Aaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Aaron Feldman) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10537
I am adressing this to you becasue you have been kind enough to be
the ice breaker for me on the SIG. I would like to address the topic
of marriage etc. One of the biggest griefs in my life is that it is
felt by my community that I must NOT marry given my condition. There
is no one that will even make me an introduction. I am only able to
work part time so my wages are meager and it is felt not sufficient
for a family. It hurts me because the community in which I live I am
the only single male I know of my age range (31). this makes it even
harder to relate and be a part of the group. I have noted a tremendous
change in myself these last 5 years because as one by one my friends
have married off and the only people I know are single students who
now seem to young to befriend as I had once before there is an alienation
and emotional isolation that was not there before. well enough of my
woes but if you or someone wants to pick up this topic I would appreciate
it.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!204!Aaron.Feldman
Internet: Aaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.orgMarda.Anderson@f9.n393.z1.fidonet.org (Marda Anderson) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10551
I can relate to many of your concerns about singleness versus marriage.
On the eve of my 38th birthday I feel like I'm getting older and older
and not getting the things out of life that I'd like. I've had
relationships before but many of the people ended up not being able to
accept my blindness. I have quite a few male friends, but a lot of the
single ones are younger too so I know how that is. Unfortunately, there
are no easy answers. I wish I had one. Of course, I get angry when I
hear that nobody will even give you introductions because of the way they
feel about your income and disability. The only thing I know to do is to
try to get in situations where I will meet other people. It's hard for
me because I'm not particularly outgoing but I know I've got to make the
effort to reach out to others even though it is fraught with risks.
That's easier said than done, of course. I too am on a limited income
and realize that it is a problem but I don't think either your income or
your disability should have any bearing on whether you marry or not,
unless maybe you marry someone who just wants to stay home and be taken
care of. Cer tainly there are many people with disabilities which are
considered severe who are happily married, so don't give up.
marda
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!393!9!Marda.Anderson
Internet: Marda.Anderson@f9.n393.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Parsons@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Parsons) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10559 Hi Aaron, >"I am adressing this to you becasue you have been kind enough to be >"the ice breaker for me on the SIG. Well, thanks. I appreciate that. >"I would like to address the >"topic of marriage etc. One of the biggest griefs in my life is >"that it is felt by my community that I must NOT marry given my >"condition. There is no one that will even make me an introduction. Hmmm, Well, I can see that some people might feel that way and unfortunately that is how most of the world sees it. But there are special people around, you know. I found one. If God wants you to play on a team, He'll find you someone. Are you bound by the views of your community? Could you find companionship elsewhere? Do you have any hobbies/interests which would take you away from home/community/job for at least a few hours? Do you know about The Action Center for the Disabled? They have programs for all kinds of people. They include concerts, movies, plays, picnics, dances, swimming etc.They are going on a camping trip this weekend at Latchworth park. >"I am only able to work part time so my wages are meager and it is >"felt not sufficient for a family. Who says that a single income is sufficient any more? Most households have two wage earners. >"It hurts me because the >"community in which I live I am the only single male I know of my >"age range (31). this makes it even harder to relate and be a part >"of the group. I have noted a tremendous change in myself these >"last 5 years because as one by one my friends have married off and >"the only people I know are single students who now seem to young >"to befriend as I had once before there is an alienation and >"emotional isolation that was not there before. Yes, I can see that this might be the case. I think that often it may be harder for men with disabilities than it is for women. I can only speak for myself. I feel that if romance comes, great! But, I am not seeking it actively. I have had relationships, indeed, my last one was superb, but he died. So, there 'tis. >"well enough of my >"woes but if you or someone wants to pick up this topic I would >"appreciate it. there has been some discussion about this topic in recent weeks. Check back messages, and look forward to further replies. Ann P. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!204!Ann.Parsons Internet: Ann.Parsons@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org
Floria.Antin@f304.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Floria Antin) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10560 > marriage etc. One of the biggest griefs in my life is that it is felt > by my community that I must NOT marry given my condition. There is no > one that will even make me an introduction. I am only able to work > part time so my wages are meager and it is felt not sufficient for a > family. It hurts me because the community in which I live I am the > only single male I know of my age range (31). this makes it even > harder to relate and be a part of the group. I have noted a tremendous > change in myself these last 5 years because as one by one my friends > have married off and the only people I know are single students who > now seem to young to befriend as I had once before there is an I have read your posts in this echo and I would like to offer some suggestions. If there is an MS support group in your area you shoukld join it. It helps to talk with others who face similar situatiions. It lets you know that you are not alone. Often it has been suport groups and/or advocate groups that have changed how society treated people with disabilities. What is your community? How large is it? Perhaps you should broaden your horizons. I am the parent of an adult with severe mental retardation. I know how helpful and theraputic it was for me when I first joined a group of parents that also had children with mental retardation. Here were people who knew what I was talking about. I no longer felt alone. I also learned of resources available (this was before an education for all children was a right). Today my adult child lives in a group home with four other adults and staff and attends a day activity program. There was a time that the level of the disability would have precluded anything (outside of livingat home) other than a large state institution. The recent passage of the ADA by congress was the result of intense lobbying by advocates for fair treatment of persons with disabilites. Do not let others define for you what you can and cannot do. Certainly there are people withMS who both date and marry. e -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!304!Floria.Antin Internet: Floria.Antin@f304.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Bill.Higgins@f122.n249.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Higgins) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10597
Aaron:
I'm a Christian myself but I can tell you that what you are
experiencing is not just confined to a certian culture or belief
(no offence intended). I find that there are many pretty women out
there but they don't seem to acknowledge that fact that I'm trying
to start something when I talk to them.
I have always had the impression that most able bodied women are
looking for men of the same physical status (ie lobido [sp?]). Or
they write me off in their minds as mentally defiencent. well I
would like to say that I have just as healthy drive (sex) as most
of the men in our society and I can earn a living, buy a home,
drive a car, cook, clean (within reasonable limits), fix broken
items and pay taxes (gasp for air).
So chin up! Batching it isn't so bad. In fact I myself am not
committed to any one in particular at this time as well. I enjoy my
freedom and am not in any hurry to settle down with a wife and
children as of yet. You yourself are young and I'm sure you'll find
somebody compatible one day. The trick is not to let anyone say
that you can't marry just because you have a disability. I think
that above all is the worst form of disability. Now don't take this
as gospel but if your culture forbids marriage then mabe you should
speed with your Rabbi about the frustration of this restriction
that is causing you such grief. I'm sure that ther is some way to
happiness for you in the dating game.
Well enough (damage done?) said!! TTFN!!!
If all else fails, REBEL!!! <evil grin>
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!249!122!Bill.Higgins
Internet: Bill.Higgins@f122.n249.z1.fidonet.orgRon.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10604
AP> unfortunately that is how most of the world sees it. But there
AP> are special people around, you know. I found one. If God wants
AP> you to play on a team, He'll find you someone.
Yeah, and if God had wanted us to get out of bed in the morning, he
would have made beds vertical. OK, Ann, I gotta call you on this one.
We are all responsible for the qualities of our own lives and have to
work to improve them the extent that we can. I know you're not making
a case for careless grooming and a foul personality and then throwing
yourself in the hands of God to help you find a mate.
A belief in help from God is fine, but in practice you can wait a very
long time for Him to deliver. I'll quote Rabbi Hillel here for about
the 10th time, "Pray as if the world depended on God; Act as if the
world depended on you."
Remember the joke about the guy who prayed every night to win the
lottery -- His prayers were good, but after a month God asked him a
favor -- please buy a lottery ticket.
-rsr-
... When spider webs unite, they can tie up a lion. - Ethiopian proverb
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Ron.Rothenberg
Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgRon.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10605
AF> mobile and looking for such in a mate. The religious life or
AF> living to serve G-d's view of humankind os oft times lost and
AF> you can not blame any one person or group. I think I am just
AF> saying its hard to be *so different* sometimes and not to be
AF> considered as an *eligible* marriage partner. Pls take care
AF> Aaron
By the way, I am a real estate broker. About half my customers are
disabled. Most of my customers are married. In some of the marriages
one partner is disabled, in some both. I notice that most of the
disabled customers have happier marriages and better lives then the
others. It is clear to me that a disability does not detract from the
potential happiness of marriage, in fact, I suspect it may add to the
recognition of what's important in life and enhance marriage.
Just one man's observation.
-rsr-
... Only the shallow know themselves. - Oscar Wilde
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Ron.Rothenberg
Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgTSWILLIAMS@GALLUA.BITNET (Sly Fox) (09/25/90)
Index Number: 10614
hey ttfn how come you can do anything normal but never be able to
get bodily ladies huh.....my suggestion is open conversation,treat
them nicely tell these ladies you do adore them and need their help
for your satisfation (70 %) it will work as they will feel sorry
for ya!!! let me know how you did in
the next time dudeera@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold) (09/30/90)
Index Number: 10678 In article <14320@bunker.UUCP> Aaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org writes: >Index Number: 10537 > >I am adressing this to you becasue you have been kind enough to be >the ice breaker for me on the SIG. I would like to address the topic >of marriage etc. One of the biggest griefs in my life is that it is >felt by my community that I must NOT marry given my condition. There >is no one that will even make me an introduction. Well, Aaron: I assume you mean that no ABLEd person will make you an introduction. That's their problem. Let me tell you about a little book (actually, more like a pamphlet) I just read. The book is entitled "Circles of Friends", by Robert and Martha Perske, and was published by Abingdon Press (Nashville), 1988. Story 4 in the book, "Friends Circle to Save a Life," tells the story of Judith Snow. I happened to meet Ms. Snow last year and her disability is quite obvious: she doesn't move much of anything below her neck, except for one of her thumbs that operates the motor on her chair. Yet, Ms. Snow was engaged in 1987, and is now married. This happened because she has broad-reaching interests and is involved in virtually everything, in spite of her disabilities. The key is involvement. Let me tell you a little secret. I am ABLEd, but I work with a committee that includes a woman who is a C5-C6 quad. I like her a lot. I would like to ask her out, and I think she might take me up on it, but ... I'm already married. So, such things aren't impossible; it's just a matter of meeting enough persons who are open enough to see through the disability. -- Ed Arnold * NCAR * POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307-3000 * 303-497-1253(voice) 303-497-1137(fax) * era@ncar.ucar.edu [128.117.64.4] * era@ncario.BITNET era@ncar.UUCP * Edward.Arnold@f809.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
sbishop@desire.wright.edu (Sue Bishop) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10686 In article <14320@bunker.UUCP>, Aaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Aaron Feldman) writes: > Index Number: 10537 > > I am adressing this to you becasue you have been kind enough to be > the ice breaker for me on the SIG. I would like to address the topic > of marriage etc. One of the biggest griefs in my life is that it is > felt by my community that I must NOT marry given my condition. There > is no one that will even make me an introduction. I am only able to > work part time so my wages are meager and it is felt not sufficient > for a family. It hurts me because the community in which I live I am > the only single male I know of my age range (31). this makes it even > harder to relate and be a part of the group. I have noted a tremendous > change in myself these last 5 years because as one by one my friends > have married off and the only people I know are single students who > now seem to young to befriend as I had once before there is an alienation > and emotional isolation that was not there before. well enough of my > woes but if you or someone wants to pick up this topic I would appreciate > it. > Sounds like you need to move! Perhaps a larger community that would have more people and also one where you would be able to be more accepted as a person and not as someone they have known for years. Smaller communities seem to be more involved in watching what others do and how they act. Also have you attended college? I work at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. We are THE premier university in the nation for handicapped students, particularly people who are wheel chair bound. Our buildings are all connected by underground tunnels, there are all kinds of equipment available to assist if you have a particular handicap and the university is extremely sensitive to the needs of the handicapped students. Give us a look!
deforest@hpihoah.cup.hp.com (Martha de Forest) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10789 > >Also have you attended college? I work at Wright State University >in Dayton, Ohio. We are THE premier university in the nation for >handicapped students, particularly people who are wheel chair >bound. Our buildings are all connected by underground tunnels, >there are all kinds of equipment available to assist if you have a >particular handicap and the university is extremely sensitive to >the needs of the handicapped students. Give us a look! >---------- Along the same lines, De Anza Community College in Cupertino, CA (Silicon Valley) has a huge handicapped population. They have the largest handicapped population in the California Higher School System (so I am told), and many of the wheelchair atheletes compete at the national and international levels. There are about 6 million people in the Bay Area and at least one of is probably to your liking. Good Luck!! Martha deforest@hpda.cup.hp.com
Nadine.Thomas@p59.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.org (Nadine Thomas) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10812
In a message to All <25 Sep 90 8:55:00> Sly Fox wrote:
SF> hey ttfn how come you can do anything normal but never be able to
SF> get bodily ladies huh.....my suggestion is open conversation,treat
SF> them nicely tell these ladies you do adore them and need their help
SF> for your satisfation (70 %) it will work as they will feel sorry
SF> for ya!!! let me know how you did in
Sorry Sly Fox, but from personal experience I can tell you that
most women I Know will not play the GAME you suggest.
Being yourself and being HONEST and being REAL are the keys to
socialization for everyone - no one had to be special or have a
disability to do them - it is equal opportunity when it comes to
the keys. That does not mean the results will necessarily be as
quickly as one who is abled-bodied but the results can be
obtained.
I am not so silly as to think that women (or men) would be beating
down our doors but I do know there are wonderful people out there
who take people at their INNER strengths rather then outer "beauty"
or outer "perfection" and I would rather not take the chance of
turning them off by NOT being real.
Nadine
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!360!1.59!Nadine.Thomas
Internet: Nadine.Thomas@p59.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.orgAaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Aaron Feldman) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11035
I will have to answer your question the best I am able. I would need a
learned Rabbi to give a good response. But I think the general idea is
that these are the conditions that would most likely led a man to
feeling despair. And further when a person is full of despair s/he feels
not like doing much or anything s/he is overwhelmend with hopeless and
helplessness and when one is in that state it is likened to a death for
the person is not able to serve themself or G-d.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!204!Aaron.Feldman
Internet: Aaron.Feldman@f204.n260.z1.fidonet.orgmattioli@took.dec.com (John R. Mattioli) (10/12/90)
Index Number: 11063 In article <14645@bunker.UUCP>, Nadine.Thomas@p59.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.org (Nadine Thomas) writes... >Index Number: 10812 > >In a message to All <25 Sep 90 8:55:00> Sly Fox wrote: > > SF> hey ttfn how come you can do anything normal but never be able to > SF> get bodily ladies huh.....my suggestion is open conversation,treat > SF> them nicely tell these ladies you do adore them and need their help > SF> for your satisfation (70 %) it will work as they will feel sorry > SF> for ya!!! let me know how you did in > >Sorry Sly Fox, but from personal experience I can tell you that >most women I Know will not play the GAME you suggest. > I agree. Most women will not play those sorts of games and they shouldn't have to either. If it came down to a choice between somebody dating me because they felt sorry for me, and not dating anyone, I think I'd rather sit home in my living room doing nothing. But then there are the women who will complicate the picture. These are the few women who do feel sorry for you, yet are also very nice people that you'd like to date. These people "want" to help, they "enjoy" helping, you get along fine, you care about each other, but... Sudenly, for no good reason, this person will get tired of helping. Now where are you? You're dating nobody and you've gotten hurt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Mattioli Most improved skier (american blind skiers association 1989) and humble to! (DEC E-NET) TOOK::MATTIOLI (UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!TOOK.dec.com!MATTIOLI (ARPA) MATTIOLI@TOOK.dec.com MATTIOLI%TOOK.dec.com@decwrl.dec.com (US MAIL) John Mattioli 550 King St. LKG2-2/BB9 Littleton, Ma. 01460
Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (10/12/90)
Index Number: 11070
AF> living man. My heart does despair which interfers with serving G-d.
AF> the ways of serving are through family, marriage, children.
Serve God by becoming a teacher or family counselor. I
taught with a Jewish women who was committed to the single life.
She was a devout Jew and in addition to teaching elementary
school she volunteer at the Jewish Community Center as a
counselor and worker with the elderly. There are many ways to
serve God without being married.
-=joe=-
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Joe.Chamberlain
Internet: Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.orgJulie.Aman@f120.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Julie Aman) (10/18/90)
Index Number: 11183
Aaron,
You indicate that your friends are married. Get to know their
spouses. What *should* happen when a friend marrys is that you gain
a new friend in your friend's spouse. (if s/he weren't worth
befriending, your friend wouldn't be marrying her/him)
It is not uncommon for both spouses to work to support a family,
so the sufficiency of your income is not a real issue. What do you
do, anyway? Are there opportunities to meet people at your jobsite?
Are you a religious person? If so, there are usually non-worship
group activities sponsored by most churches/synagogues. The most
important thing is *don't give up*!
I met my SO (significant other) at a local science fiction
convention. People are everywhere, so there is always hope that
*the* person is there, waiting to become acquainted with you.
TCOY,
- Julie
~ SLMR 1.0 ~ Intelligence is the *ultimate* aphrodisiac.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!226!120!Julie.Aman
Internet: Julie.Aman@f120.n226.z1.fidonet.orgJulie.Aman@f120.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Julie Aman) (10/24/90)
Index Number: 11266 >the women don't work. You are right though that I need to work on my >attitute that my friend has married and that does bring another person >into my social orbit. Thanks again, Aaron Aaron, If these women, your friends' wives, decide you would be a good husband for one of their sisters or nieces or cousins, they might influence the other people in your community and you could be "matched" with someone. Keep your chin up and DO NOT GIVE UP! I don't know much about your religious tradition (just what I've gathered over this echo and Chaim Potok's _My_Name_is_Asher_Lev_ so pardon my ignorance.) I do not know what Scriptures your faith has in common with mine, but in the King James version of the 23rd Psalm, it says... The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul; he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before in the presence of mine enemies; thou anointest my head with oil, my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. TCOY, - Julie * SLMR 1.0 * Only the shallow know themselves. - Oscar Wilde -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!226!120!Julie.Aman Internet: Julie.Aman@f120.n226.z1.fidonet.org