Nadine.Thomas@p1.f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Nadine Thomas) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11914
CB> It's interesting that animal fats are where toxins accumulate in
CB> the food chain.
Where are the toxin's coming from that women have it in the milk?
If it is related to MS then it may be related to ALL auto-immune diseases.
Have you done any reading or research on this, Chris?
If so, would you please share some of it? THanks.
Nadine
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!7.1!Nadine.Thomas
Internet: Nadine.Thomas@p1.f7.n300.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/01/90)
Index Number: 12091
Your best bet for a study is Nicholas Ashford and Claudia Miller
(of M.I.T. and University of texas, "Chemical Sensitivities, a
report to the New jersey State Department of Health". The canadian
Laboratory centre for disease Control is alsso about to release a
paper based on a discussion last spring which identifies this as an
increasing and real problem. There are about 500 doctors kn the
U.S. who treat people with this problem, and with associated
auto-immue reactions, but the quality of service varies
tremendously from doctor to doctor, and some are not very good at
all. Check out Claudia Miller or nicholas ashford to get a copy of
the report...their addresses will be in any public library in a
directory including universities mentioned above.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!223!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.orgNadine.Thomas@p1.f7.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Nadine Thomas) (12/01/90)
Index Number: 12092
How frightening!
Aluminum was/has been a staple in our home for as long as I can remember.
It is light weight yet durable etc.
You mean that all my immune problems could have been caused from using aluminum
pots and pans?
Is there any reversal in this process?
How have we allowed this to go for so long unchecked? Are we, as a group, so
stupid? Hmmmm...... Guess I don't really need an answer for that one.
Is it too late? or can the damage be reversed as far as the ecology is
concerned?
What is your opinion?
If anyone else has anything to say I hope they also jump in on this
conversation.
Thanks for the reply - I'm anxious to hear more.
Nadine
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!7.1!Nadine.Thomas
Internet: Nadine.Thomas@p1.f7.n300.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12184
whoa! hold on! There are studies that show that aluminum has
adverse health effects, and that they can be worse if you're
sensitive to aluminum. But that isn't to say that your problems
are a result of aluminum. I don't know the effects of aluminum on
the immune system, in sensitive individuals or the population as a
whole. The effects of aluminum are somewhat known when it comes to
digestive problems, and alzheimers, but I do not know what effect
it could have on the immune system even in people who might have
idiosyncratic reactions. It is more likely, if there is a chemical
cause for your immune system disorders, that it is a result of
petrochemicals, or other sensitizing agents, such as formaldehyde,
or extensive use of antibiotics. CHECK WITH A DOCTOR. I AM NOT A
DOCTOR AND I AM NOT YOUR DOCTOR. Some of the members of our
self-help group have problems resulting from foods they eat,
especially the foods they eat most, or foods with known sensitizers
in them, such as pork, or shellfish, for instance. DO NOT JUMP TO
CONCLUSIONS OR JUMP ON A BANDWAGON. There are about 500 doctors in
the U.S. who are looking into all this, but they vary greatly in
their ability to express what's going on in a way that makes sense
to other doctors and scientists. It would seem that many people,
perhaps as many as 10 or 20 percent of the population, have immune
and OTHER forms of intolerance and sensitivity thatcan affect any
organ system of the body, including the prospect of autoimmune
degenerative disorders. DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. Even if you
do look into this, you will have to be very patient, as it can take
a long time to develop a good knowledge of what it is that you are
sensitive to, and how it affects you. A provincial commission in
Ontario found effects ranging from mild discomfort to total
disability (whateever that is) as a result of sensitivities
iknvolving pretty well every system of the body. Get the report
from Nicholas Ashford and Claudia Miller, and maybe I'll be able to
post a brief synopsis of the Canadian laboratory centre for Disease
Control report that's due out any day now. Beware of quick cures,
and do not take my information as indicating that any illness, even
one resultng from sensitivities, can be dealt with in a simplistic
way. It requires a lot of changes to your diet and personal
environment, which can be tricky. What makes it even more
difficult is that American doctors have been wandering around
saying the problem doesn't exist, and that it's all in people's
minds, even though it is widely recognized elsewhere in the world,
including by the world Health Organization.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!223!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.orgJean-pierre.Beland@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jean-pierre Beland) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12195
you were talking to someone else about Aluminium being bad for your
health. This story has existed for the last 30 years here. I
think that whatever metal is used as cooking implements or
utensils, it will leave minute amounts of the metal in your
system. so I would suggest that you do not worry about it, unless
you can find a scientific evidence of aluminium being worst than
other metals. by the way, I first heard of this story when I
joined a sales organization whose main product was stainless steals
pots and pans.
cheers, J.P.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!223!Jean-pierre.Beland
Internet: Jean-pierre.Beland@f223.n163.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12198
There is scientific evidence going back to 1892 that aluminum is bad for
your health. I suggest you get your medical advice from medical sources,
and not from pots and pans companies. you might check the effects of
alum in drinking water treatment, and how that has affected the health of
communities, and what efforts are being made to change water treatment
methods as a result. Or you might check up on research concerning
alzheimer's, and how the removal of aluminumm slows the development of
this disease.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgRob.Flor@f21.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Rob Flor) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12203
Hi Nadine!
Re Aluminum. I can give you some background. The information I
have is from studying Nutrition Counciling 7 years ago, so it isn't
cutting edge knowledge but should serve as an introduction.
Aluminum has been considered ok because it is very difficult to
absorb, doesn't have any known use in the body and doesn't tend to
replace similar minerals such as magnesium because Aluminum is so
reactive that it is always bound tightly to another atom, making it
unavailable.
As Alzheimer's began to be recognized and studied, one discovery was
Aluminum concentrations in affected nerve cells. It's logical to
presume aluminum is related to the nerve atrophy, and not a bad idea at
all to avoid excessive exposure. To balance this, it seemed (at that
time) that there was some defect which allowed aluminum concentration -
ie: it still seems that it isn't directly related to exposure but how
it's handles by some indivuals. Similar to salt, which only raised
blood pressure in individuals whose kidney's release a pressure
regulating hormone in response to salt.
That was the state of knowledge 8 yrs ago. As far as exposure goes,
aluminum is the active ingredient in one class of antacids such as
ROLAIDS, (as opposed to TUMS which uses Calcium); anti-perspirants that
use Aluminum to clog sweat-glands, and cookware. It's hard to find
aluminum pans without teflon these days, personally I'd rather avoid
the teflon and keep my fry-pan seasoned. Letting particularly acid or
especially - alkaline - foods sit can dissolve some aluminum from the
pan.
I can't bring you up to date on the relationship to immune response
as I haven't studied this in a while, but this model, even if I'm
quite mistaken, should help in knowing some of the questions to ask.
Cheers!
-Rob
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!21!Rob.Flor
Internet: Rob.Flor@f21.n272.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12211
Sorry to tell you, but aluminum's adverse health effects have been
written about in medical literature since 1892. There are dozens of
articles since, from Britain, Canada, and the United States. The matter
has been significantly confused by unethically slanted studies spnsored
by aluminum companies. You are right to say that aluminum affects some
persons more than others. Out self-help group would descirbe those
persons as susceptible, or sensitive, to adverse health effects of
aluminum. The acceptance of aluminum in our environment, especially as a
cooking vessel material, has been criticized by study after study for
decades, in fact, for a century. It's continued use is an excellent
example of politics and economics over the health of persons susceptible
to the product, to the extent that their illness has been denied for the
sake of profit and another factor, which seems to relate to people's
inability to acknowledge that they are harming others. Another example
of this is smoking, where smokers kill, but we attribute the killing to
the cigarette instead. You will note that it is only some persons who
develop cancer from smoking, or from being around smokers. The risk to
the population as a whole may be low, but for those individuals who
develop cancer, it is very high! A similar situation exists with respect
to many chemicals we use on a daily basis, which can contribute to many
illnesses, including cancer. The Medical profession in Britain went on
record in the forties as stating that caustic foods, such as coffee or
citric juices, should not be prepared or stored in aluminum. Propaganda
from aluminum and cookware companies has denied this, but I prefer to go
with the doctors opinion, and that of researchs back as far as aluminum
has been used.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12220
I guess I realized by other messages that you're wise enough to
understand the need for patience and a comprehensive approach. I guess
i've become very sensitive (no pun intended) to the fact that thrid
parties read messages, and I'd hope no-one would see me as trying to
advocate simplistic remedies. (I've never even been to
california!<grin>)
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12221
You might try to get in touch with Dr. William Rae, of Dallas. He found
that degenerative heart problems are sometimes linked to autoimmune
attack on heart tissue, and he's been helping people with sensitivities
ever since. Ontario's health insurance plan pays to send severe cases to
him for treatment.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgRob.Flor@f21.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Rob Flor) (12/07/90)
Index Number: 12403 > Sorry to tell you, but aluminum's adverse health effects have > been written about in medical literature since 1892. There are No need to apologize, Chris, for fleshing out my post. Your messages are jam-packed with information. > States. The matter has been significantly confused by > unethically slanted studies spnsored by aluminum companies. I try to use only ethically slanted sources <grin>. A good point though, Chris. In evaluating a claim, to ask "What is the source? Who funded it? Who is presenting the information? Is the evidence anecdotal or experimental? If it's experimental, am I being givin the data or just told someone's conclusion?" Often you just want to know enough to decide if something affects you such that you should take precautions, regardless of the provability of the claim. That's where I stand on aluminum and what I think Nadine is after. Though there hasn't been any causal link _established_ with aluminum and disease, there is enough of a question that I avoid unnessessary consumption in the form of antacids, antiperspirants, and alum containing food additives. If there was any history of Alzheimer's in my family I would be much more stringent. My preference is for aluminum cookware, so I use a quality (heavy) utensil in good condition (a rough and pitted surface increases surface area 10x or more). I must admit, being anorexic also reduces my concern about cookware. <grin> Cheers! -Rob -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!21!Rob.Flor Internet: Rob.Flor@f21.n272.z1.fidonet.org
Ron.Thibeault@f401.n250.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Thibeault) (12/13/90)
Index Number: 12457
I had read your message on cancer and alumium. Well And how coffee and
citric juice can cause cancer. Well there are a lot more than just
those two that cause cancer. Every thing that we eat and drink has so
many chemicals in them that are so harmful to use. A lot or should I
say most of them are cancer causing chemicals. And the experts say
Smoking cause cancer and then now they can't figure out why so many
people are geting cancer. If they would think about it they should
realize that all these chemicals they use are causing cancer not only
smoking.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!250!401!Ron.Thibeault
Internet: Ron.Thibeault@f401.n250.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/13/90)
Index Number: 12466
The " cure" for cancer is largely prevention. Sometimes the way doctors
act I wonder if having them in charge of the health care system is not a
big mistake. It's sort of like having clean-up companies in charge of
pollution abatement: the problem doesn't get dealt with until it is lying
around. The way our current health care system is organized there's more
money to be made out of sickness than wellness!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (12/14/90)
Index Number: 12484
Chris, I thought your message about doctors was quite to the point. I
have a real problem with docs who love to tell you not to eat this or
do that and yet can't spare a dime's worth of empathy with why people
dothe things they do.
There are those who say that ours is an adictive society, and while
that can probably be documented, I don't think it solves anything.
However, it would be nice if doctors could keep this in mind when they
advise.
Bill.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (12/14/90)
Index Number: 12492
Sometimes, when a person is addicted to a food, it is because they are
sensitive to it. And if they are sensirive to the food, it may be
causing real damage to one of their organ systems. However, doctors tend
to treat people as if they had less individuality than automobiles, and
make the same recommendations to people who have vastly different needs,
and very individual physiologies. Doctors are like most other
professionals in this regard, in that most members of any profession rely
on the concept that there are "answers" that apply to every incidence of
a particular "case", without understanding that the world is not made
that way.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgFred.Hatfield@p7.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Fred Hatfield) (01/08/91)
Index Number: 12672
In a message of < 7 Dec 90 01:53:52>, Chris Brown (1:163/113) writes:
CB>your one handed typing (without caps) reminds me of one of my favorite
CB>poets, ee cummings, who always writes lowercase. Hev you read him? his
CB>work is delightful!
...and don't forget don marquis' loveable archy and mehitabel....
Fred Hatfield K8VDU @ NN5F.LA.USA.NA ...from the digital cottage...
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.7!Fred.Hatfield
Internet: Fred.Hatfield@p7.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgChris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Brown) (01/08/91)
Index Number: 12684
Sometimes, when a person is addicted to a food, it is because they are
sensitive to it. And if they are sensirive to the food, it may be
causing real damage to one of their organ systems. However, doctors tend
to treat people as if they had less individuality than automobiles, and
make the same recommendations to people who have vastly different needs,
and very individual physiologies. Doctors are like most other
professionals in this regard, in that most members of any profession rely
on the concept that there are "answers" that apply to every incidence of
a particular "case", without understanding that the world is not made
that way.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!113!Chris.Brown
Internet: Chris.Brown@f113.n163.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (01/08/91)
Index Number: 12695
Chris, I'm glad that you7 have an understanding of the medical
proffesion. I don't just mean to put the proffession down, but as we
both know there is room for vast improovement.
One of the biggest peeves that I have is with keeping people on
machines long after they would have died naturally. I guess time will
tell in the long run, but somehow I feel that God would understand.
However, since much of science doesn't accept a higher power, I guess
that's that.
Bill./
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.orgDonna.Siren@p19.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Donna Siren) (01/08/91)
Index Number: 12707
BK> One of the biggest peeves that I have is with keeping people on
BK> machines long after they would have died naturally.
I hope I'm never faced with that situation, but even if I were I
could never pull the plug.
Donna
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.19!Donna.Siren
Internet: Donna.Siren@p19.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgFrank.Whitney@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Frank Whitney) (01/09/91)
Index Number: 12755 > BK> One of the biggest peeves that I have is with keeping people on > BK> machines long after they would have died naturally. > >DS> I hope I'm never faced with that situation, but even if I were I could >DS> pull the plug. >DS> Donna > >I could not, either, Donna. >Cheers, I missed the origional post to this but I agree that it's not right to keep someone alive on a machine long after they'd have died naturally. I'm physically incapable of pulling the plug personally I'd prever lethal injection during sleep. I wish my father would have had that choice rather then a 9 mm through the chest. Frank. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1000!Frank.Whitney Internet: Frank.Whitney@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org
Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (01/10/91)
Index Number: 12784
Donna, I can certainly understand your lack of courage when it comes to
"pulling the plug," as you say. I certainly am far from knowing what
is right in this situation, but from some of the research I've done, I
know that some people really suffer when (in my opinion) it's not
really necessary.
Oh by the way, I like the fact that you write your name in the middle
of the line. I've just started doing this and like the way it looks.
Bill.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org