Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10389
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Vick: to answer your question, we are not seeing as much of that
in state schools, because we are still pretty much bound by
publications put out by the American Printing House. However, it is
happening and I am not so sure that the desired learning from those
textbooks is taking place. That's something to think a little more
about. Thanks for the thought.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10518
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Vick: im my last message I certainly did not intend to imply that
state schools are not being affected by visual books. As the demands
at the state level change regarding textbooks, those schools will be
forced to change texts. Consequently, the Printinghouse, whether it
likes it or not, will be forced to transcribe them. Therein lies the
real challenge for transcribers. you are right. The learning process
is a facinating subject to study, and I'm not sure it is thoroughly
understood by anyone.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgDave.Tanner@p210.f1.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Tanner) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10526
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
The real question is whether the printing house will attempt to
keep up. I think that if you look at what they have done in the
past and what they are doing even in terms of their response to the
technology field for the blind it is apparent that A P H is way
behind the times. They are not known as being leaders in the
field. Remember, a company that doesn't have to respond to the
blind user because they have enough goverment sponsored contracts
to keep them going for a long time isn't going to be very quick to
respond to the needs and concerns of individual blind persons.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!1.210!Dave.Tanner
Internet: Dave.Tanner@p210.f1.n273.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (09/25/90)
Index Number: 10641
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Gary: you are so right. It seems that the older we get, the more
intelligent we seem to our kids. The debate about public verses
residential schools for the blind has been raging since 1865. Yet, it
is interesting, that in the beginning, no public school was willing
to even attempt to educate blind students. Not until residential
schools proved conclusively that blind children are in fact educable
did the public school consider the idea. This is not all bad, because
I am convinced that all blind students need to experience public
education some time in their lives. However, before doing so, they
need to have survival skills and high expectations academically
which, in my opinion, can only begin in a good school for the blind.
However, sadly today, most blind schools have been desimatedby
pl-94-142. O well, such is the price of change, but I can't help
wondering how many more generations of welfare blind must we educate
before we wise up.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10713
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Stew, rather than bringing you up too short, I'd hope that I could give
you at least a little bit of room for a springboard from wich to talk
about your views and perhaps let me know a little more about where you
are coming from.
For instance, in many schools today, someone with my amount of sight
would be "forced" to learn print (if any of the articles I've read are
any measure) but even though I'm not particularly crazy about the
school I went to, I'm still glad that I learned braille as my major way
of communicating. However, I do wish that maybe I could have learned
print in school as well. As it is, I'm pretty much self taught when it
comes to reading print.
Bill.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.orgTaryn.Mcginty@f114.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Taryn Mcginty) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10761
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
You know, it just takes a little maturity on the peer's side to realize
that some people need extra treatment, and they don't always need it because
of a disability. Sometimes it's just a family situation a person is in, it
could be anything. I've just learned that I need people as much as they need
me and if I help them, somewhere along the line, it comes back to me. What
goes around, comes around. And I think that by having disabled children in
the same setting as the "normal" children that it really helps every one
learn that. What is "normal"? Everyone is so different, I believe the is no
such thing. Terran.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!114!Taryn.Mcginty
Internet: Taryn.Mcginty@f114.n104.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10762
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Bill: well, to try and explain where I am coming from, I do not
agree that all partially sighteed prsons should learn Braille. For
many, who may never recognize the need for Braille, trying to teach
them that system is a waste of time. That is especially true if the
person in question has been exposed to print some where in his/her
education experience. On the other hand, if the prognosis of an
individual is eventual total blindness, or blindness to the extent
that the individual would not have sufficient sight to read print,
then I see it as my obligation as an educator to try and convince
that person that Braille should be learned. I believe that Braille
should be emphasized in every school, and for those who cannot read
print, or others who eventually will not be able to read in that
mode, Braille is a must. For me personally, there was no choice.
Since I can't see a hole through an iron pot, I had to learn Braille.
Maybe that was best. Who knows.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10768
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
->> SB> I am convinced that all blind students need to experience public
->> SB> education some time in their lives. However, before doing so, they
->> SB> need to have survival skills and high expectations academically
->> SB> which, in my opinion, can only begin in a good school for the blind.
->> SB> However, sadly today, most blind schools have been desimatedby
->> SB> pl-94-142. O well, such is the price of change, but I can't help
->> SB> wondering how many more generations of welfare blind must we educate
->> SB> before we wise up.
GP> Stew,
GP> I'm afraid that wising up will have to come from the
GP> parents, because it sure won't come from the mainstream
GP> education establishment.
We have raised a generation of virtually illiterate blind people
because they were forced to use large-print, tape, enlarging
devices, etc., methods which often do not work as well as braille.
Gary, the thing that will change this is these people themselves
realizing what has happened to them and setting out to change the
system. The parents can help, but the affected people will be able
to do the most. Some time ago, you and I had a conversation or two
about what good do the groups for the blind, NFB, etc., do. This
is a big part of it. For example, the NFB has been talking about
the braille literacy thing for a long time. Now, it is becoming a
part of the mainstream. AFB has adopted it as there issue. There
was a meeting in Baltimore last spring, at the NFB National Center,
including NFB, NLS, AERBVI and others. They met to talk about the
certification of braile teachers as well as about making all
teachers of the blind know braille and be certified. We are still
some time away from a program, but the first steps have been
taken. I have met many very very bright kids in the NFB who have
mae it through college, and graduate school in many cases, solely
by using tape and their memories. How much better could they have
done if they knew braille and could put all their energies into
learning, not getting by and coping. David Andrews
... Your Sound Alternative
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10844
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Stew, I found what you said about partials using braille quite
interesting. I can only say for me that I'm glad that I learned
braille as I am faster with it. However, who knows, if one
considers that the technology for glasses was today what it could
have been back then, maybe I could have learned print much faster
than I do right now.
By the way, remind me next time to tell you about a computer swap
that I'm going to be doing.
Bill.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!666!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11011
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Bill: that computer swap sounds interresting. Don't forget to tell
me about it. About Braille, you are right. Who knows what might have
been. Guess both of us were born too early, but I wouldn't be a
teenager today for all the tea in China or anyplace else for that
matter. What seems to be killing schools like ours is the cost of
textbooks today. Do you realize that a standard textbook in Braille
consisting of seven volumes costs $900? Who in the world pays that
much for one text? Interesting problem right?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (10/23/90)
Index Number: 11219
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Tarynn: glad you want to learn Braille, but I don't think it is
for everyone. My experience tells me that those who read large print
and try later on to learn braille are usually poor readers in both
modes. However, if the prognosis for continuing vision is poor, then,
by all means, braille should be offered. I wish you were right. Most
of the kids we are seeing at this school are multi-handicapped blind
kids, with mental deficiencies. Sure makes teaching challenging. Glad
to hear from you, and the very best of luck in your studies. Warmest
regards Stew
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (10/23/90)
Index Number: 11220
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Bill: your question is certainly a valid one. I think the best
option is to be able to purchase disks already prepared by some
outfit and then print them locally. That way, you wouldn't have to
print the entire book, but print as needed. We have a Theil printer
here which could do the job, but as yet, have been unable to obtain
formatted and prepared texts on disk. However I still think that
would be the most economic way to go.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgbarbour@boulder.colorado.edu (Jim Barbour) (10/24/90)
Index Number: 11234 In article <15092@bunker.UUCP> Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org writes: >Index Number: 11219 > >My experience tells me that those who read large print >and try later on to learn braille are usually poor readers in both >modes. > Just want to say that I grew up reading large print and learned Braille in college and am doing fine with both medium. I know at least 10 other people in the same boat. I'd like to hear from someone who REALLY tried to learn Braille and found it too difficult. Cheers, Jim Barbour
Lee.Kerr@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Lee Kerr) (10/26/90)
Index Number: 11297
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i HAV PARTIAL VISION, AND FOR SOME TIMe i STRUGGLED wITH LARGE PRINT.
tHANK g gGOD I BEGAN USING THE BRAILLE I HAD LEARNED EARLIER.
It s so much easier than getting hedaches and reding so solw that a
snail could ut run me Well, thqts
thats just one blind guy's thaughts on the subject. if you use sometxing
that toot work too good like yr eyes, it might be better to uses
somethiog that works fetter kike your fingers to read.
lee
}
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!7!Lee.Kerr
Internet: Lee.Kerr@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.orgDarrell.Shandrow@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Darrell Shandrow) (11/14/90)
Index Number: 11676
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I agree I know of a few situations where this sort of thinghas occured. I
feel one should learn braille not only if they can't read print at a
normal distance but also if their vision is unstable and subject to loss
even if they can presently read print fine. We also need to determine
when the person can no longer read print "normally".
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!7!Darrell.Shandrow
Internet: Darrell.Shandrow@f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org