only way for us!
Not because we HAVE to, but because we LIKE to!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10747
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willie,
Don't know if I ever told this one before, but if I have just skip
this one.
Anyway, I remember one night, well after midnight, I was coming home
from the library--stop sniggering, it really Was the library, and no, she
wasn't a redhead. I didn't have more than a ten block walk, but the
university had been doing some construction and part of my walk led through
that area. Well, you can guess what happened. The landmarks were altered
because of the construction and, all of a sudden, I had no real idea where
I was exactly. Well, after doing exactly what Dave Martin said some people
do--blaming the dog for their own shortcomings--I stopped to think it out.
I knew approximately where I was, but seemed to be in a dead end and no one
was about at all. Just me and my first dog, Oran. I remembered hearing
some other dog users talk about being in similar situations and they said
that all they did was to give the dog his head. What the hell, I couldn't
get More lost. "Let's go home, okay?" I tried to tell him that I was
sorry I'd been harsh before and that I was just plain upset. I guess it
worked, 'cause off he went and at a gait which said as plain as words"
"schmuck, I know where I'm going, even if you don't. It's late and I'm
tired too."
Within ten minutes we were home, or what passed for home. I couldn't
have done by myself. A cane sure as hell couldn't have done it. But he
could and did. The whole affair changed our relationship and I became a
better person and dog user after that. He was a great dog, and one day,
I'll tell the one about him and the mailman. He died six years later and I
burried him with his harness.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgHenry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10772
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I can't believe I am quoting this from you, "the guide dog isn't
supposed to become a limitation for the blind person. If it is a
limitation they shouldn't even be used."
Hold on Darryll! You are way off base on this one. You have heard the
saying "There is a place and time for everything" Well that holds true
for Blinks too. I used a cane before getting a dog, I did not get a dog
because I couldn't use a cane . Quite the contrary, I was a very good
cane traveler judging from the messages i've seen in Blink Talk. I
chose to get a dog for only one reason, and it had nothing to do with
mobility. I had a perception of how I would be received as a cane user
and another perception as a dog user. I visualized people clearing a
path for me and backing away when I used my cane, on the other hand I
visualized people moving closer and being friendlier because of the
beautiful dog I was walking with. Both perceptions were mine and mine
alone. No body told me this would or would not happen. However I found
this to be the case for me. My work is very much in the eye of the
public, I found Falcon was a great ice breaker at parties and gatherings
as well as public meetings.
But does Falcon have any limitations? Your Darn Tootin! He probably
has more limitations than carter has little liver pills. So what do we
do? We adapt! Falcon can walk in the rain or through a puddle all day,
but forget it if their is a water sprinkler misting the side walk, It
would take a tractor to pull him across that path. so, we go into the
street around the water. I love to go to the movie, concerts, ball
games, amusement parks, all sorts of places I choose not to take Falcon.
I either go sighted guide or take my cane.
If all you have is a cane , then you are limited by that cane, are you
going to throw it out? If you have a dog, you are only limited by your
lack of imagination.
Mobile in Texas, Henry
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!Henry.Kasten
Internet: Henry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f722.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10834
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willie
I could not have said it better myself. I believe that if you conducted
a test between a cane user and a dog user and put in a number of
obsticles and other hazards, that the dog user would win hands down.
Any one want to try? tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!722!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f722.n273.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10903
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TG> Willie
TG> I could not have said it better myself. I believe that if you
TG> conducted a test between a cane user and a dog user and put in
TG> a number of obsticles and other hazards, that the dog user
TG> would win hands down. Any one want to try? tom G
First, it depends on the obstacles and hazzards involved. It is a
simplification to assume that the dog user would always "win."
Secondly, this is not a contest. People should use whatever method
works for them and what they are confortable with. By making it a
contest you will only widen any void which may exist between cane
and dog users.
There are of course exeptions, however, I think that a cane may
have advantages over a dog in many indoor situations. This is
primarily because of the nature of using the two methods. A cane
user is much more involved with landmarks, details etc. A dog user
often will not know these things even exist, as the dog skirts
them. However, it may be necessary, and/or unavoidable to come
into cantact with these things indoors. David Andrews
... Your Sound Alternative
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDarrell.Shandrow@p0.f10.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Darrell Shandrow) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10909
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Guess I blew this one. I was just going on what several people have
tried to convince me to get a dog. Believe it or not, many sighted
people can't belieeve that I can travel with just a long white cane,
they automatically can't immagine why I travel around without a dog.
73
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!10.0!Darrell.Shandrow
Internet: Darrell.Shandrow@p0.f10.n300.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10916
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i am not crazy about them myself. nothing is worse than a sighted
guide who jokes around and dosen't tell you when you're on that
blasted thing!
i must point out though, if you have to use them, there is a safe
way to work the guide dog on to them and sure, the schools don't
like them but not all the guide dog schools use the proper
techniques either. make sure before you ever try it, that you're
using the proper techniques... dan out of sight out of my mind
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10923
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> and sure, the schools don't like them but not all the guide dog
DK> schools use the proper techniques either. make sure before you
DK> ever try it, that you're using the proper techniques...
Dan,
You're kidding, right? I mean, do you REALLY think that some of
the schools know a 100% safe method of taking a dog on an escalator and
others don't???
Dan, the only difference between the schools in this matter is the
amount of risk they think one should take with their dogs! I agree that
the risk in taking a dog up an escalator is minimal, and yes, I've even
done it in the past with Strider when it would have been a real pain to
do otherwise, but acting as if there is some mysterious method to
accomplish it safely that some schools know and that others don't is, in
my opinion, wrong! I've seen enough escalators in the past to know that
because of the mechanics involved, there is one way and one way only to
guarantee that a dog tootsie won't get caught in the exiting process,
and that is to remove all four paws from the area. Yeah, yeah, I know
that there are ways of prompting the dog to do this on its own, and
actually, the few times I used an escalator with Strider, he was alert
enough to start walking as soon as I did, which means he was lifting his
feet as we exited, and all was ok. This, or any other technique,
however, just can't be 100% safe, so unless you're lifting your dog up
and carrying it off, you're taking a risk! Minimal, yes, but a risk
nevertheless!
Willie
... Even if you're not the lead dog, the view can be interesting!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10927
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
-> In a message to Henry Kasten <09-29-90 15:09> Darrell Shandrow wrote:
->
-> DS> Guess I blew this one. I was just going on what several
-> DS> people have
-> DS> tried to convince me to get a dog. Believe it or not, many
-> DS> sighted
-> DS> people can't belieeve that I can travel with just a long
-> DS> white cane,
-> DS> they automatically can't immagine why I travel around
-> DS> without a dog.
Well, do what you're comfortable with and not what's expected. It
won't matter to the sighted anyway. I was walking down my street towards
home and overheard two people asking themselves whether I was a "friend" of
theirs. One said to the other, "No, he can't be, he has a dog."
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org