Dan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12302
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i notice many of you nfbers are mysteriously quiet about our fellow blink
talker being expelled, what are your feelings?
dan, out of sight, out of my mind!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!999!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (12/29/90)
Index Number: 12597
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> i notice many of you nfbers are mysteriously quiet about our
DK> fellow blink talker being expelled, what are your feelings?
Dan, I discussed this matter extensively with a Board member. I
am not certainly not going to put myself in the position of
articulating the reasons, as my information is second hand, and it
is not my place to do so. Suffice it to say that there are two
sides to every story. Jamal has given you the story from his side,
but others have different perspectives. Among other things, he
complained about the treatment of his brother, concerning a
scholarship application. A scholarship committee member told me
that on his application, he indicated that he would not be able to
meet all the rules as stated, that is attend the entire
convention. Jamal also doesn't say that his brother got a $5000
scholarship from the American Brotherhood for the Blind, an amount
larger then most NFB scholarships.
Finally, it is my understanding that Jamal was told that he would
be reconsidered as a member after a period of time if his actions
improved. I do not think that NFB bashing in a non-NFB forum will
qualify as such. David Andrews
... Your Sound Alternative
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (12/29/90)
Index Number: 12600
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DA> I do not think that NFB bashing in a non-NFB
DA> forum will qualify as such. David Andrews
It is a truly amazing mind-set that regards any criticism whatsoever as
"bashing". Besides, Jamal does not exactly have access to "NFB forums"
any more, does he?
I hope you are able to maintain your loyalty to the organization when
the goose-steppers come for YOU, David.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Jeff.Salzberg
Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (01/04/91)
Index Number: 12638
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i would really like to see an nfb computer echo as well as a acb computer
echo. at least these organizations should at least have bbs's so they can
distribute info to their members. anyway, i know what you are saying about
both sides to a story but it is a shame that the blind of america are torn
apart in these personality conflicts and it's too bad many blind view the
sighted in terms of "us against them" while the rest of us blind are left
disliking either organization and their power playing. let's concentrate on
the real things that effect us. i guess that's why i like this echo so much
because there are a lot of independent thinking folks on here. sheesh, i
sounded like i was soap boxing for a minute... dan, out of sight, out of my
mind!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!999!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (01/04/91)
Index Number: 12651
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> i would really like to see an nfb computer echo as well as a
DK> acb computer echo. at least these organizations should at
DK> least have bbs's so they can distribute info to their members.
Dan,
I fully agree with your thoughts that both the NFB and the ACB
should have bulletin boards for distributing info to their members, but
the practicality of having echos for each just isn't there. As a matter
of fact, thanks to Nolan Crabbe of the ACB, the Braille Forum is
available from BlinkLink and many of the other BlinkTalk carrying
boards. Likewise, I've given the NFB the opportunity to distribute the
Braille Monitor via this most efficient medium, but the only real
response we've had is from Ted Young, the president of the Pennsylvania
NFB, who regularly uploads the state NFB newsletter here. I've heard a
few reasons why this is so, all of which didn't amount to a hill of
beans, but hey, let's face it...it is most definately more their loss
than ours, cause indeed, to be "the voice of the blind" in this country,
and to ignore BlinkTalk, is somewhat of a paradox!
DK> i guess that's why i like this echo so much because there are a
DK> lot of independent thinking folks on here.
Yeah Dan, and hopefully there are a lot of people here questioning their
beliefs as well! I am sure that there are many of us out here
intentionally keeping silent in this NFB thread, and just sitting back
and watching, and that there are many who don't belong to either
organization who are being swayed one way or the other, but what about
these staunch NFB advocates who show absolutely no signs of being
affected by this whole thing? Can they honestly respond to the charges
with "hogwash", and pick out only the weakest of the claims made against the
NFB and ignore the major issues like "democracy" and undue process?
You know, a long time ago, long before I ever used a talking
computer, let alone had a board or BlinkTalk's existance, a friend sent
me a tape of Dr. Ken's keynote speech at an NFB annual convention. In
it, he started with a joke about blind people, and honestly, although I
don't remember it now, I howled, as did the audience on the tape. Well,
he continued with more jokes, ranging from 1 to 10 on the BlinkTalk
humor scale, and they continued to get varying amounts of laughter from
the audience.
Seriously, I think I caught onto the fact that Ken was actually
trying to say that these jokes were a travesty to blind people before
most of the audience, so I listened more and more intently to the sounds
from them after each joke. It seemed so strange to me, as it was
obvious that the perception change of the audience from hilarity to
outrage was not due to anything but wanting to give the feedback the
speaker desired, not due to any real change in attitude on their part.
Again, this was long before I heard any of the Jim Baker and sheep
analogies I've heard here or anywhere else, but boy, it sure sounded
like that to me way back then!
Yep Dan, I figure that if you hear a blind joke in an audience
consisting overwhelmingly of blinks, like here in BlinkTalk or at an NFB
convention, it should be expected to be looked at in a perspective that
would allow one to laugh! I also believe that claims by the "boice of
the blind" that this destroys our image in the minds of our sighted
counterparts, or that we are doing an injustice to ourselves by telling
such jokes, are more "hogwash" than anything ever posted here in an anti
NFB vein! Not only does the NFB claim to be the voice of the blind in
this country, they apparantly claim to be the mind of the sighted in
this country, and with, I must add, not one shred of statistical
evidence!
Finally, and this really is my last word in this thread if I can
help it at all, if the NFB can't withstand the stones hurled at it in as
public a forum as this, they most definately have an infinate amount of
nerve referring to themselves as the voice of anything but a few!
Personally, I have never seen anything sadder than the posts here by
people who are obviously, intelligent, concerned participants, turn to
blind defense of the organization that apparantly makes up the core of
their existance!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org