[misc.handicap] OUTSPOKEN FOR THE APPLE MACINTOSH

CUTWAYS@QUCDN.BITNET (Steve Cutway) (10/20/90)

Index Number: 11204

[This is from the BLIND-L mailing list]

Hello everyone:

I'm looking for an OUTSPOKEN "MAC" user! Now I realize that many
"MAC" users are, in fact, "outspoken" when it comes to comparing
their machines to the IBM PC, but in this case, I mean the screen
review program from Berkeley Systems.

At Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario Canada, we sell and
support both IBM and Apple products. As part of my job, I am
supposed to evaluate computers for their useability by disabled
persons. I haven't been able to knowledgeably recommend the
Macintosh because of its inaccessibility to me as a blind person,
until the advent of OUTSPOKEN. But before we invest a lot of money
both in hardware & software, I'd like to know if the expense is
justified. I have read all the company literature about OUTSPOKEN,
but have never seen a review in any of the many periodicals on
technology that I subscribe to.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can be of help.

Steve Cutway Coordinator of Information Access Technology
Computing and Communications Services
Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada K7L 3N6
PHONE: (613) 545-6354           EMAIL: CUTWAYS@QUCDN.QueensU.CA

CBLIH@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (CB Lih) (10/20/90)

Index Number: 11207

[This is from the BLIND-L mailing list]

On Thu, 18 Oct 90 15:51:27 CDT <CUTWAYS@QUCDN> said:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I'm looking for an OUTSPOKEN "MAC" user! Now I realize that many "MAC" users
-----------    Mr. Cutway is asking about a program called outSPOKEN
-----------  a screen reading package for the Mac from Berkeley Systems.

   Here's a brief reply.

I've had a little experience with the software.  It seems to work
fine with word processors and window management.  The system has a
certain amount of flexibility with parameters for tone, pitch,
volume, and speed.  You would have to 'teach' the program about
what to say when cursor is over an icon.  Without intruction some
graphic parts of the screen are labeled 'icon' or 'symbol'.  It has
several options that deal with such issues as cursor and insertion
bar movement.  The program uses the ten key pad as an input
device.  Movement around a window or screen or dialog box is
handled by the key pad.  Documentation comes in written, braille,
and audio tape formats.

  A few negative comments:

The Mac operatiing system loses a lot of it's user friendly-ness
when you have to learn it with this product.  That's not too
surprising; it is a visual interface.  However, you might think
twice about asking a blind user to learn it if they can use
comperable software on an MS-DOS machine.  It doesn't work with
HyperCard.  I've had the program for several months and they may
have upgraded since I received it (although I don't think it has),
but HyperCard is just too graphic oriented for this screen reader.
One reason I purchased the package was in hopes of helping a blind
music student use the Music Department's composition software.  It
wasn't compatible.  A Berkeley representative at the spring
MacWorld told me their developer used outSPOKEN with a music
package but the rep didn't know which package.  As the student
found other solutions (without outSPOKEN) I haven't contacted
Berkeley again to get the name.

Well, I *thought* it was going to be a brief reply!  One last note
-- the written documentation had no illustrations.  Illustrations
would have made it much more useful for me (I am sighted).

> Thanks in advance to anyone who can be of help.
>
    You're welcome.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-->   CB Lih   <--=
Macintosh Support / Disabled Student Computer Support
BITNET: CBLIH@UAFSYSB    AppleLink: U0669    Phone: 501-575-2905
US Mail: ADSB 220, University of Arkansas
         155 Razorback Road, Fayetteville, AR 72701, USA

maner@bgsuvax.uucp (Walter Maner) (10/24/90)

Index Number: 11245

>From article <15078@bunker.UUCP>, by CBLIH@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (CB Lih):
> Index Number: 11207
> 
>   A few negative comments:
> 
> The Mac operatiing system loses a lot of it's user friendly-ness
> when you have to learn it with this product.

Much of the friendliness of the Mac interface is due to the fact that it is
largely mode-less.  You do not have to be in a particular mode to do most
things; you just do them.  OutSpoken retains this important aspect of the
Mac interface.  The comparable product from I B M, Screen Reader, so far
does not provide mode-less interaction with O S 2.  For example, you cannot
go directly from one open window to another without opening a window
selection menu.  Screen Reader may decide to provide mode-less functionality
once it becomes an official product in a couple of years.  A version of the
I B M Screen Reader already exists for the DOS world.  I have been talking
about the version under development for O S 2.

> However, you might think twice about asking a blind user to learn it if
> they can use comperable software on an MS-DOS machine. 

Within five years or less, most of the DOS world will have made a transition
to a windowing environment of some type which will pose almost exactly the
same access problems as the Mac.

> It doesn't work with HyperCard. ... HyperCard is just too graphic oriented
> for this screen reader.

Berkeley Systems is working on a new version of outSpoken which will support
HyperCard.  Greg Vanderheiden has also been giving HyperCard access some
attention at the Trace Center.  The problem is that HyperCard violates
Apple's own guidelines for manipulating video memory.  In particular, it
often performs direct writes to video RAM instead of relying on the
off-screen model used by most non-HyperCard software.  (Maybe this has been
fixed in HyperCard 2.0, but I doubt it.) In the past, outSpoken has depended
on having access to the off-screen model, which rules out HyperCard for the
time being.  By the way, most programmers who write for O S 2 will probably
use an off-screen model since I B M has made is very difficult to address
video RAM directly.

The original version of outSpoken released more than a year ago is still the
current version of the product.  In the next few months, Berkeley Systems
plans to overhaul the code completely.

WALT
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alistair@MINSTER.YORK.AC.UK (Alistair Edwards) (10/24/90)

Index Number: 11246

[This is from the BLIND-L mailing list]

I have replied by mail to Carl, offering to send him a copy of a draft
evaluation of Outspoken which I have been working on. I am happy to extend
that offer to anyone else who is interested, on the understanding that: (1) I
would appreciate feedback and comments in return an (2) it is still a draft,
and I would not want it distrubuted further or quoted in its current form.

I could supply it in the following formats:
	print by snail mail
	MS-Word RTF format by email
	text by email - but you loose the extras, like the diagrams
	braille - as above, and with a slight delay

Alistair

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