Al.Hoffman@f114.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (06/07/90)
Index Number: 8709 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Hi Greg: Concerning AEB. The truely amazing fact is that the AEB (now Lions World Services for the Blind) staff still treats their clients like morons, or inmates. If anyone out there is a Lion, consider where your money is going. Another interesting place Lions money went this yer was the following. The Blind Bowlers of Northern Virginia, of who's organization I am a member, or rather, was a member, received a large donation of funds to pay for travel to Denver for the national tournament. Now, this sounds great, but the people who went on the trip were all well enough off that they could afford the trip anyway. I can afford it and they all make more than I! So next the Lions ask for money, consider where they cash will be going, AEB, or party trips for the people who can afford them??? -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!114!Al.Hoffman Internet: Al.Hoffman@f114.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (06/07/90)
Index Number: 8713 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Greg, as an nfber I happen to think the organization is on target much of the time. My best advice is to "take your own counsel" on some things, and just keep going forward. Itl all work out just fine. Bill K. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810!Bill.Koppelmann Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/11/90)
Index Number: 9077 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] TW> yes but you see my experience was with the national leadership TW> so if you can't get corperation from the leaders you don't TW> stand a snow balls chance in hell to get local help. TW> keep in touch TW> the independent one Tandy, You are right on target with that comment. If they believe that your problem has no possibility of be solvved you will not get the help. In the last ten years I have seen a number of blind who needed help refused that help beacause it would be a good public relations move for the organization. Tom G -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org
Al.Hoffman@f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9155 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] To all of us blind politicians out here. Okay, I know most of us have opinions on NFB/ACB/AFB etc. How's that on the voice output? ha ha ha, but can we not get a big organizational battle started, its the most useless battle I can think of, and for some strange reason its something that really will get people mad at times. I am not one of them, I take the Vulcan approach towards organizations, I reserve feelings, since they are not people, I don't save my emotionalism for either of the organizations. But, I do hope all those attending conventions this week/next will have fun, learn and grow to their hearts desire, and make good progress toward solving present and future problems. There, wasn't that a bunch of hot air! -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143!Al.Hoffman Internet: Al.Hoffman@f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (07/18/90)
Index Number: 9160 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] AH> To all of us blind politicians out here. AH> Okay, I know most of us have opinions on NFB/ACB/AFB etc. AH> How's that on the voice output? ha ha ha, but can we not get AH> a big organizational battle started, its the most useless AH> battle I can think of, and for some strange reason its AH> something that really will get people mad at times. I am not AH> one of them, I take the Vulcan approach towards organizations, AH> I reserve feelings, since they are not people, I don't save my AH> emotionalism for either of the organizations. But, I do hope AH> all those attending conventions this week/next will have fun, AH> learn and grow to their hearts desire, and make good progress AH> toward solving present and future problems. There, wasn't that AH> a bunch of hot air! Al. I I think you have a good point and if people go to the conventions they will learn and even possibly grow. I guess the point is that I feel bad about people being consumed by the organization. I say this from ten years of experience most of which was very good and some not so good. I would rather see blind people be INDEPENDENT and really begin to think for themselves in every aspect of their lives. tom G -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org
Ted.Young@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Ted Young) (11/02/90)
Index Number: 11454 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] In a message Willie stated: " What really interests me about your message, however, is the "the Federation doesn't like them" statement. For some reason, I notice that a few of you keep leaving comments like that, and it sort of sounds like putting the cart before the horse to me! I mean, it appears like you are basing your own opinion upon what the NFB says it should be rather than vice-versa." OK, Willie, I have tried to stay out of this one because it is clear that I am outnumbered here and I believe that those who have an irrational dislike of the NFB will not be swayed anyway. However, as an avid Federationist I need to say somethings. 1. I have seen a lot of comments which indicate that the NFB philosophy is great but either the leadership or the people in general are bad. That statement doesn't make any sense to me, the leadership, is the leadership because either it adheres to the philosophy of the people or because it can persuade the people to its point of view. Yes, the NFB has elections. Further, those who acknowledge that the NFB has brought about positive change for blind people and, even most people who say they don't like us will acknowledge this, need to remember that that positive change didn't occur magically. It occurred from hours of hard work by dedicated people. It occurred by tactics that may seem militant to some but which are necessary if one is to evoke real change. I know our leaders personally and can assure you that Saturdays and Sundays when many people are sitting around scratching whatever, picking their noses, etc., our leadership is giving up its time to improve conditions. Let me assure you that I have given up many a good Penn State football game for the cause, many a not-so-good Eagles game, and more than a few hours I would like to be spending on hobbies which are too numerous to mention. 2. Sihnce the philosophy of the organization is formed at conventions which are, regardless of popular opinion, democratic, and since many matters are discussed in full, it is logical that when that vote is taken it becomes an NFB position. Further, since we are a volunteer organization and receive no pay for the hours of work we do, it is logical that our motivation needs to be a firm belief in the philosophy, and the reward of seeing conditions improve as that philosophy is realized. It is also logical that some people will disagree with that philosophy and, as philosophy is what should keep one in any organization, those people will probably leave. No, not everybody in the NFB believes in all policies to the same degree, but probably most of us believe in most of the policies or we wouldn't be there. I have never understood how people can continue to belong to a Church when they disagree with many of its major tenets. By the way, I believe that all blind people, whether they belong to us or not and whether they realize it or not, have benefited from our efforts. 3. One other comment that I have heard a lot is that we are radical. I disagree. Politically I am a conservative, but I find no conflict with that position and standing on a picket line if necessary to prevent a blind person from being discriminated against on a job, get a restaurant to comply with dog guide laws, etc. Radical would be to demand more than equal opportunity and treatment, and it is quite consistent with conservatism to believe that all people should have equal treatment and opportunity. Let me stop here to accommodate the need to stay within message lenths. TedIt is also logical that some people will disagree with that philosophy and, as philosophy is what should keep one in any organization, those people will probably leave. No, not everybody in the NFB believes in all policies to the same degree, but probably most of us believe in most of the policies or we wouldn't be there. I have never understood how people can continue to belong to a Church when they disagree with many of its major tenets. By the way, I believe that all blind people, whether they belong to us or not and whether they realize it or not, have benefited from our efforts. 3. One other comment that I have heard a lot is that we are radical. I disagree. Politically I am a conservative, but I find no conflict with that position and standing on a picket line if necessary to prevent a blind person from being discriminated against on a job, get a restaurant to comply with dog guide laws, etc. Radical would be to demand more than equal opportunity and treatment, and it is quite consistent with conservatism to believe that all people should have equal treatment and opportunity. Let me stop here to accommodate the need to stay within message lenths. Ted -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Ted.Young Internet: Ted.Young@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (11/06/90)
Index Number: 11584 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] TY> In a message Willie stated: TY> " What really interests me about your message, however, is TY> the "the Federation doesn't like them" statement. For some TY> reason, I notice that TY> a few of you keep leaving comments like that, and it sort of TY> sounds like TY> putting the cart before the horse to me! I mean, it appears TY> like you are basing your own opinion upon what the NFB says it TY> should be rather than vice-versa." TY> OK, Willie, I have tried to stay out of this one because it is TY> clear that I am TY> outnumbered here and I believe that those who have an irrational TY> dislike of the TY> NFB will not be swayed anyway. However, as an avid TY> Federationist I need to say TY> somethings. TY> 1. I have seen a lot of comments which indicate that the NFB TY> philosophy is TY> great but either the leadership or the people in general are TY> bad. That statement doesn't make any sense to me, the TY> leadership, is the leadership TY> because either it adheres to the philosophy of the people or TY> because it can TY> persuade the people to its point of view. Yes, the NFB has TY> elections. Further, TY> those who acknowledge that the NFB has brought about TY> positive change for blind people and, even most people who say TY> they don't like TY> us will acknowledge this, need to remember that that positive TY> change didn't TY> occur magically. It occurred from hours of hard work by TY> dedicated people. It TY> occurred by tactics that may seem militant to some but which are TY> necessary if TY> one is to evoke real change. I know our leaders personally and TY> can assure you TY> that Saturdays and Sundays when many people are sitting around TY> scratching TY> whatever, picking their noses, etc., our leadership is giving TY> up its time to TY> improve conditions. Let me assure you that I have given up TY> many a good Penn TY> State football game for the cause, many a not-so-good Eagles TY> game, and more than TY> a few hours I would like to be spending on hobbies which are too TY> numerous to TY> mention. TY> 2. Sihnce the philosophy of the organization is formed at TY> conventions which TY> are, regardless of popular opinion, democratic, and since many TY> matters are TY> discussed in full, it is logical that when that vote is taken it TY> becomes an NFB TY> position. Further, since we are a volunteer organization and TY> receive no pay for TY> the hours of work we do, it is logical that our motivation TY> needs to be a firm TY> belief in the philosophy, and the reward of seeing conditions TY> improve as that TY> philosophy is realized. It is also logical that some people TY> will Ted, As a Federationist, I would like to thank you for your articulate and thoughtful messages. I have felt that it gets pretty lonely out here sometimes trying to explain NFb philosophy. I am continuouly surprised at the amount and level of anti NFB sentiment and venom on this Echo. I find it difficult to believe that we are such bad evil people with such crazy ideas. There are enough of us, and enough of our ideas have and are entering the mainstream that we can't be carzy. I also don't agree with all stands, but I agree with more then I disagree with and I know that the NFB does all of us as blind people, good. I now work for the New Mexico Commission for the Blind and we are using a number of NFb philosophies and ideas to provide training to people. While we are not perfect, I see people getting far better training then I saw in any of the states I have lived in which include Kansas, Illinois, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Virginia and North Carolina. I have talked at length to a number of people who strongly are gainst us. Often you can trace their hartred to one run-in with an individual in the NFB, or maybe they had a cause that they wanted supported. We unfortuantely can't take on everyone's cases, some because of limited resources, and some because they are not winable. Many of us have disagreements on this board from time to time, but we don't go off and hate each other usually and discount everything the other person says. Finally, I think that at times, some of our tactics make people uncomfortable. That is unfortunate, but without some discomfort and confrontation, there will be no change. Black people did not get anywhere by always going to the back of the bus. David Andrews ... Your Sound Alternative -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (11/14/90)
Index Number: 11691 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Hi David, I am a federationist and I am tired of blind people putting down the organization and a lot of the don't even know the philosophy or what we are trying to do. I know that the organization has helped a lot of people and sometimes being militant is required to get people to listen. Well, take care and catch youlater. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org
Jeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (11/14/90)
Index Number: 11696 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] DA> I am continuouly surprised at the amount and level DA> of anti NFB sentiment and venom on this Echo. I think that, for the most part, the sentiment is not anti-NFB, per se, but rather a reaction against those few who blindly follow the party line without thinking for themselves. As the song from Gilbert and Sullivan's "HMS Pinafore" goes: I always voted at my party's call and I never thought of thinking for myself at all... -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!729!Jeff.Salzberg Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f729.n106.z1.fidonet.org
Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11774 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] GM> Hi David, GM> I am a federationist and I am tired of blind people GM> putting down the organization and a lot of the don't even know GM> the philosophy or what we are trying to do. I know that the GM> organization has helped a lot of people and sometimes being GM> militant is required to get people to listen. Well, take care GM> and catch youlater. --- TBBS v2.1/NM Greg, I think that your wrong when you say that most blind people who put NFB down do not know the organization. I believe that most blind people know nfb and acb and I am meeting more and more blind people who are turned off by both organizations, not because of the philosophy but because of the leadership and political nature of both. tom G -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org
Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11795 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Warren, "...stay away from blind issues." Interesting way of puting it. I guess you'll here from radical types (in or out of any group), that "you can't stay from blind issues." On the other hand I suspect that what they want is to be accepted and valued by the community at large rather than be cast into a blind ghetto. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (11/17/90)
Index Number: 11809 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] The National Federation of the Blind is an organization of the blind speaking out for the blind. One of the problems that blind people have had is that for years sighted people were dictating to us and deciding for us what our needs are. It is good that blind people are speaking for themselves because we know what our needs are and what needs to be done more than most sighted people. Most consumer organizations are political in nature but what we need to focus on is what NFB has done forthe blind. Let us look at the evidence. Do you like being treated as a second class citizen? Do you like being told that you are not capable of sitting in an exit row but a baby or an elderly lady is? Are you happy with the attitudes of others toward you as a blind person? We can not judge an organization based on the political ideas of a few people. I think it is time for blind people to objectively look at what NFB has done and then decide if it is a worth while organization. Let us look at the results. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org
Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (11/20/90)
Index Number: 11860 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] You are so right Warren. As a past chapter president, State board member, State P.R. officer, and one who took the NFB philosophy to heart I have to say that it is truely the political nature of the organization that turns me off. People aren't important and neither are individuals except for the politicos who bager their way to positions on the board and in as officers. When ?Doctor Journigan was President he always made the people in the chapters, officers, and the state officers feel that they were important. With Mark Mauer it is Polotics that is the most important and who can beat out who. NFB is not the organization it once was and that is a shame. Grant -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org
Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren) (11/20/90)
Index Number: 11875 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] GM> The National Federation of the Blind is an organization of the blind GM> speaking out for the blind. True, but it isn't the only one. gm> One of the problems that blind people have had GM> is that for years sighted people were dictating to us and deciding for us GM> what our needs are. It is good that blind people are speaking for GM> themselves because we know what our needs are and what needs to be done GM> more than most sighted people. Most consumer organizations are political GM> in nature But not dictatorial. gm> but what we need to focus on is what NFB has done forthe blind. Ok, let's do. GM> Let us look at the evidence. Do you like being treated as a second class GM> citizen? No, but that still happens. gm> Do you like being told that you are not capable of sitting in an GM> exit row but a baby or an elderly lady is? That doesn't bother me, and we still can't sit in an exit row. gm> Are you happy with the GM> attitudes of others toward you as a blind person? Most of the time. gm> We can not judge an GM> organization based on the political ideas of a few people. I think it is GM> time for blind people to objectively look at what NFB has done and then GM> decide if it is a worth while organization. Let us look at the results. ok. We have, and what does it show? Walter -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org
Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11929 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Here is a good one that will get me in trouble. 1. The NFB is like cancer-cures. The cure might work but it will kill you. 2. We all might just need the cure! Okay, that said. The NFB has done quality work, and continues to do so. However the reputation as the lunatic fringe of the blind is upon them. And in many cases well deserved. Blind people are just as good, bad, and ugly as the next guy, because we are the next guy. But, why do we tolerate some of the jerks who walk around saying how independent they are and fighting constantly for their rights and being damned proud of it, when all they are really doing is making themselves different from the rest of the society? Some NFB-types would like the world to know they are damned gonna fight for their rights, and dammit that will come first. Thats just strange in my opinion, you should fight for your right when you need to, but there is no need to keep beating people over the head with the idea--it won't do you or them any good. Sure the ranges of fanaticism must be enforced in all things, but fanatics of any kind are generally just a big pain in the you know where. The wimps of the world will always be there as we all know--but then we don't have to let them off the hook either. If people give up on their rights they won't have any. A simple balance of the main line should be kept more in both blind organizations, and also they should learn not to take themselves so seriously, he--double toothpicks, neither organization for the blind is big enough to cause that much damage in a real sense, such as the National Rifle Association, or Right to Life, or National Organization of Women. Okay, I'm off my soap box. Thanks for a provoking msg. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143.0!Al.Hoffman Internet: Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Henry.Kasten@p0.f33.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11936 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Wow Al, you hit the nail right on the head in your message to Walter, not bad for a Blind guy. You spoke of the NFB as the lunatic fringe, heck fire Al, any group or organization that advocates change is on the fringe of lunacy. You said, "why do we tolerate some of the jerks who walk around saying how independent they are and fighting constantly for their rights and being damned proud of it, when all they are really doing is making themselves different from the rest of the society?" Very well put, and certainly thought provoking. I agree with you. I really wish those jerks would just shut up and leave well enough alone. Look at all the hassle and headaches jerks like Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr. and Morris Frank caused. If those jerks and jerks like them had just relaxed and followed our line of reasoning you stated so eloquently,"there is no need to keep beating people over the head with the idea--it won't do you or them any good." Life would be so grand, think of it , we could be sitting around getting fat while the rest of the world takes care of us. We wouldn't have to learn to read or use our minds to make hard decisions like which computer to get since we wouldn't need them. What a utopian world wi Blinks would live in. In fact we could change our name from blinks to bumps. You are so correct when you say, A simple balance of the main line should be kept more in both blind organizations, and also they should learn not to take themselves so seriously,". The NFB and ACB should be do nothing say nothing organizations, their mission should be one of providing social affairs for blinks. You are so intuitive when you say, "neither organization for the blind is big enough to cause that much damage in a real sense," Blinks make up such a small part of the population. It would really be a major waste of time and effort to hassle people about such silly things such as equal rights. We should be thankful for what we have, and leave well enough alone. Besides, with rights comes responsibility. And who wants that. Al, if you weren't a blink, I would say you should go on a speaking tour, but, then again, what can one person do? Henry -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!33.0!Henry.Kasten Internet: Henry.Kasten@p0.f33.n130.z1.fidonet.org
Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11940 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] whole heartedly agree!! you just need to look at a certain nfb state officer espousing her independence and watch her constantly holding her sighted friends arm! just because we're blind dosn't mean we're blind! dan.. out of sight, out of my mind! -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org
Tandy.Way@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way) (11/21/90)
Index Number: 11943 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] amen to all your comments grant. when I was in my fight with social security neither n f b or a c b would help because if they couldn't run the whole show they didn't want a part of it for their personal gratification so if you have trouble you better watch out for yourself and do have the illution that one or the other national group who perports to help the blind is going to help you. rubbish I fought, I won, and I conquered hands down. tandy ... When you're really in doubt, press RESET. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Tandy.Way Internet: Tandy.Way@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org
Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12138 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] you asked why I thought that Doctor Journigan was not in control of the NFB? Since he stepped won as President there have been many attitudinal changes at the national level. Mark Mauer seems to represent all political and to heck with the individual concept. Doctor Journigan onthe other hand was quite personable and so were the people who worked with him. No doubt Doctor Journigan has some control but not in the same way he used to. Grant -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org
Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12142 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] You are so right that if the NFB or ACB can't run the hole show they don't like to take a case. That has not changed. Congradulations on winning though. The more we win the better off we are and the better off blind people in the future will be. Grant -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Grant.Downey Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (12/04/90)
Index Number: 12147 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] GD> you asked why I thought that Doctor Journigan was not in GD> control of the NFB? Since he stepped won as President there GD> have been many attitudinal changes at the national level. Mark GD> Mauer seems to represent all political and to heck with the GD> individual concept. Doctor Journigan onthe other hand was quite GD> personable and so were the people who worked with him. No GD> doubt Doctor Journigan has some control but not in the same way GD> he used to. Grant Grant, let me asure you that Dr. Jernigan is in full control of the organization. tom G -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org
Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12240 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] If Doctor Journigan is in as much control as you say all I can respond with is that there has certainly been a change in attitude in the organizations over the past fifteen years I guess. I'm speaking as an ex chapter president of eleven years, state P.R. chairperson for five, State board member, and one who worked as hard as I possible could and basically got shot down for it because, well I wasn't ratical enough I guess. Grant Tandy Way had amessage on here that I saw a couple of days ago that said something to the effect that unless it is a case that will benefit the organizations either ACB or NFB that neither organization is to the blind individual's benefit. Regretibly I think he's right. Tom, I had and still have a tremendous ammount of respect for Dr. Journigan and aways will as heHe always made sense, uhleld the NFB phlosophy, and was a real roll model model as at least he made the appearance of really caring about the organization, but notjust the officers and the board members on the national level, but also the people who worked on the state and local levels and that is what has changed so dromatically. Grant -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org
Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Al Hoffman) (12/05/90)
Index Number: 12262 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Hi Tom: You are a new name for me in this echo. Glad to have you here. the more the merrier. Anyway, sometimes I get down on the old NFB'ers, but then sometimes I see some stupid news person saying things like just tonight, CBS news Bob Faw in California talking about is it right to put premes through hell to save a life. Anyway his bad example for the camera was a blind baby, who was saved, at the cost of his sight and a huge mmedical bill--hell I was a preme, I went through hell to see as long as I did, and that stupid fool on a national show acted as if I am not worth it. OK gang lets all getogather and have a group shout off. Then we will feel better, and its too bad they didn't just say the hell with me? Oh well, lifes not supposed to be fair anyway. If life were fair what would we watch without the war, cop, and soap-shows? Have fun, and I am not really as militant on NFB as I sound sometimes, I just ate people and organizations who take themselves too seriously--if you want to hear the same sentiments put best, watch the George Carlyn HBO comedy hour this month--its great. Later! -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!143.0!Al.Hoffman Internet: Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Lee.Mounger@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Lee Mounger) (01/23/91)
Index Number: 13126 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] After thinking about it and reading all the messages concerning the N FB, I have a couple of thoughts to share. For one thing, I have noticed the discussion between Nfb members and ex-members and non-members becoming more heated over the past weeks. Whether we are pro-Nfb or not, I think it might help everyone to remember that really reasonable dialog and debate using a series of short messages over a period of days or weeks is almost impossible. For example, I believe that if David Andrews, Grant Downey, Jeff Salzberg and myself were to sit down at a table for several hours, armed with our four disstinct viewpoints and all being intelligent and reasonable people, after using thousands of words over a short period of time, we would all leave with a better understanding of each other's reasons for feeling the way we do. However, the Nfb debate on this echo only seems to serve the purpose of giving angry people the opportunity to vent their anger. Although this is probably good therapy, it doesn't make for good debate. I suspect that there are too many good people involved on both sides of the Nfb controversy so I think I'll just stay out of that particular thread from now on. It would be stupid of me to form oppinions of people I've never met because of their beliefs on one given subject. I belive Jamal was treated shabbily by the national leadership of the Nfb and, as of now, I have no desire to join, but that's only my viewpoint and its certainly subject to change, although probably not from anything I'll read on blinktalk. Later. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Lee.Mounger Internet: Lee.Mounger@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (01/23/91)
Index Number: 13159 Your points are very well taken and after a little thought I think you [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] are right. It is easy to really get fired up and really angry when you have put your whole self, time, effort, and desire into making your area of expertees in an organization work. Most certainly I blew off some steem in my comments but I do think that if we all sat down around a table, at a party, or wherever, all of those with varing opinions would maybe not come away with totally changed perspectives but would at least have a better understanding. I recall a time for many years when I was a dyhard NFB member ready to defend with all wepons available to me . Not only was I visually disabled, I was blind in my thinking process following like a sheep and spouting off any time I had a change the defense of the organized blind. I would never do that again in any lorganization but I've got a few years under my belt and hopefully some maturity along the way. However I still have a strong desire to do my part to make things better for people with visual disabilities and if there was a viable chapter here I would jolin the ACB as it seems as though at present the ACB leadership has a much more logical and well thought out approach to problem solving for the blind. Grant -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org
Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui) (02/06/91)
Index Number: 13566 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] Hi David! Congratulations on your new job as Director of the NFB's newly established "National Braille and Technology Center"! I missed the beginning of the threads in which you apparently stated that there had been much misinformation about the NFB here. Ido not know whether you referred in part to statements I have made. If so, I wonder what you think I have misinformed people about. I am an honest person by nature and certainly have not deliberately misinformed people here or anywhere else about the NFB. If I have unintentionally made erroneous statements, then I will be glad to be corrected. David, you and I have been friends and colleagues for several years. I hope that your new position at NFB headquarters in Baltimore does not compromise too much the dedicated but reasonable and humane person I know. --Jamal-- -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org
David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (03/26/91)
Index Number: 14154 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] JM> I missed the beginning of the threads in which you apparently JM> stated that there had been much misinformation about the NFB JM> here. Ido not know whether you referred in part to statements JM> I have made. If so, I wonder what you think I have misinformed JM> people about. I am an honest person by nature and certainly JM> have not deliberately misinformed people here or anywhere else JM> about the NFB. Jamal, I was not refeering to your statements when I spoke about misinformation. You presented the events concerning you from the perspective you know. I might interpret them differently then you, but when I talked about misinformation, I was speaking of other things, such as a current statement that says that the NFB makes its scholarship winners go to the schools that the NFB chooses. As a past scholarship winner you will know that this isn't true. ... Your Sound Alternative -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org