Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13218 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Hi Rob, RC> When anyone is sick and has been forced to call EMS, there's a RC> loss of control. The patient does not entirely control their RC> destiny. I suspect one of the reasons we get as many people RC> refusing treatment (who actually NEED treatment) as we do is RC> because it's the last piece of control they feel they have. Add RC> to this being hearing impaired and being treated by some lunkhead RC> hearing person who never took the time to learn to communicate RC> with you and you are not going to be a happy camper. You're caring attitude and readiness to EXPLAIN a proceedure that might be about to take place to a patient made me realize where those chapters SHOULD be there... RC> Whenever I've signed "My name's Rob, slow down, my sign language RC> is not good" every patiet I've had (10-12, lost count) has RC> brightened up immensely. Maybe it's a touchstone of some kind. This is really so neat how you do this, I'm sure this DOES make a difference. RC> I teach the "special populations" module for the paramedic RC> students at the Center for Emergency Medicine. I just wish that you could be video taped (your techniques for handling all this) so that even more than those students you get there could receive the benefit of the very kind and caring way in which you do this...it's really a gift how you've such a sensitivity and knack for this (not to mention a sense of humor--which really DOES help!) and if others could watch perhaps they could pick up on it... RC> to come up with a list of phrases that would be useful. Thanks! That would be very helpful. RC> Mind if I RC> put a copy on the computers at the Center for Emergency Medicine? Not at all! Would be happy to see you do that. RC> Anyway, thanks for listening. I think it's something important. Thank YOU for sharing all this with me! RC> Those things are like gold around here. And the word "bull*&^%" RC> in sign language has become very popular for use around hearing RC> patients who aren't sick. That one's my fault.... :-} Guess that's one I might NOT find in my sign language books ;-) Take care and thanks! --Fran -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
Rob.Carr@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Rob Carr) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13200 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Fran, I'm glad my original message has added some points to the discussion. I'd like to go into serious mode (or at least as serious as I get) and talk about one of the most important reasons for paramedics to be able to at least do some signs when dealing with a hearing impaired patient. When anyone is sick and has been forced to call EMS, there's a loss of control. The patient does not entirely control their destiny. I suspect one of the reasons we get as many people refusing treatment (who actually NEED treatment) as we do is because it's the last piece of control they feel they have. Add to this being hearing impaired and being treated by some lunkhead hearing person who never took the time to learn to communicate with you and you are not going to be a happy camper. Whenever I've signed "My name's Rob, slow down, my sign language is not good" every patiet I've had (10-12, lost count) has brightened up immensely. Maybe it's a touchstone of some kind. Nancy would probably call it a "transitional object." But the point is, the patients are relieved to find out they are in the hands ofsomeone who knows a little about their world. I'll take that over 2 amps of lidocaine any day. The patients visibly relax at this point. I teach the "special populations" module for the paramedic students at the Center for Emergency Medicine. I explain some simple methods of communicating with the hearing impaired. I tell them to try sign language if they know it (this lecture is 1 hour long and I also cover four or five other special groups). I go over what not to do for lipreading (actually the hardest thing for students!)I point out that writing is an effective means of communication if the patient can read and write. Then I have a non-signing student come up to the front of the class, and ask them what they would do if a patient was deaf and did not read or write. They almost always come up with pantomime as a method of communications. Then I ask the "display" student how to ask if the patient was the driver of the car. How do you ask where the patient hurts? Does the patient take any medicines? Tell the patient you're going to take a pulse. A blood pressure. Tell the patient you want to start an IV. Most of the time, the student will use the proper sign language words without knowing it, and they're always intelligible. Heck, I can't even keep the difference between "IV" and "cocaine" and "Coca Cola" straight, but then the patients get a good laughout of it and they know what that harpoon in my hand is for. No, I haven't gotten your program yet. Still have to do that. I didn't get it before because I'm on a laptop with a screen that's nice for typing, but that's it. Now that my dad got his new computer and gave me the old desktop, I'll try it. I'll also try to come up with a list of phrases that would be useful. Hey, computer education is the wave of the future in EMS. Mind if I put a copy on the computers at the Center for Emergency Medicine? I'll only be able to afford to register my own copy. Anyway, thanks for listening. I think it's something important. BTW: about 6 years ago, Pgh EMS had someone come teach the alphabet and a few signs to the medics. You know, they all still have the little "alphabet and a few signs" card they were given? Those things are like gold around here. And the word "bull*&^%" in sign language has become very popular for use around hearing patients who aren't sick. That one's my fault.... :-} ... Subscribe to The Journal of Disasters in Emergency Medicine: $8.00/yr -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Rob.Carr Internet: Rob.Carr@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13225
Jay.Croft@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13227
Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13225 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] RC>> Those things are like gold around here. And the word "bull*&^%" RC>> in sign language has become very popular for use around hearing RC>> patients who aren't sick. That one's my fault.... :-} FO> Guess that's one I might NOT find in my sign language books ;-) It must be a useful sign in medical circles tho, Fran. I learned that particular sign from a nurse, who happened to be commenting on what the doctor was saying at the moment. If you do construct the chapter on medical signs, maybe you should consider it :-) ... I never listen! -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Jay.Croft@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13227 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Good for you in using sign language. But does your hospital call in a *professional* sign language interpreter as soon as possible? -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!147.0!Jay.Croft Internet: Jay.Croft@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13240 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] RC> Those things are like gold around here. And the word RC> "bull*&^%" in sign language has become very popular for use RC> around hearing patients who aren't sick. That one's my RC> patients who aren't sick. That one's my fault.... RC> :-} FO> Guess that's one I might NOT find in my sign language books FO> ;-) If I may pop in on this thread - I have to admit that the above term was my first sign to learn! (grin) It really does come in handy at times, among a few others!!! -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (01/26/91)
Index Number: 13246 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] FO> (Gotta find somebody to teach me it --and the others-- somehow FO> my teacher neglected to include them :-) ) Let's see if I can describe it verbally, Fran. 1. Place right forearm atop left forearm, parallel in front of body, palms down. 2. Make "Y" hand with right hand. 3. Rapidly open and close left hand. I warned you it was graphic! Alternatively, one can just fingerspell "BS", but that's not nearly as much fun. :-} Jack. ... Live, from Beaver County, it's . . . . -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (02/05/91)
Index Number: 13491 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > Let's see, shall I call the chapter "expletives", or "Words > of Displeasure? :-) I wonder how euphemistic I can get > without what I'm calling the chapter BEING that word! <grin> > hahaha! Guess you could try for "Expletives and Depletives"!!! (HA HA) To be honest, I doubt I would have learned these signs if it hadn't been for my brother. We were talking about this not too long ago and recalling how much fun we had in public places using them. Of course, others often looked at us strangely. (grin) I am often asked by others to watch someone to see what they are saying across the room - it does get very interesting and I guess you could say we tend to be toooooo nosy! (smirk) -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) (02/05/91)
Index Number: 13495 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Hi, It is nothing more than my insignificant personal opinion, but I think suggestions or implications that "No sign is better than a little sign" is a little bit like saying that "No speech is better than a little speech", "No sight is better than a little sight" or "No communication is better than a little communication." To me, it smacks "just that little bit" of Elitism. In other words, if you can't be as proficient and fast in the language as I, then don't you use it! Fran, it is very appaarent that many many people are appreciative of your contributions and endeavor to support communication and make ASL more readily available to all those with an interest. One hearing impaired person will tell you, "No, don't do it", the other will tell you, "Yes, do it." My unsolicited advice would be to tell you to do what is in "your" heart! If anyone is offended because you attempt to further bridge the communications gap between the hearing impaired and hearing, then certainly, it is a problem of their own making, not yours! Keepin' the faith! (Back with a bang!) . Vixen ---"Next stop, Armeggedon?" -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org
Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (02/05/91)
Index Number: 13499
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
WELCOME BACK!!! Karen, things haven't been the same here without you.
^^^^^^^^^^
|_ (shouting intentional)
Your post to Fran on this thread makes a great deal of sense. But
not to worry, I feel confident the "Elitist" attitude you referred
to is limited to a very few Deaf cultists.
V> It is nothing more than my insignificant personal opinion
Such humility! Is this really you, Vix? :-)
V> My unsolicited advice would be to tell you to do what is in
V> "your" heart! If anyone is offended because you attempt to
V< further bridge the communications gap between the hearing
V> impaired and hearing, then certainly, it is a problem of
V> their own making, not yours!
Amen!
V> (Back with a bang!)
And welcome indeed!
... Jack.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Fran.O'gorman@f41.n267.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (02/09/91)
Index Number: 13642 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] That reminder of how you and your brother used ASL to communicate when in a tight spot, kind of suggests alternate uses of sign...used to use it also to 'talk' to Mary (remeind her to behave) in church --but could do so quietly.... Also the watching others sign has been something that has fascinated other when they've seen Mary and myself...but it has drawn them in --in a positive manner... -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!267!41!Fran.O'gorman Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f41.n267.z1.fidonet.org
Lana.Berrington@f424.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Lana Berrington) (02/09/91)
Index Number: 13652 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] FO>> FO>> (Gotta find somebody to teach me it --and the others-- FO>> somehow my FO>> teacher neglected to include them :-) ) If I recall from last year, my sign language teacher included a few of those words (a very few... of the milder ones.. ) only at the request of several of us less-pure ;-) students. <grin>. However I first learned almost ALL of my "Words of Displeasure" in my grade 11 Math class. After the lesson, when we were all working on problems etc.. and the interpreter left, we'd all get a crash course on how to tell off the teacher without getting suspended. <grin> Later.. Lana # Origin: Farpoint Station VHST/RA * (403)569-0000 Calgary AB (201:5500/55.0) To respond netmail, use FSC-0038 DOMAIN lines or as 1st line of msg use: @DOMAIN METRONET 201:5500/55 <your address: domain z:n/n> === FNPGate 2.50 Release -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!424!Lana.Berrington Internet: Lana.Berrington@f424.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (02/21/91)
Index Number: 13683 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] FO>>> (Gotta find somebody to teach me it --and the others-- FO>>> somehow my FO>>> teacher neglected to include them :-) ) LB> However I first learned almost ALL of my "Words of Displeasure" LB> in my grade 11 Math class. After the lesson, when we were all LB> working on problems etc.. and the interpreter left, we'd all get LB> a crash course on how to tell off the teacher without getting LB> suspended. <grin> I think we could call this thread multiple uses of sign <grin> I have another somewhat surprising use that came up last year I might share here. I live in Orange County NY which is where West Point is (the officer's training college for the US Army). Every spring they host Special Olympics and because my Mary is multiply handicapped she participates. Well last spring, a Cadet happened to notice us signing and offered to be our sponsor (they provide cadets to assist us). Turns out he was teaching himself sign and was using it in maneuvers when having to lead in infantry simulations, and had taught his squadron it as well. Communicating silently gave them an edge over the 'enemy'. LB> # Origin: Farpoint Station VHST/RA * (403)569-0000 Calgary AB LB> (201:5500/55.0) To respond netmail, use FSC-0038 DOMAIN lines or LB> as 1st line of msg use: @DOMAIN METRONET 201:5500/55 <your LB> address: domain z:n/n> === FNPGate 2.50 Release LB> * Origin: FreeNet Project Gateway -- Denver (FIDONET 1:104/424) I'm including this here in case it's needed for you to receive this reply. I see you're from Calgary. Does Silenttalk and Fido network that far away -or is a gateway needed? Interesting... and thanks for sharing that anecdote. My Mary's speech therapist had a teenage class of signers in her previous job, and they had a student from England transfer into the class. Well in England they have a two-handed alphabet and everything is quite different. In no time at all, the kids were teaching him ASL and he was acquiring skill in it at record-breaking speed! I think kids make the best teachers! :-) --Fran -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
Lana.Berrington@f424.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Lana Berrington) (02/21/91)
Index Number: 13693 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] FO>> cadets to assist us). Turns out he was teaching himself FO>> sign and FO>> was using it in maneuvers when having to lead in infantry FO>> simulations, and had taught his squadron it as well. FO>> Communicating silently gave them an edge over the 'enemy'. Now that's neat! I have a friend who is at about the same level of signing ability as myself and we've found our (limited) skills handy for (A) Really annoying the other people at our table when we're at dinner at the Childrens camp we both work at and (B) a WONDERFUL way to communicate to each other when we're in a bar with LOUD music. ;-) I've found sign language very helpful for me in the various different jobs I hold. First, every summer I work for a YMCA children's camp .. and starting last summer we hosted a DEAF CAMP which took place simontaneously with our regular camp programs. As the Arts&Crafts/Environmental resource person I thanked every diety around that I could sign a little... especially when I had a session with no interpreter. I think I got my points across very successfully! :-) My only huge hurdle was when I had an Environmental session with a group between 6-8 yrs old. My finger spelling couldn 't help me with kids who couldnt spell. 1 Child was a great help! He was 8, could spell a little, and could speach read enought to tell me what a correct sign was for a given situation. Unfortunatly 2 out of the group of 6 were non-signers so I'd have to explain to them each individually ... <ACK> with a few mimes and pictures in the dirt I made my way through that session. Overall a VERY fun Camp, and an excellent response from both Campers and Interpreters/Teachers! I've also just recently started working with children with a variety of disabilities. Everything from Downs Syndromn and Developmentally delayed to C.P. or even Attention Deficite. I was working with a child one day with Downs Syndrome, his mother didn't tell me anything except that he couldn't talk... she mentioned that he would communicate non-verbally and then left. I figured the child would lead me around to things he wanted to do and indicated pleasure and displeasure by facial expressions etc. Much to my suprise and pleasure the little boy knew a whole bunch of signs. We got on great! I almost always knew what he wanted and vice versa. Sign Language is great.. Good thing I'm taking more classes! FO>> this reply. I see you're from Calgary. Does Silenttalk FO>> and Fido FO>> network that far away -or is a gateway needed? Sure.. Fido is all over the world. I believe my Fido address is 1:134/55. but thanks for the concern.! later: Lana # Origin: Farpoint Station VHST/RA * (403)569-0000 Calgary AB (201:5500/55.0) To respond netmail, use FSC-0038 DOMAIN lines or as 1st line of msg use: @DOMAIN METRONET 201:5500/55 <your address: domain z:n/n> === FNPGate 2.50 Release -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!424!Lana.Berrington Internet: Lana.Berrington@f424.n104.z1.fidonet.org