Verna.Forristal@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Verna Forristal) (05/24/91)
Index Number: 15781
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
AS> > many orientals speak quite readable English by my standards
AS> > (except for Filipinos and Indians, who are almost as
AS> > difficult for me to read as the Brits).
AS>
AS> Geronimo is just 5 miles south of here?) I come in contact
AS> with many from all parts of the world but still have more problems
AS> reading/understanding those from VietNam, Cambodia, Phillipines
AS> and such more than any others. I don't have a difficult time
This is not unique to lipreading. Being a hearie, I also have problems with
understanding the Asian Indians and Vietnamese, etc. I think the problem
comes in the peculiar way they warp the English language (this is not intended
as a put down). An Indian friend of mine substitutes P for F so she eats pood
rather than food, etc. It took me several weeks to get more than "26%" of
what she was talking about. The funny thing about it is that she has been in
the US for 12 years, but doesn't seem to have any interest in learning to
speak more clearly (form the sounds correctly) even though she gets rather
frustrated when others don't understand what she is saying. It seems to me
that it would be much easier to read someone who spoke their native tongue
clearly (assuming you know that native tongue) than to attempt to read
someone who is speaking a language which is foreign to them, and they can't
correctly pronounce. Just a thought.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!71!Verna.Forristal
Internet: Verna.Forristal@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15829
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
I think part of the problem with your friend who eats "pood" rather
than food is not her disinterest in learning to speak clearly as you
and I might define it. I think it is due to how her ears "hear" English.
One's ears become trained to hear certain sounds. So much so that sometimes
we swear a person said something they swear they did not say. I once
got a whipping for saying a nasty word I know I did not say, but an
adult who "heard" me swears I did say. I was whipped as much having
"spite" the adult's word as for having allegingly said the no no.
You take a person from Brooklyn, Los Angeles or wherever. They are
used to hearing English spoken a certain way. You transplant them and
they will speak their particular brand of English for years and years
no matter how often you correct them. Often it may take them decades
before they unlearn certain pronounciation-and good Lord, these are
Americans! Now imagine a foreigner's situtation! Unlearning what the
ear has been trained by experience to hear is not so much a matter
of wanting to learn to speak "properly' as it is the brains manner
on processing aural information in an insisted manner (read trained
or habitual). I wish I had time to ge further into this but I don't
at this time. We can continue with it in future posts if you like.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgVerna.Forristal@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Verna Forristal) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15840
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
JW> You take a person from Brooklyn, Los Angeles or wherever. They are used
JW> to hearing English spoken a certain way. You transplant them and they
JW> will speak their particular brand of English for years and years no
JW> matter how often you correct them. Often it may take them decades before
JW> they unlearn certain pronounciation-and good Lord, these are Americans!
You're probably right. I have never had a problem re-producing sounds. I can
put the proper inflection into just about any accent or language (except ASL).
I can speek "Brooklynese" and "Southernist" with the best of them, and put all
the right rolls and trills in Spanish and do the lip acrobatics of French
without difficulty. I would NOT be able to produce the clicking sounds found
in some of the African tribal languages. I guess I just assumed that since I
can speak other people's languages without difficulty, they should also be
able to speak my language. I think also, that I decided that if I can teach a
deaf child to make the F sound, a hearing Indian should be able to do it as
well, but maybe I should try learning Hindi before I get judgemental! Anyway,
the principal point that foreigners are also difficult for hearies to
understand at times still stands, whatever the reason.
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