[misc.handicap] EMPLOYMENT

Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/10/90)

Index Number: 9674

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

        With the recent passage of the ADA bill there is going to
be a push on to hire the handicapped in the next few years. 
Several questions come to mind:

        1.  For the employed, how do you feel about your job and 
job performance?

        2.  For the unemployed, what skills do you have which 
will be useful to an employer?

        3.  For the employed, do you feel you give more or less 
hours than those you're paid for?

        4.  For the unemployed, do you think you can give 40 
hours of works for 40 hours of pay?

        5.  For the unemployed, how are you going to convince an 
employer you have the skills and ability to perform the job?

                             -=joe=-

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Frank.Whitney@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Frank Whitney) (08/10/90)

Index Number: 9675

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

>        With the recent passage of the ADA bill there is going to 
>be a push on to hire the handicapped in the next few years. 
>Several questions come to mind: 
Joe, these questions are quite valid for both the able-bodied as well 
as the disabled.  One thing that troubles me is that I've met during  
my hospital stays quite a few disabled that just don't want to work.  
If these individuals get hired then it's going to be more difficult 
for the sincere workers.
Frank.

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Curtis.Oglesby@p13.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.org (Curtis Oglesby) (08/10/90)

Index Number: 9676

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

In a message to All <03 Aug 90 19:47:00> Joe Chamberlain wrote:

 JC>        With the recent passage of the ADA bill there is going to
 JC> be a push on to hire the handicapped in the next few years.
 JC> Several questions come to mind:

 JC>        1.  For the employed, how do you feel about your job and
 JC> job performance?

Personally, I feel very good about my job and my job performance.
What I do makes an impact and I'm recognized in my performance
ratings.  Accomodations have been made, though they did not happen
instantly.  I've had my ups and downs, but I currently have few
complaints.

 JC>        2.  For the unemployed, what skills do you have which
 JC> will be useful to an employer?

If you don't have marketable skills, utilize whatever resources are
available to get them.  It won't be easy, but it can be done.

 JC>        3.  For the employed, do you feel you give more or less
 JC> hours than those you're paid for?

I probably give more hours than I'm paid for.  But, it's by my choice.
I like my job.

 JC>        4.  For the unemployed, do you think you can give 40
 JC> hours of works for 40 hours of pay?

I had to start out working half-days.  But my strength and stamina were
nil at the time.

 JC>        5.  For the unemployed, how are you going to convince an
 JC> employer you have the skills and ability to perform the job?

The "skill" or "art" of selling yourself is probably one of the
hardest to master.  First, you must have the confidence that you
can do the job; otherwise, why are you there?  You must have a good
understanding of what the job requires and how you would overcome
any limitations you have; only you know how your particular
disability affects your performance.  The keyword is Confidence.

Curt

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Jerry.Pickup@p33.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.org (Jerry Pickup) (08/10/90)

Index Number: 9677

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

In a message to All <03 Aug 90 19:47:00> Joe Chamberlain wrote:

 JC>        1.  For the employed, how do you feel about your job and
 JC> job performance?

I like what I do (computer programmer) and enjoy my work.  I work
my buns off and I feel I do an excellent job.

 JC>        3.  For the employed, do you feel you give more or less
 JC> hours than those you're paid for?

More.  I often stay a little late if I'm working on something
important and I always try to be there at least 15 minutes or so
before I'm supposed to.

 JC>        5.  For the unemployed, how are you going to convince an
 JC> employer you have the skills and ability to perform the job?

Ok, I'll cheat and answer this one too.  Sometimes you aren't
sure.  I was fresh out of school when I got my job and was not at
all certain that I would be a great programmer.  I knew I liked it
so I took the big chance and gave it all I had.  Said lots of
prayers and did alot of sweating but figured one of two things
would happen.  1) I'd make it  or 2) I wouldn't.  There was only
one way to find out.  I'm glad I took the chance.

                                  -Jerry

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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/11/90)

Index Number: 9723

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

 FW> as the disabled.  One thing that troubles me is that I've met during  
 FW> my hospital stays quite a few disabled that just don't want to work.  
 FW> If these individuals get hired then it's going to be more difficult 
 FW> for the sincere workers.

        This has always been a problem.  However, with the ADA I
believe there will be a push by some of these individuals
DEMANDING their right to employment.  On the other hand, the good
worker will win out in the end.
                                -=joe=-

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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/11/90)

Index Number: 9725

 BK> Joe, I read your post about employment, and even though I'm employed, 
 BK> I'm definitely underemployed. At this point I'm not really sure where 
 BK> to proceed. I'm in connection with my local rehab now, but don't know 

        Start by developing a good resume.  Then read the want
ads daily.  Send you resume to those places you want a job.
Figure you will be turned down at least 99 times before finding a
job.  DO NOT take the rejections personally.  Just keep plugging
away.
                                -=joe=-

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Jerry.Pickup@p33.f1.n360.z1.fidonet.org (Jerry Pickup) (08/14/90)

Index Number: 9807

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

In a message to Frank Whitney <07 Aug 90  9:24:00> Joe Chamberlain wrote:

 > FW> as the disabled.  One thing that troubles me is that I've met during 
 > FW> my hospital stays quite a few disabled that just don't want to work. 

 JC>        This has always been a problem.  However, with the ADA I
 JC> believe there will be a push by some of these individuals
 JC> DEMANDING their right to employment.  On the other hand, the good

Disabled people are individuals like anyone else and some are good
some are bad and some don't care.  I'm glad ADA passed, but I can
see where there is potential for abuse.  Just like laws concerning
hiring blacks, women, gays, etc.  I have always been in favor of
hiring the best one for the job no matter.

                                     -Jerry

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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/14/90)

Index Number: 9809

[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

 JP> I have always been in favor of hiring the
 JP> best one for the job no matter.
     
        I saw a nice statement the other day.  Should you hire a
person with a disability?  No!  Hire the person who can do the
job, if they are disabled and can do the job, then they have an
ability.
                                -=joe=-

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Bill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (08/14/90)

Index Number: 9827

Well Joe, good advice, however, as it's hard for me to read the
paper, your advice is a bit challenging to me. However, I'd be
interested in your input on a controversial topic for the blind
concerning employment. There are those who say that a blind person
should let a possible employer know about his disability in either
the cover letter or the resume. What does your gut feeling say to
you about that?

bk.

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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/14/90)

Index Number: 9836

 GZ> Like you, I'm a bit confused...perhaps I should say, reticent,.  I'm 
 GZ> working with VR trying to get full-time employment.  Also, I'm 
 GZ> concerned about them trying to force me into an "under-employment" 
 GZ> situation just so they can add another notch to their "success story 
 GZ> tab."
     
        Take the interview and job, but continue to seek better.
An employer is more inclined to hire an already employed disabled
individual who wants to move up than one who is underemployed and
in his perception untested in the workplace.

                                -=joe=-

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pjr@murdu.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Peter Rayner) (08/17/90)

Index Number: 9857

In article <13509@bunker.UUCP> Bill.Koppelmann@f666.n104.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>Index Number: 9827
> There are those who say that a blind person
>should let a possible employer know about his disability in either
>the cover letter or the resume. What does your gut feeling say to
>you about that?
>bk.
Ok, I'm in the middle of applying for jobs at the moment.  I am totally
blind and fairly early in an academic career.  This means that, despite the
fact  that my professional group is small I am unlikely to be individually
known.  I have taken two steps to deal with this problem.  Firstly I have
included the information that I am blind in a letter, preferably to the
person who will be conducting the interview.  Secondly I have brought the
two most important tools I use when meeting them (it's rarely a formal
interview, academic jobs don't seem to go like that).  So I show them the
PC and I show them stereocopier output to indicate that graphics is
manageable.  Then I deliberately try to deemphasize the issue.  Lastly I
will prompt my referees to comment on the extent to which they have
interacted differently with me than with other employees/students.  

I realize this is the upfront strategy and not the high moral ground.  I
should perhaps just stand on my academic record which is adequate.  Any
employer though deserves to know how I will do the job.  There are other
reasons too, particularly in an interview.  Their reaction to all this
stuff seems a good predictor of how much they will make an issue of my
blindness in the future.  If they're any good they will say something like
"hey wow, that's neat stuff now about that paper you wrote ..." and that
will be the end of it.  

Now does the strategy work:  Can't tell.  Have missed one job so far but
that was to one of the most saught-after places on the planet.  We'll see.
Hope this helps
Peter Rayner

Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/17/90)

Index Number: 9868

 CB> Do you think the provisions of Title One of the ADA will be of any 
 CB> help in getting good jobs ?

        When President Bush signed the American's with
Disabilities Act into law the hopes and expectations of the 
handicapped became a reality.  Many qualified disabled 
individuals are now seeking employment.

        According to a Harris Poll study in 1987 disabled workers
are superior or comparable to non-disabled in such areas as
reliability, productivity, attendance, and willingness to work
hard.

        How does the employer go about finding appropriate employees
for your operation?  Many states and counties maintain job banks of
handicapped individual who are looking for employment and their
skills.

        What benefits can the employer expect?
        There are special tax credits for hiring many disabled
individuals.  Some state agencies will pick up part of the
expense involved in accomodating special employees and the
remainder of the expense is tax deductible.

        It's good business to hire the handicapped.  Remember
that the employer is hiring an ability not a disability.

        Placing the right person in the right job is always the
goals of a good employer in any size office.

        Will the applicant with a disability need extra training
for the job?
        Accomodations are usually not expensive.  A DuPont scientist
with progressive MS was accomodated by varying his work hours and
installing a small ramp.  

        Some companies have guidelines which specify work sharing
and alternative arrangements, flex time, two part time people sharing
one full time job.  They are designed to increase participation of
people who cannot work 40 hours/week in the work force.

        The handicapped have shown that that they can accomplish
tough tasks in their personal lives.  They are the kind of go
getters that are needed in business.

        The business community has in thier hands the key to
the success of this ADA and they can unlock the splendid resource
of untapped human potential that will enrich us all

        The handicapped has in their the key to success of this
bill too.  They need to enter the work force as dedicated, loyal
employees who will bust their buns for the business, for
themselves, and the entire handicapped community.

                                -=joe=-

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Kevin.White@f120.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin White) (08/23/90)

Index Number: 9942

I hope this isnt a restricted area, my cousin is disabled
mentally and physically, he's about 10 now, and about the only
legible thing he can say is Cookie, he's very short for his age too,
or I'm too tall. :-)
 
Here in Washington there are ads for Disabled physically
and also from drug abuse, they seem to, and I dont want to sound
harsh, get paid more than a "normal" person would but I know
that even disabled people are normal, they just have differet
ways of doing things or ways that are harder to do things
than the rest of society, I'm a caring loving person so please
dont assume that I'm saying bad things, i care very much for
my little cousin.
  
Thanks for your time!
 
P.S. There once was a "disabled" person who was my age
and advertised she wanted someone caring and could live with
her small as she called it disabilities, I desperately wanted
to meet her and get to know her better, but I was with someone
that only lasted a month who was a former drug abuser and
I dont know if she still was every once in a while, what should
I do?  Put an ad in there asking for her, but I dont want to make
her feel worse by asking for "the disabled girl who wrote an ad
in here a month ago"..
 
thanks.
 
Love to all,
Kevin

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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (08/25/90)

Index Number: 9972

 KW> P.S. There once was a "disabled" person who was my age
 KW> and advertised she wanted someone caring and could live with
 KW> her small as she called it disabilities, I desperately wanted
 KW> to meet her and get to know her better, but I was with someone
 KW> that only lasted a month who was a former drug abuser and

        If you're looking to live with a handicapped individual
then you need only to read the want ad section of your newspaper.
A young man on the Spinal Injury echo was just looking for
attendent.  He found one.  I'm going to be looking for attendent
in the next few weeks.  There are always someone looking for
help.
        If you want further information call me at
1-302-323-1790.
                                -=joe=-

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era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold) (08/28/90)

Index Number: 9991

In article <13651@bunker.UUCP> Kevin.White@f120.n138.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>Index Number: 9942
>
>I hope this isnt a restricted area, my cousin is disabled
>mentally and physically, he's about 10 now, and about the only
>legible thing he can say is Cookie, he's very short for his age too,
>or I'm too tall. :-)

You're right, it's a restricted area.  A platoon of U.S. Marines is
on the way to your house right now.	:-)

>Here in Washington there are ads for Disabled physically
>and also from drug abuse, they seem to, and I dont want to sound
>harsh, get paid more than a "normal" person would but I know
>that even disabled people are normal, they just have differet

Let's get this straight, Kevin.  None of the persons with moderate
disabilities I know, are driving BMWs (or any car, for that
matter), or drinking Perrier.  As for the severely disabled ... have
you ever seen a spastic quad who didn't get physical therapy when
he was a teenager, and is now wrapped up into a ball?  So what's
your point??  I've heard enough crap from Ronnie Ray-guns about
welfare chiselers, to last a lifetime.

>P.S. There once was a "disabled" person who was my age
>and advertised she wanted someone caring and could live with
>her small as she called it disabilities, I desperately wanted
>to meet her and get to know her better, but I was with someone
>that only lasted a month who was a former drug abuser and
>I dont know if she still was every once in a while, what should
>I do?  Put an ad in there asking for her, but I dont want to make
>her feel worse by asking for "the disabled girl who wrote an ad
>in here a month ago"..

Could it have been *your* loss, not *hers*?

>Love to all,

Don't take this as a flame, Kevin.  You might even be a very nice
person.  But Gloria Steinem said something 20 years ago to the
effect of "Don't patronize me".  It's still good advice.
--
Ed Arnold * NCAR * POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307-3000 * 303-497-1253(voice)
303-497-1137(fax) * era@ncar.ucar.edu [128.117.64.4] * era@ncario.BITNET
era@ncar.UUCP * Edward.Arnold@f809.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

cas@mtdcb.att.com (Clifford A Stevens, Jr) (09/04/90)

Index Number: 10051

In article <13707@bunker.UUCP>, era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold) writes:
> Index Number: 9991
> In article <13651@bunker.UUCP> Kevin.White@f120.n138.z1.fidonet.org writes:
> >Index Number: 9942
> None of the persons with moderate disabilities I know, are driving BMWs
> (or any car, for that matter), or drinking Perrier.

Ed, 
No sarcasm intended, I'm just curious.  But how do you define severe and
moderate disabilities?  

------------
Militant Survivor!
	Cliff Stevens	MT1E228  att!cbnewsj!ncas  (908)671-7292

Bill.Mccullen@f230.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Mccullen) (09/05/90)

Index Number: 10105

I agree with your post, but take exception to one word, that being 
handicapped. I have a disability that makes it impossible to do 
physical labor. This is not a handicap as it does not get me down. I 
too have had problems getting employment. Even with VA vocrehab sending 
me to college, the job prospect aren't that great. One think to 
remember: We are abled in various areas, disable in only a few. We make 
excellent employees, dedicated and more loyal than most. Have a good 
positive image of yourselves and you can accomplish your goals. I 
started my own business because of my unemployability due to the 
disability I have. It isn't going at full speed but I am learning from 
my mistakes and eventually, this business will succeed....

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era@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold) (09/14/90)

Index Number: 10354

In article <13791@bunker.UUCP> cas@mtdcb.att.com (Clifford A Stevens, Jr)
writes:
|Index Number: 10051
|
|In article <13707@bunker.UUCP>, era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold) writes:
|> Index Number: 9991
|> In article <13651@bunker.UUCP> Kevin.White@f120.n138.z1.fidonet.org writes:
|> >Index Number: 9942
|> None of the persons with moderate disabilities I know, are driving BMWs
|> (or any car, for that matter), or drinking Perrier.
|
|Ed, 
|No sarcasm intended, I'm just curious.  But how do you define severe and
|moderate disabilities?  

Well, I'm no clinician.  But then, you're no Dan Quayle.  :-)

To me, "profound" means a case in which the brain stem is working,
but the cortex isn't.

"severe" means a case in which the person has no mobility, including
no ability to self-feed.

Everything else is moderate or mild.  I hope all the blinks and HIs
don't jump on me for this definition.  :-)

Cheers,
--
Ed Arnold * NCAR * POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307-3000 * 303-497-1253(voice)
303-497-1137(fax) * era@ncar.ucar.edu [128.117.64.4] * era@ncario.BITNET
era@ncar.UUCP * Edward.Arnold@f809.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Mark.Lang@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Lang) (10/09/90)

Index Number: 10978

     The President's Committee on employment for persons with 
disabilities will hold its annual conference in Dallas, Texas on the 
weekend of May 22-24, 1991 at the Loew's Anatole.  This is only the third 
time that this conference has been held outside of the Washington D.C. 
area.  The conference is open to the public, and the focus this year will 
be on the ADA.  If you would like additional information, please contact 
me at (817) 860-9708.

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Bill.Baughn@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Baughn) (02/27/91)

Index Number: 13696

      ITSA, an Arizona based nonprofit corporation was formed to offer
competetive employment for disabled Americans using computers in their
homes.  Business services include bookkeeping, income taxes, data entry,
word processing, computer aided design, drafting, medical transcription,
graphics, etc.

      Individuals who work through ITSA need their own IBM compatible
Computer, 24 pin printer, modem and software.  The corporation plans to
provide high-tech business solutions that will be processed by home based
disabled employees.

      Executive Director Bob Whetstone would like to know if there is any
national interest in the program and if anyone has had any problems doing
this type of work on a individual basis.  In addition, he would like to
hear of any program that is similar to ITSA

      Write to Bob Whetstone, ITSA, 416 N. Williams street, Suite A, Mesa,
AZ 85203

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madams@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael E. Adams) (03/07/91)

Index Number: 13835

In article <17848@bunker.UUCP> you write:
>Index Number: 13696
>
>      ITSA, an Arizona based nonprofit corporation was formed to offer
>competitive employment for disabled Americans using computers in their
>homes. 

>      Executive Director Bob Whetstone would like to know if there is any
>national interest in the program and if anyone has had any problems doing
>this type of work on a individual basis.

>Write to Bob Whetstone, ITSA, 416 N. Williams st., Suite A, Mesa,AZ 85203

[Note from Bill Mcgarry: I don't know of any e-mail address for Bob.
 Anyone else?]

Bill: 
   Can you find out if Bob has an e-mail path?  Did he intend to go 
national with his request for information?  I would love to share
my success, and failure, with running a home based computer programming
business.  I often think about how many disabled computer users
their must in cubbyholes, here and there, around the country.  What a wasted
resource.  If the business community could just learn how to tap in,
we could all benefit.

         (___)      |  Michael E. Adams
         (o o)      |  Custom Computer Programming
  /-------\ /       |  P.O. Box 5027
 / |     ||O        |  Chico,  California  95927-5025    U.S.A.
*  ||,---||         |
   ~~    ~~         |  internet: madams@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
No BULL bandwidth   |

madams@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael E. Adams) (03/14/91)

Index Number: 13900

> 	What I'd like to see get organized is  some central clearing
> 	house operated specifically for and by the physically disabled
> 	that would offer up jobs to a pool of
> 	programmers/technicians/designers.  Jobs could be done via
> 	telecommuting or on-site. 

It seems to me that "telecommuters" would be a great niche for a 
recruiter to get involved with.  Finding well qualified and eager
candidates, for computing jobs, within the dissabled community is
as easy as falling off a log.   Finding employers willing to take 
a small risk and hire someone sight-un-seen is not so easy.  

Soon the new ADA law will have an impact on the hiring practices 
of ALL business in America.  A smart recruiter, working on the internet,
could practically "corner the market" on telecommuting professionals.  

Job development is what we really need. 
Smooth talking salesmen (and women) who are able to contact serious 
employers and show them that there is an alternative workforce
in place, and looking for the opportunity to be useful. 

I wish I could do a better job of it for myself.  But then if I was 
qualified/capable of going around knocking on doors & talking to people 
face-to-face, I would not be trying so hard to make a carrer based on 
telecommuting.   

What do you think?

         (___)      |  Michael E. Adams
         (o o)      |  Custom Computer Programming
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Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (04/16/91)

Index Number: 14940

  To: madams@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael E. Adams)

>> What I'd like to see get organized is  some central clearing
>> house operated specifically for and by the physically disabled
>> that would offer up jobs to a pool of

 ME> Soon the new ADA law will have an impact on the hiring practices
 ME> of ALL business in America.  A smart recruiter, working on the
internet,
 ME> could practically "corner the market" on telecommuting professionals.

        LESKO already hires many handicapped.  They have an 800
number.  Internet has a JOBS echo where you will find just the
recuriter you seek.

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