Paul.Bergeron@f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Bergeron) (09/27/90)
Index Number: 10661
SW> Noting a previous message of yours, I think you sign. Is your signing
SW> perceptably different from those who had signing as their first
SW> language?
Well, when i first became deaf, learning to sign was pretty hard. I went
to the Louisiana State School for the deaf, and a few students were hard
of hearing, and helped out by interpreting for me. I took a few classes
in college, and sign pretty good. But I guess you could say that my signs
are a little different from everyone else. Maybe not the signs, just the
grammer. Since I have been around deaf people for more than half my life,
I don't have much trouble understanding them. Some of them have trouble
understanding me though. How about you? You must sign well since you
have been deaf since year zero! The hardest thing for me is to talk and
sign at the same time. I can do one, or the other, but not both. I get
confused!!!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!8!Paul.Bergeron
Internet: Paul.Bergeron@f8.n396.z1.fidonet.orgcas@mtdcb.att.com (Cliff Stevens) (09/30/90)
Index Number: 10679 In article <14473@bunker.UUCP>, Paul.Bergeron@f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Bergeron) writes: > Index Number: 10661 > > I guess you could say that my signs are a little different from everyone else. Please don't think I'm making fun of you, but I could not resist! Does this mean you sign w an accent? :-) ------------ Militant Handicapped Survivor! Cliff Stevens MT1E228 att!cbnewsj!ncas (908)671-7292
Stephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (Stephen White) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10801
PB> You must sign well since you have been deaf since year zero!
I was raised up to be an oralist. I didn't start signing until the
start of last year, and I haven't signed for a year now.
PB> Well, when i first became deaf, learning to sign was pretty hard.
Some people find it hard - I didn't... Probably because I have a
near-photographic memory. About a month after I started signing, I
was signing about the same level as someone who had been learning
for about 6 months. That was reading out of sign books with simple
diagrams and movement descriptions too.
If I get too personal in some of my questions, then don't answer
them and tell me I'm being a nosey-poke! At least I asked! Here we
go, a whole slew of questions coming, and I'll answer them myself
so you can know about me too. Forgive my curiousity, but I tend to
be too polite and end up not knowing anything about other people.
1) How did you learn sign?
2) How did you feel when you became deaf?
3) How do you feel about being deaf now?
4) How do other people treat you because you are deaf?
5) How did your parents react to you becoming deaf? Did they insist
you hold to their standards, or did they learn sign as well?
6) What sort of facilities are available to the deaf in America?
7) What is the feeling towards deaf people in general, in America?
8) What is it like living in America? What is racial tension?
9) How old are you now? (22?)
10) Is there an "inner core" in te deaf community, with deaf hardliners
who don't get on with people coming from hearing families and who
became deaf later in life?
11) How deaf are you?
12) What are your main hobbies? Job?
13) What do you think of other deaf people?
1) How did you learn sign?
Out of a book. I learned Signed English first, which gave me
trouble later as I occassionally used the Signed English variants
which nobody knew...
2) How did you feel when you became deaf?
Warm and cosy, perhaps! It must have been a bit of a tight fit as I
kicked a lot! :-)
3) How do you feel about being deaf now?
Fine. I'd rather be deaf actually, because most sound these days is
just noise pollution (Kylie Monologue) and because I have a ready
made peer group. I can walk into a deaf club and be sure of being
welcomed.
4) How do other people treat you because you are deaf?
A bit leery at first, but since I talk perfectly, and act perfectly
normal, they soon forget I'm deaf. In fact, in school I had people
who have known me for 8 years come up to me and say "You're not
deaf, you're just pretending to be"! :-) Likewise with my deaf
friends - they'd say that I wasn't deaf and that I was in the wrong
school. Some of the Year 8 and 9's asked me what I was doing,
"hanging around" with my friends, as I should be over with the
hearies. :-(
5) How did your parents react to you becoming deaf? Did they insist
you hold to their standards, or did they learn sign as well?
They didn't have to do anything major - just make sure that I was
looking at them first. I used to do some awful things when I was a
child... They'd lock the front door so I wouldn't be able to get
out and accidentally get run over. I'd pile up tables, chairs and
stools so I could climb up and unlock the door. When it was time
for my bath, when Mum came to tell me, I'd close my eyes and say
"What? Sorry Mum, I can't understand what you're saying!" Once Mum
came in and found me happily bashing her lead crystal vase to
pieces with a big hammer. She wasn't worried about the vase, but
wondered how I wasn't cut with all the pieces of broken glass over
the kitchen floor. And I remember setting the rubbish bin on
fire...
Mum didn't find out I was deaf until I was about 3 or 4, because of
things like when she was walking along a corridor and I'd run up
ahead of her. She'd stop, call out "Steve" and I'd turn around and
run back to her. What I was doing was feeling her footsteps, and
then when they stopped, I'd go back.
My very very first sentence ever was "Big thin hospital with lots
of doors and lots of windows", said absolutely clearly and
understood first time. In fact, Mum and Dad thought it was my
sister that said it (4 years older than me). I remember being
irritated when they asked me to repeat it... From then on, I've
been babbling away for 11 years with my mouth in permanent
overdrive! :-)
6) What sort of facilities are available to the deaf in America?
In Australia, very little.
7) What is the feeling towards deaf people in general, in America?
In Australia, ignorance.
8) What is it like living in America? What is racial tension?
Racial tension? I cannot understand how people can go "I hate him"
and want to beat their faces in simply because they come from
another country. Racial discrimination exists in Australia, because
of stereotyping - Italians are known as hardworking but without
scruples. Aboriginals are known as good for nothing layabouts who
drink themselves blind on metho. Americans are known as brash
loudmouthed people who "take charge" on things they know nothing
about...
Nothing major results from racial discrimination, except for
employment where employers tend to hire based on the stereotype
rather than the reality. This practise is largely curtailed by the
Equal Opportunities Act though.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!Stephen.White
Internet: Stephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgStephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (Stephen White) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10802
9) How old are you now? (22?)
19, going on 80.
10) Is there an "inner core" in te deaf community, with deaf hardliners
who don't get on with people coming from hearing families and who
became deaf later in life?
Yes. There is a large family in Adelaide (Maggs) who are rather
like that. I got on fairly well with them, even though my signing
was shit. Ewen Maggs had a tendency to use people though - I would
have ended up being a taxi service for him if I hadn't learned how
to spot people-users earlier in life. (I've always had an
inordinate amount of lunch money)
11) How deaf are you?
Following is an approximation of my db chart:
0 |
|
20 |
|
40 |
db |
60 |
|
80 |.
|
100 | .
| . out of range of machine.
120 | . v
+-------------------------------------
Hearing Range
Since I have a very sensitive sense of touch, they cannot be sure
if I'm hearing or feeling the low freqs. I think it's both.
12) What are your main hobbies? Job?
Computer programming and communications. I'm currently a student at
University, doing Electronics Engineering, even though I want to
change over to Computer Sciences next year.
13) What do you think of other deaf people?
To be honest, I find some of them rather shallow. I tend to get on
better with those who mix with other hearing people, as they're
more tolerant and have more interests.
The hardliners have their own relatively narrow focus - on
themselves. I think that their hardlining is an attempt at a
protective shell. If they make themselves feel superior, they have
no need to risk rejection by attempting to make friends with
"lesser mortals".
This applies to anyone and any group. Deaf hardliners tend to be a
bit more rabid than the normal hardliners though, probably because
deaf people tend to be more subject to ridicule. I've never had a
problem with that, since I do not expect to be ridiculed.
I'll have more questions for you later, depending on the results of
these questions...
PB> I took a few classes in college, and sign pretty good. But I
PB> guess you could say that my signs are a little different from
PB> everyone else. Maybe not the signs, just the grammer.
Yes, this is a topic that fascinates me... I wonder if it is at all
possible for a second-language signer to become good enough so that
first-language signers cannot tell the difference. Probably is - I
was told that I only needed three more years to become totally
proficient. The person that told me that was a first-language
signer, and didn't know how long I'd been signing for so he was
basing his estimate on the normal rate of progress. The grammar was
fine, I just needed to know and incorperate more signs.
One thing that pissed me off while I was trying to learn signing,
is that deaf people are so accomodating of differences in others.
They'd look at my signing, and modulate their level so it was equal
to mine. They'd never say "this is a better way to say that" or
"you didn't sign that correctly".
I think I've been mainly holding myself back in signing, as when
people are willing to listen to me, I get tense and consequently,
my signing is awful. This hardly helps people be willing again.
I remember when I got mildly pissed (drunk) one night at a deaf
football meet, and I met someone I had known at the Oral School.
Because I was totally relaxed, I was signing away nineteen to the
dozen (very fast) - so fast and accurately that I was amazing
myself. She said that I signed so quickly she couldn't believe it,
and she didn't have any trouble understanding me either. That went
on for about an hour and a half, and since then, its been fumble
fumble. Grr.
PB> Since I have been around deaf people for more than half my life, I
PB> don't have much trouble understanding them. Some of them have
PB> trouble understanding me though.
Some had trouble understanding me too, as I was trying to learn the
Auslan grammar, and leaving out the unneccesary joining words.
Unfortunately, I left out some of the important words too! ;-)
PB> The hardest thing for me is to talk and sign at the same time. I
PB> can do one, or the other, but not both. I get confused!!!
Likewise for me! I have the same problem! I can either do Signed
English and sign what I'm speaking (very slow, as you can see how
verbose I am! And also because I use a lot of words which have no
sign equivalent), or I can alternate speaking and signing. (which
I've never done, since it looks so damn ridiculous!)
Phew! End of Book!
PS. I wonder if this will get forwarded into SilentTalk...
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!Stephen.White
Internet: Stephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgPaul.Bergeron@f27.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Bergeron) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10878
Ok, here goes.........
(1) How did I lear Signs?
After I became deaf, I went to the La. School for the deaf. Everyone
there signed, but mstly they just fingerspelled. That is about all I
learned there. I learned how to do full signs in college in a sign
language class that was required of deaf people in the program there.
(2) How dod I feel when I became deaf?
Well, It really didn't bother me. When I first began to lose my
hearing, the doctors thought it was only temporary. By the time we
found out it was permanent, I was used to it.
(3) How do I feel about being deaf now?
I like it. Being deaf has actually helped me see more about how the
world really is. When you don't hear all The BS that everyone else
hears everyday, you are able to make decisions on what you feel is
right. Not because you heard it fro someone els, but because it is what
you truly feel.
(4) How do others treat me because I am deaf.
Well, some people act funny. They don't treally know about deafness,
and think deaf people must be stupid. some people are amazed that I can
drive, work, and do everything anyone else can do. Then there are other
people who are very understanding, and treat me as their equal.
(5) How did my parents react, and did they learn signs?
Well, my parents were afraid at first. They were always worrying that I
might get hit by a car when riding my bike or something. My mother
learned how to fingerspell, and so did my sister. They did not try to
make me be like they wanted me to be. I did what ever I wanted, and
they finally realized that my deafness wasn't going to change things in
the family much.
(6) What sort of facilities are available to the deaf in america?
Well, there is not really much. there are a few deaf clubs in our area,
but everyone is always bickering and fighting. I quit the local club
about 6 years ago because of that. I still go to partys and such, but
am not a member of any group.
(7) What is my feelig towards deaf people in general.
Well, I have lot's of deaf friends. I see many of them at work
everyday. I get along fine with most of them. I haven't dated a deaf
girl in the past 5 years. It is hard to find a deaf girlfriend, because
I have known all the deaf girls for over 15 years. We are all friends.
Know what I mean.
(8) What is it like living in America. What is racial tension??
Well, I am happy with my life. I don't think I will ever live anywhere
else except in the New Orleans Area. As for Racial tensions, A persons
race doesn't bother me at all. I am white, but have dated black and
hispanic women. I think everyone is equal.
NOTE: The answers you gave me to questions 6,7,8, were cut off by this
bbs. It has a limit of 50 lines. Could you answer them for me again?
(9) How old am I? (22)?
I wish. I guess I am the opposite of you. I am 32, going on 18!!!
(10) Is there an Inner core in the deaf community who don't get along
with people who become deaf late in life?
There are none here that I know of. I do know a few deaf people whose
parents don't want them to sign, but most deaf people here welcome
anyone. People in NewOrleans seem to be really easy going and friendly.
(11) How Deaf am I.
Just about as deaf as you can be. I don't really know, or care. I am
happy the way i am.
(12) what are my hobbies? Job?
Well, you could probably guess that my main hobby is computers. I have
been foling around with many different types of computers for almost 10
years. I work for the U.S. Navy in their printing and publications
plant. I am sor of a Supervisor (working leaderman) for the bindery
department.
(13) what do I think of deaf people,.
Well, like you say, some are shallow, and only want to stay in their own
little world. They are always trying to get me to go to deaf functions
and such that I am not interested. But mostly, I think they are pretty
OK.
Guess that's the last question. I have to go now and help my
girlfriend's sister with her new computer. The only thing she has
figured out is how to tun it on!!!
L8r,
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!27!Paul.Bergeron
Internet: Paul.Bergeron@f27.n396.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (10/13/90)
Index Number: 11104
Steph, interesting. For the most part your experience parallels mine.
Theonly difference is that IO became rather proficient with ASL and
Signed English. I too did not really pick up sign language until I
entered Gallaudet. I kind of took to it naturally.
Like you, my signs get awkward when I use Sim Com, unless I talk in
a deliberate manner.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org