Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13937
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi James,
Your msg was quite interesting wherein you described the
interaction of the thought process with language when thinking
visually instead of aurally (my paraphrase, but how I read it) It
really does make sense! I only knew that when Mary's therapists
were trying to make Mary sign SEE it slowed her down and when she
just wanted to get her msg across (communicate!) it seemed tedious
and unecessary and even stilted. Also the fact that she (on her
own) was developing ASL-like word order etc, suggests that this is
more natural to signing.
Of the 2, ASL is definitely my preferred form. I understand
where Ann was coming from --in the idea that SEE would make the
transition to spoken (and written) English less difficult --but in
regular conversation ASL just does seems more natural.
--Fran
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13955
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Fran, to tell the truth, SEE as well as other forms of MCE (manually
coded English) has been around for years and they have not done the
majority of the deaf any good at all. However MCE has confused and
stagnated the eduvcation of many deaf people. There are exceptions
here and there, but more most, it has done nothing. Indeed, the SEE
an dother MCE'ers often dump these pseudo languages once they are out
of the school system and among their own "people."
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13976 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > Fran, to tell the truth, SEE as well as other forms of MCE > (manually coded English) has been around for years and > they have not done the majority of the deaf any good at > all. However MCE has confused and stagnated the eduvcation > of many deaf people. There are exceptions here and there, > but more most, it has done nothing. Indeed, the SEE an > dother MCE'ers often dump these pseudo languages once they > are out of the school system and among their own "people." James, I am wondering if perhaps your information is based on your regional area and not the whole country in general. I don't feel your facts are supportive of all areas. You really should consider checking out several organizations, SHHH for an example, to understand what I'm getting at - I really think SHHH is a wonderful organization to be involved in since there are NO barriers and they offer ALL forms of communcation for their members. It was with such amazement to me when I attended my first convention last summer what all was provided for us and not one of us felt out of place. It didn't matter whether we signed or spoke, we all communicated with each other and all had a wonderful time. I like to see ALL mingle together and work as a team like the SHHH members do. I met some super people from all walks of life and all parts of the country. Galluadet had several representatives as well as many others. This is really the way things should be. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (03/21/91)
Index Number: 14088
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
I wonder if youare aware that many deaf people's SAT scores and the
number of deaf people entering colleges declined within 5 years after
the SEE, Total Communication, L O V E and other MCE systems hit the
educational field? Know why, deaf teachers were eased out the profession
in slightly larger numbers and the educational philosophy of deaf programs
swung back to oral and English only approaches which have been proven
to not work over and over again.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgFran.O'gorman@f41.n267.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (03/23/91)
Index Number: 14131
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi James,
You mentioned a drop in SAT scores at a time when SEE and
some of the other signing methods were becoming more prevalent in
the schools and conclude that is the reason, however, it does
perhaps correspond with the national decline in SAT scores and so
it is not necessarily proof conclusive that it is because of that.
I like ASL for it's natural flow, and this is not an
endorsement of one method over the other as much as to say, that
those declining SAT scores is something the whole nation has
experienced and the fact that kids don't read recreationally as
much as they used to MIGHT be a contributing factor.
--Fran
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!267!41!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f41.n267.z1.fidonet.orgALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET (David James) (04/10/91)
Index Number: 14662 In THE HANDICAP DIGEST Issue # 1883, James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) writes; > I wonder if youare aware that many deaf people's SAT scores and the > number of deaf people entering colleges declined within 5 years after > the SEE, Total Communication, L O V E and other MCE systems hit the > educational field? Know why, deaf teachers were eased out the profession > in slightly larger numbers and the educational philosophy of deaf programs > swung back to oral and English only approaches which have been proven > to not work over and over again. Assuming that this is true, there's another possible explanation. This probably happened as true mainstreaming was becoming much more common than it had been, and many students who would in an earlier period have gone to schools for the deaf went instead to ordinary schools where all the other students were hearing. (I spell this out because Mr. Womack seems to use "mainstreaming" to refer to educational programs which use signs--SEE, TC, etc.--in a major way. A truly mainstreamed deaf student does not use, or likely even know, any signs for the simple reason that no one else in his/her environment does.) The kind of academic aptitude that leads to high SAT scores makes a deaf person especially likely to do well in ordinary schools and stay in the (true) mainstream. Such people and their SAT scores often do not show up in statistics about the deaf. --David James ALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET DMJAMES@GALLUA.BITNET