Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (05/03/91)
Index Number: 15335
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
General Announcement to all Deaf people and supportors...
(If you are against ASL then please BE QUIET!)
PLEASE!!!! We need your help!!!
There is currently a GRAVE injustice being committed aganist the
Deaf Children in Virginia Beach, VA. So serious it cannot be
ignored.. Our future is IN JEOPARDY! (We are being SCREWED!)
Who by? The HEARIES that THINK they know what the best is
for deaf children! they have openly stated that Deaf people don't
know what is best for deaf people. So they need to decide what
is best for them. And what they think is best is focus on speech,
lipreading and English so that Deaf children can cope in a hearing
world. HUH?!
So I suppose that all the white people think that THEY know
what is best for the black people... that is, if you follow this
line of thought. Would they get away with it? NO! They would
make such a big fuss if the white people even tried to do that...
SO, WHY THE HELL ARE WE LETTING THEM?!
Now, this is a VERY serious case. Currently, the
interpreters in the Virginia Beach Public Schools are INCOMPETENT!
They come directly from the "streets"! This is NOT an
exaggeration! They never associate with the Deaf community, nor do
they know even what ASL is! Don't know what the Deaf culture is...
when they are told about it, they do NOT believe there is such a
thing! In layman's terms, they STINK!
Now, a professional interpreter who is certified by the RID
recently met with the administrative head of Special Education
Department to bring up a proposal concerning the
Bi-lingual/bicultural aspects of educating the Deaf. She was met
with such disbelief. They are NOT interested in the Deaf
children's behalf. All they want is to meet the minimal
requirement that PL 94-142 which demands Equal Education
Opportunnity with the least restrictive environment. BUT they DO
NOT! In fact, they are breaking the law! Deaf children, when they
graduate, they come out of high school empty handed. Devoid of a
language of their own. No mastery of English. No mastery of ASL.
NOTHING!
Yet, they ignore the fact. They are more interested in
FORCING the Deaf child to be a hearing personm which is the MOST
restrictive environment imaginable!
We want to do something.. NO, we MUST do something to stop
this crime! Deaf people KNOW what is best for the deaf people!
BUT we MUST be heard!
PLEASE HELP!
We CANNOT do it alone! ANY support, suggestions, etc would
be GREATLY appreciated! Remember your brothers and sisters!
REMEMBER GALLAUDET! DEAF PRESIDENT NOW!
We CAN be heard, and we CAN WIN! Stop these people from
ruining the Deaf children of America! Maybe we cannot save the
country right now, BUT we can start in Virginia Beach, VA!
Help us!
Tim Smith
&
Annette Bene
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (05/03/91)
Index Number: 15336
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Tim:
Have you seen the paper from Gertie Galloway (NAD - National Commission
on Equal Educational Opportunities for Deaf Children) dated 12/17/90?
Gertie proposes new legislation insuring a ten-point educational
program for deaf children that addresses many of the same concerns
you expressed. They are working on a "Deaf Child's Educational Bill
of Rights" which could be either an amendment to the Education of the
Deaf Act (20 U.S.C. 4301 et. seq.) or introduced as separately.
This is a well-reasoned position paper, quite unlike NAD's other one
that has been much discussed here. If you are really interested in
doing something constructive about deaf education, you should get in
touch with:
Ms. Gertie Galloway, Chair
NAD - National Commission on Equal Educational
Opportunities for Deaf Children.
Maryland School for the Deaf
P.O.Box 894 - Columbia, MD 21044
TS> Deaf children, when they graduate, they come out of high school
TS> empty handed. Devoid of a language of their own. No mastery
TS> of English. No mastery of ASL. NOTHING!
Sad to say, many hearie children come out of high school in much the
same condition :-)
BTW. Congratulations on your acceptance at Gallaudet. Just be careful
and watch out for the DOSS. We'd not like to have another Carl Dupree
episode.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWayne.Roorda@f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Roorda) (05/03/91)
Index Number: 15343 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Hi Tim, I'm responding to your message which you addressed to ALL... > General Announcement to all Deaf people and supportors... And I note, from another posting, that you have been accepted to attend Gallaudet University this fall. I for one, have hopes that you will be able to receive an education while there. But, if continue in the vein of thought as you have posted with your drivel regarding the problems in the school in Virginia Beach, I'm afraid you will never get the education that you need. You said... > (If you are against ASL then please BE QUIET!) Substitute "French" for "ASL" in the above statement and please explain what are you trying to say or ask of the SilentTalk readers? > There is currently a GRAVE injustice being committed aganist the > Deaf Children in Virginia Beach, VA.... Now, substitute "Minority" for "Deaf" in the above and please explain what you are trying to say? > ... (We are being SCREWED!) Are you? Where is your supporting statement(s), for such a generalization? > Who by? The HEARIES that THINK they know what the best is > for deaf children! Who are these "HEARIES"? This is a Deaf slang term used to refer to people who hear. Please name names and explain further. > ... they have openly stated that Deaf people don't > know what is best for deaf people. Where was this stated? Is there a published source for the above statement? I'd like to read it. > ... So they need to decide what is best for them. Who are these "they" and "them" you are referring to? > ...... text deleted > Now, this is a VERY serious case. Currently, the > interpreters in the Virginia Beach Public Schools are INCOMPETENT! > They come directly from the "streets"! This is NOT an.... Uh Tim, you've lost me. By whose measurement are these interpreters "INCOMPETENT"? And where are these "streets" that they are from? How is this related to your thesis? > .... text deleted > Now, a professional interpreter who is certified by the RID > recently met with the administrative head of Special Education > Department to bring up a proposal concerning the > Bi-lingual/bicultural aspects of educating the Deaf. She was met > with such disbelief. They are NOT interested in the Deaf > children's behalf. All they want is to meet the minimal .... If you are really interested asking for help, you would have named names and provided us with TDD numbers to call and addresses to write to verify that the above situation is as you've described it. > ..... text deleted > NOT! In fact, they are breaking the law! Deaf children, when they... Well if "they are breaking the law" why hasn't the Virginia Department of Education filed charges against those who are responsible? Have you written to them stating your concerns? > ..... text deleted > We want to do something.. NO, we MUST do something to stop > this crime! Deaf people KNOW what is best for the deaf people! > BUT we MUST be heard! You may want to do something, but you will accomplish nothing without supporting statments of facts and wittnesses affirming the allegations which you have made. I recognize that the world is imperfect. It can be made better IF we all work together to improve it. Wayne ... Accomplishments have no color. -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14!Wayne.Roorda Internet: Wayne.Roorda@f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org
Ann.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Parsons) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15390
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Tim,
The problem you site interests me greatly. I have some concrete suggestions.
First of all, teachers of the deaf must be certified to teach. Who granted
these people certification? Could the Virginia State Department of Education
be at fault here? Secondly, I know that interpreters have their own
organization which offers certification. Are these people certified by that
organization?
Now I know that pieces of paper do not a teacher make. But this is probablly
the place to start.
Secondly, who makes policy for curriculum for the children who are deaf in
Virginia Beach? See what they say?
Thirdly, if you really think you have a case, take it to EEOC, (Equal
Opportunities Commission.
Fourthly, you spoke of The college in Washington. Can they intervene, if
there has been a miscarriage of educational opportunities for these kids?
What about having a speaker or two come to an In-Service for these teachers?
Fifth, try honey first, tell them how much they know and how much you
appreciate what they've done and then say, "Have you heard about this? This
is what's happening in Ny and Pa and at RIT/NTID, etc, etc, etc. This is
exciting to me. Could you try this?"
If you hit them with vinegar they'll only resist.
Well, there's my two cents worth. <smile> Anything I can do by getting
curriculum guides from BOCES here in NY, or something like that let me know.
Ann P.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!207!Ann.Parsons
Internet: Ann.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (05/07/91)
Index Number: 15423
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
True, Jack.. BUT a Hearing person who didn't get anything out of High
school has more opportunites than a Deaf person. They have a wider
choice of jobs.
Ever seen a Deaf person be a cashier at McDonald's?
No, I haven't seen that article you told me about.. Sounds very
interesting.. I'll contact my collague and come back to you.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (05/07/91)
Index Number: 15426
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Ann, your advice to Tim is about the best that is available. Interesting
is that certain Alexander Graham Bellisms persist in rising their heads
yet again. A lot of what Tim describes fits earlier approaches to Deaf
Education that does the child much harm and little good. If Tim's account
is a certainty, it will be just one more of many similar accounts that
are popping up here and there in this presumed-to-be aged of enlightenment
regarding the education of Deaf children.
Oh well, nobody said the battle was going to be easy. I like your suggested
approach to trying to address the problem. A lot the things that Tim
describes is based on ignorance. Just lack of understanding about what
is actually being done. Educating the educators may well be the sole
way of removing this ignorance.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (05/07/91)
Index Number: 15429
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
TS> Ever seen a Deaf person be a cashier at McDonald's?
No, Tim, as far as I know I have not.
But I have seen persons who happen to be deaf succeed in a number
of "non-traditional" careers. Successful engineers and scientists,
editors and authors, artists and actors, educators and administrators,
even musicians and composers! Careers that could be considered even
more challenging than cashiering at McD's.
Deaf people can do anything but hear.
Granted that there are serious deficiencies in our educational
systems - but they exist for hearing as well as deaf children.
I'm not persuaded that qualifying persons to be cashiers at McD's
is a fully adequate educational objective - deaf or hearing.
Good luck on your relocation. Keep in touch.
... Jack.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Parsons) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15585
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi James,
Thank you for your good words. It is interesting to note that when I mentioned
the conversation to a colleague of mine who is a teacher of the Deaf here in
BOCES, her reply to my question about what kind of signing they are using is
as follows: She said that at BOCES they use mostly Pidgeon Sign for the kids.
This is because many of them are multiply handicapped as well as being deaf.
She also said that she had noticed that many of her students were using
modified ASL in their conversations. She went on to say that she felt that she
could never be fluent in ASL as are those who are born deaf. "You have to be
born deaf of deaf parents." She said that she was well aware of the
contraversy, and she was most interested in my questions about the subject.
As for your comments about ignorance, yea, that's why I continue to speak to
school groups about blindness. People need to be educated not hit over the
head because they are ignorant. If you hit them over the head, then you have
to heal the concussion. <grin>
Take care, see ya on-line. Question? Why don't the folks in the Deaf Community
become teachers of children who are deaf? Then, you could really speak from
experience. Don't beat 'em join 'em. I'm doing that and I love it. <grin>
Ann P.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!207!Ann.Parsons
Internet: Ann.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15591
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
> Ever seen a Deaf person be a cashier at McDonald's?
Yes, I have seen a young deaf woman cashiering for McDonald's
here in Lawton. She worked part-time for them while attending
the local university for several years. She signs mostly
but is very good at speechreading and can speak pretty well.
She also has a hearing dog that put her in the limelight at
the university.
Tim, deaf people can do anything they want to do except hear.
I admire those who don't try to limit themselves and go on to
reach their potential without letting others hold them back.
We are people first, not deaf first and I don't feel we need
"identity" to show we are deaf. That's the wrong way to go
about this. Perhaps you will understand more in time and
even though you are attending Gallaudet this fall, don't
center your whole life around your deafness. There's far
more out in the world for all of us.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!385!14.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f14.n385.z1.fidonet.orgJessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Ostrow) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15595
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
* In a message originally to James Womack, Ann Parsons typed:
AP> Take care, see ya on-line. Question? Why don't the folks in
AP> the Deaf Community
AP> become teachers of children who are deaf? Then, you could
AP> really speak from
AP> experience. Don't beat 'em join 'em. I'm doing that and I
AP> love it. <grin>
Ann:
I'm deaf and my goal is to teach deaf children...there are also a few others
at Gallaudet University who are in the deaf ed programs...one problem,
though, is that you need an M.A. degree to teach deaf, there are no
undergraduate programs. My thought is, why should people be able to teach
hearing kids with an undergraduate degree, but have to get a masters to
teach deaf?? (Or am I wrong and you DO need a masters to teach hearing??) No
big deal about this, except there is a discrepancy here...
Jess
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!337!Jessica.Ostrow
Internet: Jessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.orgFran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15603
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Jess,
JO> programs...one problem, though, is that you need an M.A. degree to
JO> teach deaf, there are no undergraduate programs. My thought is,
JO> why should people be able to teach hearing kids with an
JO> undergraduate degree, but have to get a masters to teach deaf??
JO> (Or am I wrong and you DO need a masters to teach hearing??) No
JO> big deal about this, except there is a discrepancy here...
No, everybody in education winds up having to get the old masters
except the "old timers" who were "grandfathered" out of that
requirement (the requirement didn't exist when they started so
aren't held to the new rules). Speech therapists, everybody
EXCEPT physical therapists (not sure about the Occupational ones
--they're so similar).
You might get the job with a BA or BS but to get permanently
certified you have to get the M.A. That's true for all of us
whether teaching the hearing, deaf, or anybody else.
When you consider the pay, it sometimes doesn't seem fair (and
with elementary, you wonder how necessary) but that's what just
about all the states require for permanent certification. I was a
public librarian (and not a school one) already had my masters in
library science, but when I entered education (and the only way my
district was allowed to hire me, as uncertified, was to show the
state they had attempted but failed, to find a certified person)
then I had to get certified, my credits had to be evaluated by
Albany and further credits would be required if my curriculum was
not up to snuff. Luckily I took many electives in education and
education related areas (such as psychology) and so I only had to
take one more course. My two years of work under the observation
of the principal counted as my student teaching and my 3rd year
clinched it, so now I'm fully and permanently certified in NY and
my district granted me tenure.
Only thing now, is that my district is contemplating a merger
(with a larger one) which (if they do) would close down the high
school and then all us teachers will be out of jobs, and they're
laying off teachers right and left in all the other districts, so
all these lovely credentials won't do me much good if that
happens, unfortunately.
I know one science major who already got her masters and all, and
still couldn't find a job and has just been substitute teaching
while searching. It is not a good time for education here in NY
I'm afraid, hope it's better in the other states.
--Fran
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.orgPeter.Deafy.Haskins@f37.n342.z1.fidonet.org (Peter "Deafy" Haskins) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15604
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
> TS> Ever seen a Deaf person be a cashier at McDonald's?
No not over In Canada as Far as I know of unless I am all
wrong!
However, In other Words, I do know many Deafies working at
McDonalds as Janitors or as Cook assistants.
Regards,
Peter "Deafy" Haskins
Deafy's First BBS
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!342!37!Peter."Deafy".Haskins
Internet: Peter."Deafy".Haskins@f37.n342.z1.fidonet.orgAnn.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Parsons) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15606
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Jess,
AP>> Question? Why don't the folks in
AP>> the Deaf Community
AP>> become teachers of children who are deaf? Then, you could
AP>> really speak from
AP>> experience. Don't beat 'em join 'em. I'm doing that and I
AP>> love it. <grin>
JO> Ann:
JO> I'm deaf and my goal is to teach deaf children...there are also
JO> a few others at Gallaudet University who are in the deaf ed
JO> programs...one problem, though, is that you need an M.A. degree
JO> to teach deaf, there are no undergraduate programs. My thought
JO> is, why should people be able to teach hearing kids with an
JO> undergraduate degree, but have to get a masters to teach deaf??
JO> (Or am I wrong and you DO need a masters to teach hearing??) No
JO> big deal about this, except there is a discrepancy here...
Well, Jess, it is true that one can teach hearing kids without a Masters
degree. This is in K-12. Though, it is becoming more frequent for teachers
with Masters Degrees to teach the hearing. They get paid better. Many teachers
start teaching while they are still in grad school. In New York State, you
need a Masters Degree to get a permanent certificate to teach.
So, no, there is no discrepency here, except that programs in Special
Education tend to be graduate programs. I guess they figure that you've got to
know how to teach "normal" kids before you can teach "special" kids.
One of the things that really made me laugh was a course I had to take in grad
school. It was called The Psychology of Blindness. The whole burden of the
course was that blind people thought differently than do sighted people.
<grin> I can just imagine the rot they try to palm off on teachers of The
Deaf. <grin>
See you on-line.
Ann P.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!207!Ann.Parsons
Internet: Ann.Parsons@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.orgbac@lcuxa.uucp (Barbara Charles) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15705
TS> = Tim Smith
WR> = Wayne Roorda
TS>General Announcement to all Deaf people and supportors...
WR>And I note, from another posting, that you have been accepted to attend
WR>Gallaudet University this fall.
WR>I for one, have hopes that you will be able to receive an education while
WR>there. But, if continue in the vein of thought as you have posted with
WR>your drivel regarding the problems in the school in Virginia Beach, I'm
WR>afraid you will never get the education that you need.
WR>You said...
TS>(If you are against ASL then please BE QUIET!)
WR>Substitute "French" for "ASL" in the above statement and please explain
WR>what are you trying to say or ask of the SilentTalk readers?
It was very clear to me. Those who do not support ASL, and there are many
should please refrain from the discussion/conversation!!!!!
TS>There is currently a GRAVE injustice being committed aganist the
TS>Deaf Children in Virginia Beach, VA....
WR>Now, substitute "Minority" for "Deaf" in the above and please explain
WR>what you are trying to say?
As a minority, myself, I can understand this, but it has nothing to do
with the issue. You brought up other issues. Please read what this person
had to say.
TS>... (We are being SCREWED!)
WR>Are you? Where is your supporting statement(s), for such a generalization?
TS>Who by? The HEARIES that THINK they know what the best is
TS>for deaf children!
WR>Who are these "HEARIES"? This is a Deaf slang term used to refer to
WR>people who hear. Please name names and explain further.
Hearies are people who can hear. "WE are being screwed" are deaf people.
TS>... they have openly stated that Deaf people don't
TS>know what is best for deaf people.
WR>Where was this stated? Is there a published source for the above
WR>statement? I'd like to read it.
This is the only thing good you had to say. It would be of interest to see
where, in what and who stated the above. But, take it easy...
TS>... So they need to decide what is best for them.
Who are these "they" and "them" you are referring to?
Again, "They and Them" are hearies!
TS>...... text deleted
TS> Now, this is a VERY serious case. Currently, the
TS>interpreters in the Virginia Beach Public Schools are INCOMPETENT!
TS>They come directly from the "streets"! This is NOT an....
WR>Uh Tim, you've lost me. By whose measurement are these interpreters
WR>"INCOMPETENT"? And where are these "streets" that they are from?
WR>How is this related to your thesis?
Deaf people measure the incompetence or competence of interpreters. I
would think that is clear, as they are the one receiving the service,
and they are the client. An interpreter should be giving an available
service to a Deaf person in order to facilitate communication between
two groups of people - hearing and Deaf. If you had a lousy doctor and all
the doctors in your area were lousy, you could make a statement, saying
that they are incompetent. Unfortunately, interpreters to Deaf client
ratio is ridiculous, meaning there are many, many more Deaf people than,
we, as interpreters, can service. In NJ, there are some @ 100,000 Deaf
people to some 30 interpreters and we are very lucky if out of those 30
or so, 10 are certified by RID (Registry for Interpreters for the Deaf.)
Others includes people who had Deaf parents or people like myself, who
attend Interpreter Programs wherever we can.
Do you know anything about this organization? Do you know what
certification is? The "streets" Tim refers to means just that.
People who learned sign after taking maybe a 6-8 week sign
course. Or maybe they learned it from their friends and now think
they can interpret. Let me tell you something, I have been in a
Interpreter program for 3 years now in NJ at Union County College and
I have been frustrated beyond belief in trying to learn the language (ASL).
It is not an overnight job. It takes years, and years, and years of
practice, patience and experience to use ASL well and it takes longer
to be a good interpreter. Interpreters off the "Streets" are not
certified, don't have the education, don't follow the Code of Ethics
(ensuring such things as confidentiality of the client) set by RID
among many other infractions. Interpreters off the "streets" ARE usually
incompetent. I don't thing NJ is as bad as Virginia Beach, but ...
After 3 years I am still a "baby interpreter." I am just staring
my internship after 3 years which involves 125 hours of interpreting before
I can actually call myself an interpreter.
Interpreters off the "streets" can see a quick way to make money at the
expense of the Deaf client who is not getting the information they need
correctly or clearly in a language that they understand (either
English or ASL - we are trained in this an others, including Oral and
Minimal Language Skills,etc). Suppose you get a client who is in a doctor's
office, who is being told that they have cancer and the interpreter needs to
relay the doctor's information to them - suppose the interpreter breaks down
and starts to cry, suppose the interpreter does not know the vocabulary
to explain the medical and hospital procedures that the client will have to
go through for his/her therapy? Suppose the person's receptive skills
are not good and they don't understand what the Deaf person is signing and
suppose that Deaf person, with cancer, starts asking questions about
his/her condition that the interpreter cannot explain to the doctor.
Suppose a child in high school gets an interpreter who has only a basic
knowledge of signs and is interpreting a a chemistry class, algebra class,
history, geology, the list can go on and on. Those are interpreters "off the
street."
TS>.... text deleted
TS> Now, a professional interpreter who is certified by the RID
TS>recently met with the administrative head of Special Education
TS>Department to bring up a proposal concerning the
TS>Bi-lingual/bicultural aspects of educating the Deaf. She was met
TS>with such disbelief. They are NOT interested in the Deaf
TS>children's behalf. All they want is to meet the minimal ....
WR>If you are really interested asking for help, you would have named names
WR>and provided us with TDD numbers to call and addresses to write to verify
WR>that the above situation is as you've described it.
Not true. The Deaf community, and it is a community, is a close-knit
community. Why should he mention names, when he may have to use one
of those interpreters at some point in time, because there is no one
else available or better interpreters available. Believe me when I
say, if YOU, who criticize so greatly, were involved in the Deaf
community at all, you would not ask these questions. You would understand.
I hope I have explained some of it to you.
Interpreters who really support the community are involved in the community
and I mean 'REALLY' involved. We are at the Deaf clubs, workshops to
improve skills and at every Deaf function out there to enhance our skills
and the language.
TS>..... text deleted
TS>NOT! In fact, they are breaking the law! Deaf children, when they...
WR>Well if "they are breaking the law" why hasn't the Virginia Department
WR>of Education filed charges against those who are responsible? Have you
WR>written to them stating your concerns?
I'm sure the Ed Dept. know. As Tim stated, they are getting by on the
minimal requirements of the law. Many businesses do this for whatever
reasons, usually money. You need more than one person to write a letter.
TS>..... text deleted
TS> We want to do something.. NO, we MUST do something to stop
TS>this crime! Deaf people KNOW what is best for the deaf people!
TS>BUT we MUST be heard!
WR>You may want to do something, but you will accomplish nothing without
WR>supporting statments of facts and wittnesses affirming the allegations
WR>which you have made.
The witnesses can be brought forth later, if this particular issue is
brought forth and something is done about it. I would not publically
name people when I may have to rely on what available services there
are.
In NJ, if a interpreter is bad, his name gets passed around fairly quickly
in the Deaf community and eventually that interpreter would not get alot
of work. Deaf people are staring to stand up for their rights to
equal access into buildings, seminars, etc. It has nothing to do with
physically walking into the building, but equal access to all the
facilities, hearing people have because we hear. We take our hearing
for granted. Again the doctor analogy. If there were 2 doctors in
your small community and both doctors were terrible doctors, but you
still had to use them, would you openly name them in a public forum -
if there is no one else available to you if you get sick?
WR>I recognize that the world is imperfect. It can be made better IF we
WR>all work together to improve it.
>Wayne
Nice words Wayne. But from you response, you would need to start with
yourself first before criticizing others. We came across soooooo strong
on something you obviously knew nothing about. I would change your quote
above - It can be made better IF WE LEARN TO LISTEN FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS
SECOND, CRITICIZE LESS, SPEAK GENTLY TO OBTAIN INFO and all work together
to improve it!!!!
Peace,
Barbara CharlesDennis.McClain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Dennis McClain-Furmanski ) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15708
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Jess. No, you don't need a master's to teach the hearing, although they
expect you to be working on one constantly. You're right, there's a
discrepency. Even if it were considered as a foreign language compared to
english, you don't need a master's to teach bilingual classes. The difference
may be because they consider teaching deaf children sign to still be more akin
to therapy for handicapped. Is this the law for Virginia, or more places than
that?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!42!Dennis.McClain-Furmanski.
Internet: Dennis.McClain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.orgJessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Ostrow) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15712
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
DM> to therapy for handicapped. Is this the law for Virginia, or
DM> more places than that?
No, not so much the "law", but when I called at least one place, asking what
the requirements were for teachers of the deaf, they said they required an
M.A. for them, however, they sometimes would hire someone who only had a
bachelor's degree for the MHHI kids...go figger...
Jess
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!337!Jessica.Ostrow
Internet: Jessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.orgJessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Ostrow) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15713
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
AP> So, no, there is no discrepency here, except that programs
AP> in Special
AP> Education tend to be graduate programs. I guess they figure
AP> that you've got to
AP> know how to teach "normal" kids before you can teach
AP> "special" kids.
Well, when you're talking about deaf teachers, then there IS a discrepancy!
"Normal" kids for us deafies, are OTHER deaf kids! <grin> Hearing kids then
become "special" kids cuz then some of us would need interpreters and such.
I do lipread fairly well, but I cannot lipread all children, and certainly
NOT everything they say...
Ohvell, we'll see what happens...
Jess
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!337!Jessica.Ostrow
Internet: Jessica.Ostrow@f337.n109.z1.fidonet.orgPeter.Deafy.Haskins@f37.n342.z1.fidonet.org (Peter "Deafy" Haskins) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15849 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] > P"> I do know many Deafies working at McDonalds > > McDonalds seems to have been pretty enlightened in > their hiring > policys here. Now if we could just convince them to > do something > about that drive-thru window ordering . . . > > Nice to hear from you, Peter. Keep posting. > > ... Jack. Great hope to see alot of feedback over there and here. Ha ha it will create alot of problems if we arrange 1000 cars with deaf drivers going to place an order via the speaker at the drive-thru window .. I guaranteed that these employees would hang up their aprons and tell their boss that they quitted on account of so many deafies .eh? Regards, Peter "Deafy" Haskins Deafy's First BBS -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!342!37!Peter."Deafy".Haskins Internet: Peter."Deafy".Haskins@f37.n342.z1.fidonet.org
James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15961
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
MacDonalds hires deafies, yes but it depends on the franchise I have
seen some of them hires deafies here. Yet across town another one tells
a deaf person, "Sorry, can't hire you during after school hours." This
despite the fact that it is the only time thos ehigh schoolers back
behind the counter work. Then the next day they hire a hearie kid to
work during after school hours. It depends on which MacDonalds.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org