Danny.Keys@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.org (Danny Keys) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12967
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
There are several problems with Genie; The first one is that there is
just to much text, and to many sub menus to scroll through before you
can make up your mind as to where you want to go.
Even though the system is designed with text, the programmers of the
system made the system available to a person who has no idea of how to
use a computer and a network, atleast that is how i see it.
The reason that Genie has the star service is probably because they were
loosing members.
I am using procomm 2.4.3, and I havent had any real problems other than
having to go through millians of menus just to get to where I want to
go.
Here are some solutions to the problem.
First of all I am using vocal-eyes and I will talk about the problems
from that standpoint.
After you are at the top of a menu that you are already used to, just
hit the shift or control key to halt the speech, and when the menu stops
scrolling, the computer will emit a beap, it is quite a bit faster than
listining to the voice prompts. then you can either make your
selection, or you can hit the, s, key and then the return key for
nonstop scrolling.
Also there are key words which you can use either in or out of the star
service.
for example;
*groliers *games
or
IBM APPLE
and many others.
If you learn the key words which you will probably be using, you just
type them at the prompt, and away you go off to some other minu.
The one thing which I really like about Genie is, Groliers.
It is fast, and they update the database quarterly.
Well, I hope that this has been of some help to you.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!119!5.0!Danny.Keys
Internet: Danny.Keys@p0.f5.n119.z1.fidonet.orgMary.Otten@p0.f1055.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Mary Otten) (04/20/91)
Index Number: 15053
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
There's quite a bit of activity related to speech programs on genie,
including a vocalize area, which, unfortunately has only my message with
lots of questions in it right now. The hot area there seems to be asap.
Maybe you could get on and start a dialog with Larry regarding
artificial intelligence vs configurations. Thje problem I have with
configs, and I use artic, a program that depends on them, is that before
you can set up the proper configuration, you have to become thoroughly,
and I mean thoruoghly versed in the operation of the speech program and
the application for which you are trying to write a configuration. Now,
that's a tall order, if the darned program is giving you fits in the
first place. So, I hope you're wriong wrong and the artificial
intelligence approach works, becaue I se no way out for the average guy
who isn't really smat smart when it comes to this stuff or who doesn't
have any sighted help. The only other alternative is for programmers to
put out quite a supply of custom configs, and if they do that, then
what's the difference between that and a.ai? After all, what you want in
a config may not be what I want. Not trying to be argumentative, but it
seems to thme that the a.i. approach, assuming it's viable, is the best
way for the average guy. It's the blind person's equivlent to the gui or
a mouse or something.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1055.0!Mary.Otten
Internet: Mary.Otten@p0.f1055.n261.z1.fidonet.orgLloyd.Rasmussen@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Lloyd Rasmussen) (04/20/91)
Index Number: 15058
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willie:
I would encourage you to try GEnie. It still does not have as many
sighted users as Compu$erve has, but it's growing fast. Sometimes
it's growing so much that it runs pretty slow in the evenings. The
number of files in the disability area is quite small so far, but
disabilities was part of the non-profit connection conference until
last August, so it was rather hard to find. Between separating it
out in August, the beginning of Star*Services in October, and the
opening of a visually impaired discussion category in March,
business has really been building up. I suppose we're getting 15 or
20 messages a day, compared to BlinkTalk's 55 or 60. But some of
the traffic is going into private GE-mail messages, which removes a
lot of the clutter from the topics. But we have some good silly and
serious discussions over there.
My bill runs $15 to $30 a month. I spend a lot of that getting
news stories which match the keywords I have set. That will get
slightly cheaper when I move up from a 1200 to 2400 baud modem.
Several people, like W.Siren and J.Shaffer5 are using Aladdin, the
off-line reader. I do everything manually using Qmodem. Some
people complain about the banners and advertisements that come up
when you go into a new area and when youlog on. I would just as
soon have them, because you're not being charged for the time on
some of them, and if that's what it takes to keepthe subscription
fees down, then I'm all for it.
File downloading costs $6.00 per hour in most areas during
evenings and weekends, and uploads are free. Uploads don't get
posted until they have been screened by the sysop of the area they
were put in. The *Able conference is page 8011;10. Adaptive
technology is under category 7 of *Able, and visually impaired
discussion topics are category 9. One important thing that both
subscription services have going for them is that messages and E-
mail are delivered much faster than they possibly can be on Fidonet.
Much less stuff "crosses in the mail" that way. No, we've really
not been talking about you that much so far, but it might change.
Hope to see you there.
L.Rasmussen2
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Lloyd.Rasmussen
Internet: Lloyd.Rasmussen@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (04/20/91)
Index Number: 15064
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MO> not happy with what it does in the first place. I like the idea
MO> of taking the best possible educated guess, and then if it
MO> doesn't work. you try something different. I'm tired of getting
MO> programs and not even being able to figure out what ehey're
MO> they're doing, much less setting up acomplex cfg file for them.
Mary,
Yeah, I have a comment for you! You are one bright lady!
I too have been an advocate for speech programs doing as much
automatically as they can, and for precisely the reasons you stated!
Heck, there was a day when I used to download 8 or 9 programs a day just
to give them a quick look, and writing a speech configuration for each
not only would have taken more time than it deserved, it would probably
have been all for naught as it would be included in the del star dot
star I gave when I decided that the program wasn't worth the disk space,
as usually happened when I did a lot of downloading!
On the other hand, I am a little surprised that Doug and you are
discussing this as if ASAP is on one end of the spectrum and Vocal-Eyes
is on the other! In fact, this whole comparison of AI versus
configuration ability has me a bit stumped, as they are in my opinion
not at all mutually exclusive! I havn't looked at ASAP, primarily
because they don't have a demo (Not one of it's best selling points in
my mind!) and because I havn't run across anyone running it yet in my
travels, but I do know that all the things I want to be done
automatically are there in Vocal-Eyes, or at most but a key stroke away
in a very user friendly menu.
You mention in your message that ASAP has the ability to do much
too via configuration, or at least that is what I surmised, so I am
wondering exactly what is the difference in the approach of ASAP and
Vocal-Eyes except for which aspect of the program they decided to
concentrateon in their public image? That is, Vocal-Eyes definately, at
least in my mind, has more options available to the user than anything I
have ever seen! It does, however, in a much quieter fashion, do a lot
automatically. ASAP you say also has many configuration options
available, but they decided to push the automatic aspects instead.
In order for a program to really have "Artificial Intelligence",
it is going to have to not only read boxes automatically, and track
light bars automatically, it is going to have to know when I want to
read this bit of information from a particular program and when I don't,
when I want it to speed up and when I want it to slow down, when I want
it to spell out a word or tell me a particular characteristic of the
screen, etc., and all this without me having to touch a key! In fact,
while we're at it, I think an Artificially Intelligent speech program
should have the sense to speak Pittsburghese!
All I am really trying to say is that I don't buy the AI versus
Configurability controversy, as every speech program has some of each in
them, and I'm not even sure that one which has a lot of one can't have a
lot of the other, or vice versa. The only way I will ever believe that
billing a program as being either AI or highly configurable is more than
just a marketing approach I will let you know that as well! <grin>
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWalter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren) (04/20/91)
Index Number: 15066
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MO> is for programmers to put out quite a supply of custom configs, and if they
MO> do that, then what's the difference between that and a.ai? After all, what
MO> you want in a config may not be what I want.
Mary, exactly what I am worried about. It seems to me that asap
might be a way to get configs preconfigured, just like vocal eyes,
and jaws already do. Like you said that it may not be what I want,
but I can change it. What about when the programmer programs it
into his speech program, and it is not what I want, then what. I
wonder if the programs like vocal eyes, and jaws might be more
flexible in the long run. I didn't comment on artic, because I
have never used it, and therefore I am not familiar with it.
Asap will not come to a convention, and he will not put out a demo,
so how can we find out without buying it? I know that he gives a
30 day money back guarrantee, but I would rather know what I am
getting first.
Walter
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgWalter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren) (04/20/91)
Index Number: 15067
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MO> I suppose you may have read my msg to doug i encouraging him to get over on
MO> Genie. I was interested in your reply which stated that you agree with his
MO> position on artificial intelligence vs configuration type programs. I'm a
MO> user of a cfg type, but am leaning more to Larry's position the more I read
MO> on Genie. I'd like to hear from you proponents of configuration type
MO> programs why you think they're better, so long as the a.i. type program
MO> lets you mess with the settings, that is, configure, if you're not happy
Mary the main reason I say that at this time, because I have not
seen Lary's asap, and I guess that I am scheptical of how it can
work. If he would put out a demo, or come to the convention, and
show it off, so I could see how it really works, maybe he would
convince me. I know about his money back guarrantee, but I don't
like putting my money out for something I don't know the way it
really works. Maybe if he ecver puts out demos, and supports the
accent synthesizer, I then might give him some consideration.
From what he says about you having to use settings, that sounds
like configurations to me. If that is what he is doing,
preconfigring everything, then there is not difference between his
and the others. When new programs come in, will it still work
automatically?
MO> By the way, Walter, where will you be stat staying at
MO> Tampa, and will you have your 2-meter rig? I'll be at the Omni and have my
MO> HT with me.
I will be at the Holiday inn, and we will have our two meter rigs
with us. Most of us will probably be on '5.55' that's where most
of us have become to hang out.
Did you make your reservations too late for the holiday inn, or did
you choose the omni.
Walter
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org