James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (03/01/91)
Index Number: 13814
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Wanna improve your sign skills? Good! Make it your business to get
involved with deaf groups in the community. Show up, offer to help
out with projects, give a valid reason for being around etc.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgJay.Croft@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13923
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Well, Kevin, go for it! There are sign language classes in your area.
Seattle Community College is an "outpost" for Gallaudet University; I'm
sure that they offer classes.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!147.0!Jay.Croft
Internet: Jay.Croft@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13926
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Kevin... Don't wish you were deaf.. Be who YOU are.. Don't regret
who you are. Don't try to be something that you are not..
But still, you can learn sign language and perhaps be accepted into the
deaf community. There are rare hearing people that can fit into and be
accepted by the Deaf community. You could be one.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.orgStEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (StEpHeN wHiTe) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13960
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
You write to Womack and Womack (sorry, couldn't resist!)
TS> So, I'm curious.. (Excuse me but I'm new here.) you strike me as
TS> a deaf indivual who signs ASL and is equally accomplished in the
TS> English laguage.. If I am right. This is really interesting,
TS> since I am "deaf as a post", deffie, whatever.. And ASL is my
TS> first language. I have never met a "real" deaf person that is as
TS> accomplished at slingin' the english lingo as you...
Depends on what you mean by a "real" deaf person.
Take me for example. I am "profoundly" deaf from birth, at 110db+
loss all throughout the frequency range. However, I have an
_extremely_ rare form of deafness, which hasn't even been proven to
exist. The range of volume between perception and pain is
_compressed_. It would be better to demonstrate visually.
db levels
-------
| |
| |
| |
| |
??? 300db | | <-- loudest deaf person can stand
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
??? 200db | | <-- loudest hearing person can stand
| |
| |
| |
??? 150db |.......| <-- loudest I can stand before pain
|.......|
|.......|
110db |.......| <-- quietest I can hear
| |
80db | | <-- quietest deaf person can hear
| |
| |
| |
| |
5db | | <-- quietest a hearing person can hear
-------
I'm not sure of the upper levels...
Remember that the db scale is logarithmic, which means that 11db is
2.71 times (or something like that) louder as 10db.
Because of the rare nature of my hearing, there are a few strange
results. Because of the lowered threshold of pain, I'm prenaturally
sensitive to the sounds which fall within that bandwidth.
At this point, I'll have to use a very inexact anology to give an
idea of the differing amounts of perception of sound between myself
and a normal deaf person.
Imagine an upright post with the bottom stuck in the ground. If you
push at top of the post, then the top of the post will move as much
as your hand pushes it. If you push at the bottom of the post, the
top of the post will move much further than your hand moves.
Thus, I can perceive sounds, just a little bit above my lowest
threshold, easily.
I also have none of the distortion of hearing that usually goes
with nerve deafness. As a result, with powerful hearing aids, I can
hear sounds.
It gets quite ironic.
I am deafer than most deaf people, even the really deaf ones.
However, I talk almost perfectly, and lipread excellently. I went
to a normal school for most of my life, up until Year 12; then I
needed more specialised help, so I went to a school for the deaf.
The students there wouldn't believe that I am really deaf. They
asked me what I was doing in the school.
I didn't have any trouble making friends (I never do), but I never
really meshed in. My sense of humour didn't fit the deaf sense of
humour, being rather twisted, and of a hearie flavour. In fact, the
deaf person is a remarkably humourless sort of fellow.
I learnt sign language very rapidly, picking up in a month what it
would take the average person two years. I was told that I only
needed to do it for another two years (average person two years
that is; the person didn't know how long it took to get to my
current level) before my level of signing accomplishment would be
almost indistinguishable from someone that had been signing since
birth.
Yet, I was unable to progress any further. Nobody was willing to
correct me when I used English phrasing, not an Auslan (Australian
Sign Language) phrasing. How am I supposed to learn to sign
_properly_ when they don't tell me that I'm not signing properly?
I've never really been part of either the deaf or hearing
community. It is a lonely position.
It has to be said; the deaf children in that school were a
singuarly moronic lot. They were a bunch of rather simpleminded
fools, not in the least bit interested in anything beyond the
understanding of a child of about fourth grade.
Note that I was the same age as them. I call them children because
of their stage of development.
I blame the teachers for that. It was a signing school, not an oral
school, but the teachers were so incredibly incompetent in signing
that they ended up talking most of the time. Those kids will be
graduating with a reading and writing level of about fifth grade,
and social awareness of third grade.
The teachers were also appallingly foul specimens of the teacher
genre. They screamed, ranted, raved, practised intellectual
cruelty, and subjected the kids to all forms of repression;
physical and mental.
The poor kids never knew any better. I did, having come from a
normal school; and I thought all the teachers deserved to be
removed from their jobs with extreme prejudice. They still do.
That year was _the_ worst year of my life. I came close to cracking
under the strain they put me through. Almost every single day, two
or three of my so-called helpers would call me out of classes and
subject me to half hour sessions (an hour if they got into their
stride) of abuse and threats of violence.
I couldn't do a bloody thing. If I objected, I would be thrown out
and my chance at University ruined.
I just stared blankly at them when they screamed at me, ignored
them telling the other teachers lies about me, and played truant
for almost a third of the year because I couldn't face it. At 18
years old - legally, physically, and mentally an adult. I doubt
many people could have stood the shit I went though.
I used to dream of beating the shit out of my headmaster and the
teachers almost every night. Pistols, bazookas, baseball bats, and
lots of gore and pulped heads featured in great detail. After I
left, it took me about 4 or 5 months before I had fully recovered
from the trauma.
I had the last laugh though. Without any real effort, I sat and
passed my Matriculation exams, and got into University. So much for
being an intellectual zero like they accused me of being.
The teachers didn't know that. When the new year started, they told
all the remaining children that I had failed (a breach of privacy;
they broke the law there), and I had the great satisfaction of
writing to inform them that I got into University, and that one of
the offers that I had (which I didn't accept) was a Bachelor of
Education, Teacher of the Deaf.
To give you an idea of how perverted that school is - the year
after I left, the headmaster (my worst adversary) hung himself. He
was faced with charges of assulting students, sexual haressment of
the female teachers, and had problems with his family.
Good riddance to scum, is my opinion. May he burn in hell.
Before anyone can argue about mainstreaming, try considering the
type of vermin put in charge of deaf children.
Hmm, I got rather sidetracked. The people in Abled will have have
heard this spiel once before. You can wake up now!
Anyway, I'm a "real" deafie from my perspective, but I don't know
whether other deaf people would think the same.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!StEpHeN.wHiTe
Internet: StEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (03/15/91)
Index Number: 13967
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
What you described as happening at your school fo rthe deaf happens
in mainstreaming programs as well. Any agency that abuses the people
,especially those it is meant to serve is scum as you say. There are
some extraordinarily fine mainstreaming programs that don't ignore
the multi-needs of their deaf students and are models of what a real
mainstreaming program should be. There are some extraordinary schools
for the deaf that do not ignore the lulti-needs of their students and
are models of what a real school for the deaf should be like. Don't
close your mind to one or the other on a wholesale stereotyped basis,
there are exceptions.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgStEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (StEpHeN wHiTe) (03/28/91)
Index Number: 14528
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
TS> Deaf people humorless? Oh yeah, right.
Considering their physical age, yes.
Try utilising rich humour on a child, and see how much goes over
their heads. They were like children at that school. Not because
they were deaf, but because of the teachers lack of capability.
Adult deaf are an entirely different thing altogether.
TS> So, from your own personal experience at that school you are
TS> making generalizations? (Just asking)
And this is all you got out of my entire post? A point of
contention over my statement that the deaf children at that school
were rather humourless? Becaus you perceive it as putting all deaf
people down?
No, you've made the wrong assumption.
How about communicating, instead of confronting?
PS. I see Jay Croft's message to you:
JC> I guess the reason my congregation laughed at the jokes in my
JC> sermon yesterday is because they are humorless.
How nice. All ganging up on the newcomer, eh?
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!StEpHeN.wHiTe
Internet: StEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (03/28/91)
Index Number: 14533
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
I may seem overly defensive to you and that would be understandable.
Understandable how that I may seem to come off to you that way. However,
on this echo, at my workplace and in the realms where hearie-forced
philosophy is crammed downthe throats of Deaf people, a saturation
point has been reached. Others like me are saying no more! Back off!
Let's try things differently now and givethem the same chances that
you gave your failures. In our efforts to be resp[ected as people and
professionals we are stoned-walled, we find our language belittled,
our ideas trivalized, words and characteristics attributed to use that
are not factual, systems orientated to keep us out while ips speak
of the new inclusion of deaf people and in some cases, outright lies
and even being laughed and treated like children. Many of us have just
reached to point where we are saying, "Ok, I am not backing up anymore,
you back up now." Yes, I may seem overly defensive to you but guess
who made me and others like me this way? Guess how many years of frustration
from seeing what we have known in our gut is right being ignored and
derided? Heck, even a log in a river reaches a point where the water
makes it sink rather than float. Sunken and semi-emerged logs can be
quite a danger, I tell you.
You reach a point where you are less tolerant of attacks on things
, especially when you perceive them as unjust. In your case, theon-going
battle here in Tucson and some rather serious put downs of ASL and
residential schools were just other examples of out right attacks onthe
dignity of Deaf people that kind of all come together at the wrong
time. I suppose I should beg your pardon for being human- a Deaf one
to boot.
Gee, am I really writting all this? Guess so. Boy what a day. Hard
to believe what happened at work today. My deaf staff colleagues had
their proposals shoot to hell. When we voted on a structure for meetings
with the administration, the meeting was terminated. Boy, did that
set off some of the deafies!
Ok, Steph, I might have jumped you unfairly at the time. I will even
concede that it might have been unjust as well. However, are you 100%
innocent of such a sin? Are you immune to seeing "your" people treated
in the manner I mentioned earlier and along withthem reaching a point
where you say, "We aren't going to take this muck anymore, now move
over or get run over"?
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Labell@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.org (David Labell) (04/11/91)
Index Number: 14758
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Speaking of Marlee Matlin, there is a very moving scene in her film,
"Children of a Lesser God," that I'd like to say something about here.
William Hurt, her boyfriend, is playing the slow second movement of
Bach's Double Concerto on the stereo. Matlin asks Hurt to explain
what he finds so interesting in the music.
The roles are reversed here, as Hurt attempts, with his hands, to
describe what is happening. Briefly, two solo violins play continuous
intertwined melodies against an orchestral background that is lush
and sensuous. Hurt uses his hands, describing a violin with each of
them.
Being a lifetime admirer of this very musical moment, this was a stunning
performance, almost like dance rather than sign language.
Iguess you could say that it would be easier to explain the music
of Bach to the deaf than the music of Chopin, say, because Bach's
music has form and structure and even SHAPE, while Chopin's has mainly
color and texture, ideas that can't be described adequately in words.
Anyway, it was a very moving scene. It was meant for the hearing members
of the audience, and it was intended to teach us an important lesson,
which I think I managed to grasp.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!147.0!David.Labell
Internet: David.Labell@p0.f147.n109.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (04/11/91)
Index Number: 14764 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > William Hurt, her boyfriend, is playing the slow second > movement of Bach's Double Concerto on the stereo. Matlin > asks Hurt to explain what he finds so interesting in the > music. Yes, this is a very moving scene in the movie. I also enjoyed the classroom sessions William Hurt had with his students and the scene with the young girl singing "BAH BAH RAH RAH BOOM BOOMRANG" (I'm not sure I have all of that correct) and the musical recital these students put on for their parents. It was wonderful and showed that deaf children can sing and dance and feel the music. I had a very moving experience a few years ago with a close friend who is a teacher (computer lab/remedial reading for elementary children) who tried to demonstrate all of the musical sounds from Phantom of the Opera. He put earphones on me and acted out several songs from the CD of this wonderful musical. I was so moved that tears were rolling down my face. He also did the same for the musical CATS which had me almost rolling on the floor with laughter. I have since seen the touring Broadway play of CATS and loved every minute of it. As you probably are aware, I do not sign even though I do know how, I just feel more comfortable speaking and lip reading since I've always been an oralist. I agree that ASL is a beautiful language but I do think other modes of communication should be available and taught to our future/younger generation contrary to what you may have read on this echo. It is often hard to express one's opinion without offending others as so much of what one says is often misunderstood or distorted, especially since I hate to see the deaf community split into different groups simply because of the way they communicate. Whew - I guess I did ramble on a bit, huh? Sorry about that - and I'd like to welcome you to SilentTalk. It's a pleasure to have newcomers join us. I hope you will enjoy the echo as much as I do. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org