Christine.Selfe@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Christine Selfe) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11030
In america The deaf are looked on in different ways. Most hearies are
afraid of us deafies. (as if we are gonna buite em or something)
It is interesting the attitudes of people at times. For example, because
I have some slight residual hearing I am able to converse with hearing
people a good deal of the time. Yet the minute a person finds out about
my deafness the attitude sudden;ly changes, they start moving their lips
in funny shapes and even yelling at me or worse, they shut up and
act scared or something.
However, on the whole, I would say that America is making tremendous
strides in efforts in communicating with deaf and hearing impaired
people. I am constantly educating people on the best way to communicate
with someone whohas a hearing impairment.
The most frustrating thing for me to deal with now is the Education
question.. residential schools versus mainstreaming programs versus
oralism. For myself , I was thought to ne retarded until I was age
eight, at which point some brainy teacher finally persuaded the
schools to test my hearing. She pointed out that considering the fact
that I was reading fluently by the age of five, without formal
schooling,, there is no way in h*** I could be retarded.
I hear the same horror story all over america still.
So the attitudes while still not completely in the dark ages , require a
lot of improvement.
I am curious as to the Australian Methods of educating the deaf.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!147.0!Christine.Selfe
Internet: Christine.Selfe@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.orgStephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (Stephen White) (10/17/90)
Index Number: 11133
CS> In america The deaf are looked on in different ways. Most hearies
CS> are afraid of us deafies. (as if we are gonna buite em or
CS> something)
Tell them that you prefer your meat cooked. I don't think a male
deafie could say that though! ;-)
CS> minute a person finds out about my deafness the attitude sudden;ly
CS> changes, they start moving their lips in funny shapes and even
Yup! Exactly the same here! I politely inquire if they have a
toothache, and that usually stops them...
CS> For myself , I was thought to ne retarded until I was age eight,
CS> at which point some brainy teacher finally persuaded the
CS> schools to test my hearing. She pointed out that considering the
CS> fact that I was reading fluently by the age of five, without
CS> formal schooling,, there is no way in h*** I could be retarded.
Man: XXX, tell me the answer to the following questions. Feel free
not to answer if you don't know the answer to the question. Do
you understand?
XXX: <watching a fly, and it drops downwards> Nods.
Man: What is the capital city of America?
XXX: <silence>
Man: Who is the president of America?
XXX: <silence>
Man: What is one plus one?
XXX: <bored - starts picking nose and working out an interesting
problem in quantum mechanics>
Man: <frowning a bit> What colour is the sky?
XXX: <Yawns - solves problem of how to have faster than light
spaceships running off an AAA cell>
Man: Hmm, I guess she's retarded...
******** The following day ********
Dear Mr and Mrs YYY,
We have subjected your daughter, XXX, to the most stringent and
rigourous scientific testing available in medical science, and we
regret to inform you that she is significantly retarded. Her IQ is
as follows:
<Bit of computer printing to make it look snazzy>
43.141592654
You may contact the National Health Department for further
information - they can assist you in the purchase of a wheelchair
and a very large microwave oven.
Yours,
Dr Bladdensnort, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.
***********************************
CS> I am curious as to the Australian Methods of educating the deaf.
What methods? The idea basically seems to be to shove them into
little sub-schools, provide teachers that are barely capable of
signing the alphabet let alone Signed English or Auslan, and get
them to translate the odd word now and then from the teachers who
are teaching the hearing students.
They consider their job well done if the students get a job making
cars. (Yes, a bit sarcastic here, but...)
CS> I still have some trouble with signs even though it has been ten
CS> years or more now since..
What parts of signing do you have trouble with? My main problem is
relaxing enough, and trying to sign too fast.
CS> Part of the reason for this is that when one uses voice they are
CS> in reality speaking two languages at the same time. A feat i'd
CS> like to see some hearing people do with voice.
Listen to a woman sometime, any woman, but over 50 is preferred.
They can fit a years worth of FidoNet transmissions into 5 minutes
of nagging.
<deliberate provokation - I'm a cheeky sod, I am!>
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!Stephen.White
Internet: Stephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgChristine.Selfe@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Christine Selfe) (10/24/90)
Index Number: 11253
My but you do have a way with words!
First off my reaction was to laugh, but underneath it all is a bit of
sadness. Because of the tragedy involved.. after all this is a person's
life those so called professionals are dealing with.
And if you kne]
It sounds to me as if deaf Aussies have the same troubles we deaf United
States folk have.. and I suspect, Deaf Canadians as well.
The question is how do we handle them ?
Right now the National Association for the Deaf (NAD) here in USA is
working to change the attitudes of educators of deaf children ..
There is a very very big and hot ... so hot I just burned myself..
(ouch, Chris runs for the water faucet and turns it on cold then sticks
here aching burned hands under the water)
Debate. There are those dummies on the one side who push some stupid
method called oralism.You know.. the kind where the teacher stands in
front of you and makes you repeate again and again a..no, not e.. a,
I, no, not a.. i... so forth and so on... till the poor kid has gone
through about ten years of his life in school learning not how to read,
write or add one plus one andmake two.. but how to porperly say the
letter a.! Very very educational let me tell you!
then on the other side is the group that advocatesthe use of sing
language only in educating the kiddies.. this group teaches a form of
isolationism in that the kids never learn to really communicate with
those folk who are handicapped in their ability to sign.. about tow
thirds of the rest of the world... this is the group that would prefer
to have a world in which all deaf folk are on one side of the spectrum
and hearing folk on the other side and woe to those who would dare to
cross over.
Then there is the smart group of educators.. this is the group that
advocates total communication in all situations, for those deaf that are
able to use voice at all, they are encouraged but not required to
utilize that skill along with thier preferred sign language method.
this is the group that teaches the kids the value of deaf culture ,
encourgages them to mix with other deaf folk, yet , at the same time
also teaches them the value of communicating with the hearing world,,
this is the world the kids will be growing up in. Later on getting jobs
in, raising families in. Why exclude either deaf or hearing from your
life ?
Sorry for the long monolgue.. but as you can see it is an issue which
affecta me deeply,, especially as I am one of those Deaf folk who can
communicate equally well with both deaf and hearies, and am getting fed
up with being bombarded with " you are deaf.. why the **** are you
talking with those hearing folk for ? Or.. "why Chris, how wonderful of
you to be able to talk to those poor deaf people.. how did you learn
sign language so well? Chris replies" I am deaf myself" Oh, but you
talk so well...why bother learning sign language at all?"
Vhris groans in exasperation.........
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!147.0!Christine.Selfe
Internet: Christine.Selfe@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (10/26/90)
Index Number: 11277
I could upload you guys some great internal politics stuff about the
roles or non-roles of deaf people in institutions for the deaf. If
you want, i take the text file out of my wordprocessor and cram it
into the cho. Warning!!!!!!! It is a 13 page report put together by
deaf professionals on the situations at an institution. In other words
it is long, long, long , long and I do mean long.
You want?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgJohn.Kyle@f230.n231.z1.fidonet.org (John Kyle) (10/26/90)
Index Number: 11332
I saw your interesting reply to Sign Language part I, especially the
part about oralism, and felt I had to respond. First, oralism is NOT
always just teaching the kid to say the letter a. They do teach the
other stuff, like aritmetic, etc. That only teaching the letter a
would only apply to those deaf kids who can't use voice much anyway, so
there would be no point in teaching a anyway. I agree that total
communication is the better form, as a person in two worlds will likely
survive better if he/she learns to operate in both worlds, not just
one world. I am deaf enough to have to wear an aid, but not so deaf
that I can't use my voice very well. It's not perfect, but it's good
enough. When I was taught oralism, I certainly did not spend hours
just learning how to say the letter a. I went to a special school
in my preschooler years and learned how to speak there. Then I went
to an elementary school where I took classes with regular kids. I only
spent about an hour or two each week to learn more about speech and
practice it with a special teacher while I was there.
Maybe what's needed is that it should be recognized by everyone, deaf
and nondeaf, that there are degrees of deafness, not just deaf, or
nearly deaf, and that is what will determine how the child should learn
speech and/or sign language.
John Kyle
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!231!230!John.Kyle
Internet: John.Kyle@f230.n231.z1.fidonet.orgStephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (Stephen White) (10/26/90)
Index Number: 11336 CS> My but you do have a way with words! First off my reaction was to CS> laugh, but underneath it all is a bit of sadness. Words are a much more efficient weapon than violence. I wonder if the repeat offenders in jail would benefit from being taught verbal annilihation techniques? At the moment, they're expected to be a neutered member of society when they come out. CS> It sounds to me as if deaf Aussies have the same troubles we deaf CS> United States folk have.. and I suspect, Deaf Canadians as well. Oh, the human race as a whole is immature. Hence the universality of discrimination within the human spectrum. CS> after all this is a person's life those so called CS> professionals are dealing with. The question is how do we handle CS> them ? Hmm, I've a couple of nice ideas, but the problem is how do we get rid of remnants? I'm not sure that garbage disposal companies take liquified meat... CS> Debate. There are those dummies on the one side who push some CS> stupid method called oralism.You know.. the kind where the CS> teacher stands in front of you and makes you repeate again and CS> again a..no, not e.. a, Ahh, I'm a product of the oralism school. Fortunately, I've rubbed out the "Made in Hong Kong" label. "These people are guaranteed for the span of their useful working life." CS> but how to porperly say the letter a.! Very very educational let CS> me tell you! A text file I had... > Tyranny of Oralists against signers. > > By Laurent Clerc. > On an oralist trying to teach him to speak. > > Nothing was more important to the emergence of that self-knowledge > than my first act of defiance, for how is a boy to learn who he > really is without discarding who he is not? Significantly, the issue > was speech. Epee, and Sicard had the wisdom to see that the deaf as a > class could never be educated orally, but still they pandered to the > public enchantment with talking deaf-mutes. Thus sometimes, instead > of recreation afer supper, I and a few other promising pupils were > assigned to the abbe Margaron for articulation lessons. We learned to > articulate pretty well all the letters of the alphabet and many words > of one or two syllables. But I had great difficulty with the > distinction between da and ta, de and te, do and to, and so on. The > abbe would pull his chair up to my stool so close that our knees were > touching and I could see the fine network of veins on his bulbous > red-blue nose. He held my left hand firmly to his voice box and my > right hand on my own throat, and glowered down at me through beady, > rheumy eyes. Then his warm garlic-laden breath would wash over my > head and fill my nostrils to suffocating. > "Daaa," he wailed, exposing the wet pink cavern of his mouth, his > tounge obscenely writhing on its floor, barely contained by the > picket fence of little brown-and-yellow teeth. > "Taaa," he exploded, and the glistening pendant of tissue in the > back of his mouth flicked towards the roof, opening the floodgates to > the miasma that rose from the roiling contents of his stomach below. > "Taaa, daaa, teee, deee," he made me screech again and again, but > contort my face as I would, fighting back the tears, search as I > would desperately, in a panic, for the place in my mouth accurately > to put my tounge, convulse as I would my breathing - I succeeded no > better. > > I turned my back on them and walked away, towards my new family. I > have never spoken again. Fortunately my teachers used breath fresheners, but the process was similar. CS> this is the group that would prefer to have a world in which all CS> deaf folk are on one side of the spectrum and hearing folk on the CS> other side and woe to those who would dare to cross over. _____/\_____ / \ / /---\/---\ \ HAVE A SEAT! \ \ / / \ \ / / \|_ _|/ Now you too can join the _____ | | DEAF COMMUNITY! | | / -- /| /____/ | | | | | (Acme productions) Ooerr, perhaps I went a little overboard there! :-) CS> Sorry for the long monolgue.. Kettles don't have to apologise to the pot! CS> with being bombarded with " you are deaf.. why the **** are you CS> talking with those hearing folk for ? Or.. "why Chris, how CS> wonderful of you to be able to talk to those poor deaf people.. CS> how did you learn sign language so well? Chris replies" I am CS> deaf myself" Oh, but you talk so well...why bother learning sign CS> language at all?" Same here. As you've probably read, in another one of my tomes posted here, I keep getting thought of as hearing by people I've known for years. I'm learning to play the guitar, and when people query me about it, I say "I'm not fucking stone deaf you know! I'm only pumice stone deaf!" -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!Stephen.White Internet: Stephen.White@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org