Al.Hoffman@f114.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (06/07/90)
Index Number: 8709
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Greg:
Concerning AEB. The truely amazing fact is that the AEB (now
Lions World Services for the Blind) staff still treats their
clients like morons, or inmates. If anyone out there is a Lion,
consider where your money is going.
Another interesting place Lions money went this yer was the following.
The Blind Bowlers of Northern Virginia, of who's organization I am
a member, or rather, was a member, received a large donation of
funds to pay for travel to Denver for the national tournament.
Now, this sounds great, but the people who went on the trip were
all well enough off that they could afford the trip anyway. I can
afford it and they all make more than I! So next the Lions ask for
money, consider where they cash will be going, AEB, or party trips
for the people who can afford them???
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!114!Al.Hoffman
Internet: Al.Hoffman@f114.n109.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (06/07/90)
Index Number: 8713
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Greg, as an nfber I happen to think the organization is on target much
of the time. My best advice is to "take your own counsel" on some
things, and just keep going forward. Itl all work out just fine.
Bill K.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/11/90)
Index Number: 9077
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TW> yes but you see my experience was with the national leadership
TW> so if you can't get corperation from the leaders you don't
TW> stand a snow balls chance in hell to get local help.
TW> keep in touch
TW> the independent one
Tandy,
You are right on target with that comment. If they believe that your
problem has no possibility of be solvved you will not get the help. In
the last ten years I have seen a number of blind who needed help refused
that help beacause it would be a good public relations move for the
organization. Tom G
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgAl.Hoffman@f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9155
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
To all of us blind politicians out here.
Okay, I know most of us have opinions on NFB/ACB/AFB etc. How's
that on the voice output? ha ha ha, but can we not get a big
organizational battle started, its the most useless battle I can
think of, and for some strange reason its something that really
will get people mad at times. I am not one of them, I take the
Vulcan approach towards organizations, I reserve feelings, since
they are not people, I don't save my emotionalism for either of the
organizations.
But, I do hope all those attending conventions this week/next will
have fun, learn and grow to their hearts desire, and make good
progress toward solving present and future problems.
There, wasn't that a bunch of hot air!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143!Al.Hoffman
Internet: Al.Hoffman@f143.n109.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9160
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
AH> To all of us blind politicians out here.
AH> Okay, I know most of us have opinions on NFB/ACB/AFB etc.
AH> How's that on the voice output? ha ha ha, but can we not get
AH> a big organizational battle started, its the most useless
AH> battle I can think of, and for some strange reason its
AH> something that really will get people mad at times. I am not
AH> one of them, I take the Vulcan approach towards organizations,
AH> I reserve feelings, since they are not people, I don't save my
AH> emotionalism for either of the organizations. But, I do hope
AH> all those attending conventions this week/next will have fun,
AH> learn and grow to their hearts desire, and make good progress
AH> toward solving present and future problems. There, wasn't that
AH> a bunch of hot air!
Al.
I I think you have a good point and if people go to the conventions
they will learn and even possibly grow. I guess the point is that I
feel bad about people being consumed by the organization. I say this
from ten years of experience most of which was very good and some not
so good. I would rather see blind people be INDEPENDENT and really
begin to think for themselves in every aspect of their lives. tom G
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgTed.Young@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Ted Young) (11/02/90)
Index Number: 11454
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
In a message Willie stated:
" What really interests me about your message, however, is the "the
Federation doesn't like them" statement. For some reason, I notice that
a few of you keep leaving comments like that, and it sort of sounds like
putting the cart before the horse to me! I mean, it appears like you
are basing your own opinion upon what the NFB says it should be rather
than vice-versa."
OK, Willie, I have tried to stay out of this one because it is
clear that I am outnumbered here and I believe that those who have
an irrational dislike of the NFB will not be swayed anyway.
However, as an avid Federationist I need to say somethings.
1. I have seen a lot of comments which indicate that the NFB
philosophy is great but either the leadership or the people in
general are bad. That statement doesn't make any sense to me, the
leadership, is the leadership because either it adheres to the
philosophy of the people or because it can persuade the people to
its point of view. Yes, the NFB has elections. Further,
those who acknowledge that the NFB has brought about positive
change for blind people and, even most people who say they don't
like us will acknowledge this, need to remember that that positive
change didn't occur magically. It occurred from hours of hard work
by dedicated people. It occurred by tactics that may seem militant
to some but which are necessary if one is to evoke real change. I
know our leaders personally and can assure you that Saturdays and
Sundays when many people are sitting around scratching whatever,
picking their noses, etc., our leadership is giving up its time to
improve conditions. Let me assure you that I have given up many a
good Penn State football game for the cause, many a not-so-good
Eagles game, and more than a few hours I would like to be spending
on hobbies which are too numerous to mention.
2. Sihnce the philosophy of the organization is formed at
conventions which are, regardless of popular opinion, democratic,
and since many matters are discussed in full, it is logical that
when that vote is taken it becomes an NFB position. Further, since
we are a volunteer organization and receive no pay for the hours of
work we do, it is logical that our motivation needs to be a firm
belief in the philosophy, and the reward of seeing conditions
improve as that philosophy is realized. It is also logical that
some people will disagree with that philosophy and, as philosophy
is what should keep one in any organization, those people will
probably leave. No, not everybody in the NFB believes in all
policies to the same degree, but probably most of us believe in
most of the policies or we wouldn't be there. I have never
understood how people can continue to belong to a Church when they
disagree with many of its major tenets. By the way, I believe that
all blind people, whether they belong to us or not and whether they
realize it or not, have benefited from our efforts.
3. One other comment that I have heard a lot is that we are
radical. I disagree. Politically I am a conservative, but I find
no conflict with that position and standing on a picket line if
necessary to prevent a blind person from being discriminated
against on a job, get a restaurant to comply with dog guide laws,
etc. Radical would be to demand more than equal opportunity and
treatment, and it is quite consistent with conservatism to believe
that all people should have equal treatment and opportunity. Let
me stop here to accommodate the need to stay within message
lenths. TedIt is also logical that some people will disagree with
that philosophy and, as philosophy is what should keep one in any
organization, those people will probably leave. No, not everybody
in the NFB believes in all policies to the same degree, but
probably most of us believe in most of the policies or we wouldn't
be there. I have never understood how people can continue to
belong to a Church when they disagree with many of its major
tenets. By the way, I believe that all blind people, whether they
belong to us or not and whether they realize it or not, have
benefited from our efforts. 3. One other comment that I have
heard a lot is that we are radical. I disagree. Politically I am
a conservative, but I find no conflict with that position and
standing on a picket line if necessary to prevent a blind person
from being discriminated against on a job, get a restaurant to
comply with dog guide laws, etc. Radical would be to demand more
than equal opportunity and treatment, and it is quite consistent
with conservatism to believe that all people should have equal
treatment and opportunity.
Let me stop here to accommodate the need to stay within message lenths.
Ted
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Ted.Young
Internet: Ted.Young@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (11/06/90)
Index Number: 11584
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TY> In a message Willie stated:
TY> " What really interests me about your message, however, is
TY> the "the Federation doesn't like them" statement. For some
TY> reason, I notice that
TY> a few of you keep leaving comments like that, and it sort of
TY> sounds like
TY> putting the cart before the horse to me! I mean, it appears
TY> like you are basing your own opinion upon what the NFB says it
TY> should be rather than vice-versa."
TY> OK, Willie, I have tried to stay out of this one because it is
TY> clear that I am
TY> outnumbered here and I believe that those who have an irrational
TY> dislike of the
TY> NFB will not be swayed anyway. However, as an avid
TY> Federationist I need to say
TY> somethings.
TY> 1. I have seen a lot of comments which indicate that the NFB
TY> philosophy is
TY> great but either the leadership or the people in general are
TY> bad. That statement doesn't make any sense to me, the
TY> leadership, is the leadership
TY> because either it adheres to the philosophy of the people or
TY> because it can
TY> persuade the people to its point of view. Yes, the NFB has
TY> elections. Further,
TY> those who acknowledge that the NFB has brought about
TY> positive change for blind people and, even most people who say
TY> they don't like
TY> us will acknowledge this, need to remember that that positive
TY> change didn't
TY> occur magically. It occurred from hours of hard work by
TY> dedicated people. It
TY> occurred by tactics that may seem militant to some but which are
TY> necessary if
TY> one is to evoke real change. I know our leaders personally and
TY> can assure you
TY> that Saturdays and Sundays when many people are sitting around
TY> scratching
TY> whatever, picking their noses, etc., our leadership is giving
TY> up its time to
TY> improve conditions. Let me assure you that I have given up
TY> many a good Penn
TY> State football game for the cause, many a not-so-good Eagles
TY> game, and more than
TY> a few hours I would like to be spending on hobbies which are too
TY> numerous to
TY> mention.
TY> 2. Sihnce the philosophy of the organization is formed at
TY> conventions which
TY> are, regardless of popular opinion, democratic, and since many
TY> matters are
TY> discussed in full, it is logical that when that vote is taken it
TY> becomes an NFB
TY> position. Further, since we are a volunteer organization and
TY> receive no pay for
TY> the hours of work we do, it is logical that our motivation
TY> needs to be a firm
TY> belief in the philosophy, and the reward of seeing conditions
TY> improve as that
TY> philosophy is realized. It is also logical that some people
TY> will
Ted, As a Federationist, I would like to thank you for your
articulate and thoughtful messages. I have felt that it gets
pretty lonely out here sometimes trying to explain NFb philosophy.
I am continuouly surprised at the amount and level of anti NFB
sentiment and venom on this Echo. I find it difficult to believe
that we are such bad evil people with such crazy ideas. There are
enough of us, and enough of our ideas have and are entering the
mainstream that we can't be carzy. I also don't agree with all
stands, but I agree with more then I disagree with and I know that
the NFB does all of us as blind people, good. I now work for the
New Mexico Commission for the Blind and we are using a number of
NFb philosophies and ideas to provide training to people. While we
are not perfect, I see people getting far better training then I
saw in any of the states I have lived in which include Kansas,
Illinois, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Virginia
and North Carolina. I have talked at length to a number of people
who strongly are gainst us. Often you can trace their hartred to
one run-in with an individual in the NFB, or maybe they had a cause
that they wanted supported. We unfortuantely can't take on
everyone's cases, some because of limited resources, and some
because they are not winable. Many of us have disagreements on
this board from time to time, but we don't go off and hate each
other usually and discount everything the other person says.
Finally, I think that at times, some of our tactics make people
uncomfortable. That is unfortunate, but without some discomfort
and confrontation, there will be no change. Black people did not
get anywhere by always going to the back of the bus.
David Andrews
... Your Sound Alternative
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (11/14/90)
Index Number: 11691
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi David,
I am a federationist and I am tired of blind people putting down
the organization and a lot of the don't even know the philosophy or
what we are trying to do. I know that the organization has helped
a lot of people and sometimes being militant is required to get
people to listen. Well, take care and catch youlater.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (11/14/90)
Index Number: 11696
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DA> I am continuouly surprised at the amount and level
DA> of anti NFB sentiment and venom on this Echo.
I think that, for the most part, the sentiment is not anti-NFB, per se,
but rather a reaction against those few who blindly follow the party
line without thinking for themselves.
As the song from Gilbert and Sullivan's "HMS Pinafore" goes:
I always voted at my party's call
and I never thought of thinking for myself at all...
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!729!Jeff.Salzberg
Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11774
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GM> Hi David,
GM> I am a federationist and I am tired of blind people
GM> putting down the organization and a lot of the don't even know
GM> the philosophy or what we are trying to do. I know that the
GM> organization has helped a lot of people and sometimes being
GM> militant is required to get people to listen. Well, take care
GM> and catch youlater. --- TBBS v2.1/NM
Greg, I think that your wrong when you say that most blind people who
put NFB down do not know the organization. I believe that most blind
people know nfb and acb and I am meeting more and more blind people who
are turned off by both organizations, not because of the philosophy but
because of the leadership and political nature of both. tom G
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11795
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Warren,
"...stay away from blind issues." Interesting way of puting it. I
guess you'll here from radical types (in or out of any group), that "you
can't stay from blind issues." On the other hand I suspect that what they
want is to be accepted and valued by the community at large rather than be
cast into a blind ghetto.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11809
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
The National Federation of the Blind is an organization of the
blind speaking out for the blind. One of the problems that blind
people have had is that for years sighted people were dictating to
us and deciding for us what our needs are. It is good that blind
people are speaking for themselves because we know what our needs
are and what needs to be done more than most sighted people. Most
consumer organizations are political in nature but what we need to
focus on is what NFB has done forthe blind. Let us look at the
evidence. Do you like being treated as a second class citizen? Do
you like being told that you are not capable of sitting in an exit
row but a baby or an elderly lady is? Are you happy with the
attitudes of others toward you as a blind person? We can not judge
an organization based on the political ideas of a few people. I
think it is time for blind people to objectively look at what NFB
has done and then decide if it is a worth while organization. Let
us look at the results.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (11/20/90)
Index Number: 11860
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
You are so right Warren. As a past chapter president, State board
member, State P.R. officer, and one who took the NFB philosophy to
heart I have to say that it is truely the political nature of the
organization that turns me off. People aren't important and neither
are individuals except for the politicos who bager their way to
positions on the board and in as officers. When ?Doctor Journigan was
President he always made the people in the chapters, officers, and the
state officers feel that they were important. With Mark Mauer it is
Polotics that is the most important and who can beat out who. NFB is
not the organization it once was and that is a shame. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgWalter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren) (11/20/90)
Index Number: 11875
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GM> The National Federation of the Blind is an organization of the blind
GM> speaking out for the blind.
True, but it isn't the only one.
gm> One of the problems that blind people have had
GM> is that for years sighted people were dictating to us and deciding for us
GM> what our needs are. It is good that blind people are speaking for
GM> themselves because we know what our needs are and what needs to be done
GM> more than most sighted people. Most consumer organizations are political
GM> in nature
But not dictatorial.
gm> but what we need to focus on is what NFB has done forthe blind.
Ok, let's do.
GM> Let us look at the evidence. Do you like being treated as a second class
GM> citizen?
No, but that still happens.
gm> Do you like being told that you are not capable of sitting in an
GM> exit row but a baby or an elderly lady is?
That doesn't bother me, and we still can't sit in an exit row.
gm> Are you happy with the
GM> attitudes of others toward you as a blind person?
Most of the time.
gm> We can not judge an
GM> organization based on the political ideas of a few people. I think it is
GM> time for blind people to objectively look at what NFB has done and then
GM> decide if it is a worth while organization. Let us look at the results.
ok. We have, and what does it show?
Walter
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgAl.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11929
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Here is a good one that will get me in trouble.
1. The NFB is like cancer-cures. The cure might work but it
will kill you. 2. We all might just need the cure!
Okay, that said. The NFB has done quality work, and continues
to do so. However the reputation as the lunatic fringe of the blind
is upon them. And in many cases well deserved. Blind people are
just as good, bad, and ugly as the next guy, because we are the next
guy. But, why do we tolerate some of the jerks who walk around saying
how independent they are and fighting constantly for their rights
and being damned proud of it, when all they are really doing is making
themselves different from the rest of the society? Some NFB-types
would like the world to know they are damned gonna fight for their
rights, and dammit that will come first. Thats just strange in my
opinion, you should fight for your right when you need to, but there
is no need to keep beating people over the head with the idea--it
won't do you or them any good.
Sure the ranges of fanaticism must be enforced in all things,
but fanatics of any kind are generally just a big pain in the you
know where.
The wimps of the world will always be there as we all know--but
then we don't have to let them off the hook either. If people give
up on their rights they won't have any. A simple balance of the main
line should be kept more in both blind organizations, and also they
should learn not to take themselves so seriously, he--double toothpicks,
neither organization for the blind is big enough to cause that much
damage in a real sense, such as the National Rifle Association, or
Right to Life, or National Organization of Women.
Okay, I'm off my soap box. Thanks for a provoking msg.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143.0!Al.Hoffman
Internet: Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.orgHenry.Kasten@p0.f33.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11936
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Wow Al, you hit the nail right on the head in your message to
Walter, not bad for a Blind guy. You spoke of the NFB as the
lunatic fringe, heck fire Al, any group or organization that
advocates change is on the fringe of lunacy. You said, "why do we
tolerate some of the jerks who walk around saying how independent
they are and fighting constantly for their rights and being damned
proud of it, when all they are really doing is making themselves
different from the rest of the society?" Very well put, and
certainly thought provoking. I agree with you. I really wish
those jerks would just shut up and leave well enough alone. Look
at all the hassle and headaches jerks like Susan B. Anthony, Martin
Luther King Jr. and Morris Frank caused. If those jerks and jerks
like them had just relaxed and followed our line of reasoning you
stated so eloquently,"there is no need to keep beating people over
the head with the idea--it won't do you or them any good." Life
would be so grand, think of it , we could be sitting around getting
fat while the rest of the world takes care of us. We wouldn't have
to learn to read or use our minds to make hard decisions like which
computer to get since we wouldn't need them. What a utopian world
wi Blinks would live in. In fact we could change our name from
blinks to bumps. You are so correct when you say, A simple balance
of the main line should be kept more in both blind organizations,
and also they should learn not to take themselves so seriously,".
The NFB and ACB should be do nothing say nothing organizations,
their mission should be one of providing social affairs for
blinks. You are so intuitive when you say, "neither organization
for the blind is big enough to cause that much damage in a real
sense," Blinks make up such a small part of the population. It
would really be a major waste of time and effort to hassle people
about such silly things such as equal rights. We should be
thankful for what we have, and leave well enough alone. Besides,
with rights comes responsibility. And who wants that. Al, if you
weren't a blink, I would say you should go on a speaking tour, but,
then again, what can one person do? Henry
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!33.0!Henry.Kasten
Internet: Henry.Kasten@p0.f33.n130.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11940
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
whole heartedly agree!! you just need to look at a certain nfb
state officer espousing her independence and watch her constantly
holding her sighted friends arm! just because we're blind dosn't
mean we're blind! dan.. out of sight, out of my mind!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgTandy.Way@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11943
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
amen to all your comments grant. when I was in my fight with social
security neither n f b or a c b would help because if they couldn't
run the whole show they didn't want a part of it for their personal
gratification so if you have trouble you better watch out for
yourself and do have the illution that one or the other national
group who perports to help the blind is going to help you. rubbish
I fought, I won, and I conquered hands down.
tandy
... When you're really in doubt, press RESET.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Tandy.Way
Internet: Tandy.Way@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12138
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
you asked why I thought that Doctor Journigan was not in control of the
NFB? Since he stepped won as President there have been many
attitudinal changes at the national level. Mark Mauer seems to
represent all political and to heck with the individual concept.
Doctor Journigan onthe other hand was quite personable and so were the
people who worked with him. No doubt Doctor Journigan has some control
but not in the same way he used to. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12142
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
You are so right that if the NFB or ACB can't run the hole show
they don't like to take a case. That has not changed.
Congradulations on winning though. The more we win the better
off we are and the better off blind people in the future will
be. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12147
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GD> you asked why I thought that Doctor Journigan was not in
GD> control of the NFB? Since he stepped won as President there
GD> have been many attitudinal changes at the national level. Mark
GD> Mauer seems to represent all political and to heck with the
GD> individual concept. Doctor Journigan onthe other hand was quite
GD> personable and so were the people who worked with him. No
GD> doubt Doctor Journigan has some control but not in the same way
GD> he used to. Grant
Grant, let me asure you that Dr. Jernigan is in full control of the
organization. tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12240
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
If Doctor Journigan is in as much control as you say all I can respond
with is that there has certainly been a change in attitude in the
organizations over the past fifteen years I guess. I'm speaking as an
ex chapter president of eleven years, state P.R. chairperson for five,
State board member, and one who worked as hard as I possible could and
basically got shot down for it because, well I wasn't ratical enough I
guess. Grant
Tandy Way had amessage on here that I saw a couple of days ago that
said something to the effect that unless it is a case that will benefit
the organizations either ACB or NFB that neither organization is to the
blind individual's benefit. Regretibly I think he's right.
Tom, I had and still have a tremendous ammount of respect for Dr.
Journigan and aways will as heHe always made sense, uhleld the NFB
phlosophy, and was a real roll model model as at least he made the
appearance of really caring about the organization, but notjust the
officers and the board members on the national level, but also the
people who worked on the state and local levels and that is what has
changed so dromatically.
Grant
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgAl.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12262
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Tom:
You are a new name for me in this echo. Glad to have you here.
the more the merrier. Anyway, sometimes I get down on the old NFB'ers,
but then sometimes I see some stupid news person saying things like
just tonight, CBS news Bob Faw in California talking about is it right
to put premes through hell to save a life. Anyway his bad example
for the camera was a blind baby, who was saved, at the cost of his
sight and a huge mmedical bill--hell I was a preme, I went through
hell to see as long as I did, and that stupid fool on a national
show acted as if I am not worth it.
OK gang lets all getogather and have a group shout off. Then
we will feel better, and its too bad they didn't just say the hell
with me? Oh well, lifes not supposed to be fair anyway.
If life were fair what would we watch without the war, cop, and
soap-shows?
Have fun, and I am not really as militant on NFB as I sound
sometimes, I just ate people and organizations who take themselves
too seriously--if you want to hear the same sentiments put best, watch
the George Carlyn HBO comedy hour this month--its great.
Later!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143.0!Al.Hoffman
Internet: Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.orgLee.Mounger@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Lee Mounger) (01/23/91)
Index Number: 13126
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
After thinking about it and reading all the messages concerning the N
FB, I have a couple of thoughts to share. For one thing, I have noticed
the discussion between Nfb members and ex-members and non-members
becoming more heated over the past weeks. Whether we are pro-Nfb or
not, I think it might help everyone to remember that really reasonable
dialog and debate using a series of short messages over a period of days
or weeks is almost impossible. For example, I believe that if David
Andrews, Grant Downey, Jeff Salzberg and myself were to sit down at a
table for several hours, armed with our four disstinct viewpoints and
all being intelligent and reasonable people, after using thousands of
words over a short period of time, we would all leave with a better
understanding of each other's reasons for feeling the way we do.
However, the Nfb debate on this echo only seems to serve the purpose of
giving angry people the opportunity to vent their anger. Although this
is probably good therapy, it doesn't make for good debate. I suspect
that there are too many good people involved on both sides of the Nfb
controversy so I think I'll just stay out of that particular thread from
now on. It would be stupid of me to form oppinions of people I've never
met because of their beliefs on one given subject. I belive Jamal was
treated shabbily by the national leadership of the Nfb and, as of now, I
have no desire to join, but that's only my viewpoint and its certainly
subject to change, although probably not from anything I'll read on
blinktalk. Later.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Lee.Mounger
Internet: Lee.Mounger@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (01/23/91)
Index Number: 13159
Your points are very well taken and after a little thought I think you
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
are right. It is easy to really get fired up and really angry when you
have put your whole self, time, effort, and desire into making your
area of expertees in an organization work. Most certainly I blew off
some steem in my comments but I do think that if we all sat down around
a table, at a party, or wherever, all of those with varing opinions
would maybe not come away with totally changed perspectives but would
at least have a better understanding. I recall a time for many years
when I was a dyhard NFB member ready to defend with all wepons
available to me . Not only was I visually disabled, I was blind in my
thinking process following like a sheep and spouting off any time I had
a change the defense of the organized blind. I would never do that
again in any lorganization but I've got a few years under my belt and
hopefully some maturity along the way. However I still have a strong
desire to do my part to make things better for people with visual
disabilities and if there was a viable chapter here I would jolin the
ACB as it seems as though at present the ACB leadership has a much more
logical and well thought out approach to problem solving for the blind.
Grant
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgJamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui) (02/06/91)
Index Number: 13566
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi David! Congratulations on your new job as Director of the NFB's
newly established "National Braille and Technology Center"!
I missed the beginning of the threads in which you apparently stated
that there had been much misinformation about the NFB here. Ido not
know whether you referred in part to statements I have made. If so, I
wonder what you think I have misinformed people about. I am an honest
person by nature and certainly have not deliberately misinformed people
here or anywhere else about the NFB. If I have unintentionally made
erroneous statements, then I will be glad to be corrected.
David, you and I have been friends and colleagues for several years. I hope
that your new position at NFB headquarters in Baltimore does not
compromise too much the dedicated but reasonable and humane person I
know.
--Jamal--
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui
Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (03/26/91)
Index Number: 14154
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
JM> I missed the beginning of the threads in which you apparently
JM> stated that there had been much misinformation about the NFB
JM> here. Ido not know whether you referred in part to statements
JM> I have made. If so, I wonder what you think I have misinformed
JM> people about. I am an honest person by nature and certainly
JM> have not deliberately misinformed people here or anywhere else
JM> about the NFB.
Jamal, I was not refeering to your statements when I spoke about
misinformation. You presented the events concerning you from the perspective
you know. I might interpret them differently then you, but when I talked about
misinformation, I was speaking of other things, such as a current statement that
says that the NFB makes its scholarship winners go to the schools that the NFB
chooses. As a past scholarship winner you will know that this isn't true.
... Your Sound Alternative
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org