James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (11/08/90)
Index Number: 11619
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
When i am using signed english I move my mouth. When I am using ASL,
I don't move my mouth. I assume you are referring to Gilbert Eastman.
He does not use his mouth when signing ASL-usually.
ASL is not syntactially compatable with English. It would practically
be prohibitive and mentally confusing to try to mouth what you are
signing when using ASl. If a person is a dyed in the woods deafie
(born deaf and used ASL all his or her life), you are very unlikely
to see much mouth movement. You will be seeing a true ASL presentation
by a native user.
That will include minimum or no mouth movement.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (11/08/90)
Index Number: 11623
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Yes, I was referring to Gilbert Eastman, however, the female commentator
of the TV series did move her mouth and was very easy to follow.
Most interpreters move their mouths when signing ASL, so to me,
I would think it would be common courtesy for all to move there mouths
when signing in front of those who do not sign.
Let me ask you something - why the labels of deafies and hearies?
I've never liked using labels and feel if we are ever going to break
the barriers that hamper us with others in the world, we are going
to have to drop those labels. We may be deaf or hard of hearing,
but gee whiz, why are we trying to make it such a big issue? I have
never felt there was anything I couldn't do other than hear over
the phone and now we all are able to use the phone. Not in the so-
called "normal" way but that doesn't make any difference - we can
do it just as well in another way.
I've always felt one is only handicapped or disabled if they let
themselves be...
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (11/08/90)
Index Number: 11629
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Well, Ann, mouthing or not mouthing is a matter of signing style and/or
background. Some deaf people simply do not even have the experience
with speech to know what mouth movement to use with what words. Now
if a person could hear at one time, they are more likely to mouth as
they sign. Or had a lot of speech training. A totally deafie could
and probably would be just the opposite by virtue of a lack of the
very backgrounds I just mentioned. Also, to be honest, using ASL with
speechor mouthing, puts a cognitive load on the "speaker" that can
make communicating feel rather awkward. For this reason, though I could
hear until age 13, I will not mouth if I am using ASL for an extensive
amount of time. You find your mind getting tangled up in how to express
certain concepts.
Now about my labels of deafies and hearies, it is this way. I am part
of the deaf culture. It is how we who see ourselves as deaf in the
heart as well as clinically deaf talk. We call ourselves deafies or
Deaf, we call the non-deaf people hearies or Hearing. I am not labeling
in the sense you mean it. It is what we call ourselves just like certain
Eskimo call themselves "The People" while referring to another tribe
as something that translates into "The Raw Fish Eaters." A poor example
probably, but think of what the Japanese call themselves (Nipponese,
which means civilized , I think) and they refer to the rest of us a
Ghyesin or something which means barbarians. Aw shoot, another poor
example.
Basically, what I am saying is thatevery culture has a name for themselves
and another name for non-culture members. It is not meant to hurt in
most cases, it is just a name that refers to the distinction between
themselves and others. I and deaf people have used these terms for
years. To date , theonly objection I have run into is yours. No offense
meant, but it is highly unlikely this cultural tendency will change.
We view it as an innocent and non-insulting term. I am a deafie, a
non-deafie is a hearie. I am a guy you are a gal. Hopefully, that doesn't
stand in the way of our ability to be friends regardless of the obvious
differences between us.
And you can ask me any question you want to and or tell me whatever
opinions you have. Learning as I have learned is a two way street (although
there are occasionally forks in the roads).
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgcas@mtdcb.att.com (Cliff Stevens) (11/09/90)
Index Number: 11649 Ann, I love you! I've been typing for years that labels are stupid, they label us by an unimportant characteristic. (I think the fact that I don't walk well is pretty trivial!) ------------ Militant Handicapped Survivor! Cliff Stevens MT1E228 att!cbnewsj!ncas (908)671-7292