Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (03/12/91)
Index Number: 13885
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Bull... being deaf is NOT a communcation disorder.
THAT is precisely what the hearing world which view us through the
pathological point of view want us to think.
Calling the deaf "People with communncation disorder" is about the
equlivent to calling a non english speaking Spanish man the same.
They simply know a different language.
WE do not have a communcation disorder. Rather anyone that does not
know sign language that happens to encounter a group of deaf people,
THOSE are the ones with the communncaton disorder- if we follow what you
said.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.orgStEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (StEpHeN wHiTe) (03/21/91)
Index Number: 14090
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
TS> WE do not have a communcation disorder.
TS> Rather anyone that does not know sign language that happens to
TS> encounter a group of deaf people, THOSE are the ones with the
TS> communncaton disorder
Uhu - do you notice the logical error?
If you say that people who do not know sign language have a
communications disorder in a group of deaf peoplem, then it
naturally follows that someone that does not know English has a
communications disorder in a group of hearing people.
The simple truth is that the term "communications disorder" is
relative, like so much else.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3!681!853.1!StEpHeN.wHiTe
Internet: StEpHeN.wHiTe@p1.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.orgVixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15707
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi,
I have been reading and following the debate concerning the matters
of mainstreaming and residential schools or "separate classes."
The one fact of matters that seems to come shining through, at
least to me, and irregardless from which position of debate, is
that depending on all of the variables, different things work for
different people.
For the one, mainstreaming was successful and worked out quite well
and for the other, a residential school was the more successful.
If it is a given that the residential school is a good school with
some good teachers and the mainstream school is likewise, then
is'nt how successful the one will be over the other dependant on
the individual child and not on some theorem over which method of
instruction is the superior? Is is not more a matter of where the
child feels that he or she "better" fits in and is comfortable? How
well will a child learn in an environment where he or she does not
feel comfortable, somehow negatively different rather, or just does
not feel good about him or herself?
Maybe one child will feel better in a residential school and more a
part of things and "one of the gang!" Then again, might not another
child feel better in a mainstream school and find that being with
all kinds of children, is what makes him or her feel better about
themselves and also just "one of the gang?"
It is hard for me to imagine that either direction should be an
absolute.
Although I am deafened later in life and therefor did not attend a
residential school for the deaf, and might be challenged with,
"what do I know?", I will answer without a long story of
explanation, that for a time in my life, I was removed from
mainstream schooling and put into special classes. What I know, is
how "I" felt as a child being in those classes and my adult
memories of that time.
There is or was, a lot of duality of feeling. On the one hand, when
I was no longer able to keep up with and cope with mainstream
schooling and I was put into "special classes", there was a feeling
of relief, of being where I thought others were like me and would
understand and where my instructors would consider my special
needs. I did not feel so much "less" than my classmates as I did
in the mainstream. I felt I could learn because in this new place,
I could cope!
On the other hand, because my special classes were located within a
mainstream school system and building, it seemed like every
mainstream student knew who was in "special classes" and felt that
they had license to ridicule special class students. To be in
"special classes" within the mainstream system, was to be taunted,
teased, made fun of and looked down upon. As we often hear said,
"Children can be quite creul." Disability is often cause for
laughter to many people, both children and adult. This negative was
very very hard to take. It often overshadowed what positive
feelings or hope one might feel by being in special classes.
This I will say, I personally would have rather have been in a
Special School then in those special classes within the mainstream
system. I was also greatly relieved to eventually make it back into
the mainstream system. Then again, there were those much less
negatively affected by being in those special classes than I! It
seems to me that so much of this must be taken on a case by case
basis. What will work for some, may not at all work for everyone,
no matter how great the philosophy.
Perhaps residential schools (for the deaf) offer some things that
special class and mainstream class do not offer the deaf child. For
example, little teaching about successful, talented or historical
persons who are well acheived and noted and deaf. Then again, how
little the school system teachers of noted people who are or were
blind, had CP, black, and the list could on. I think this is a
valid point. Then again, how much time and effort do we put into
educating ourselves in these matters? It is a question.
I suspect that if a child can understand the matter of choice
between mainstream education and alterantives, maybe the individual
child should be given the opportunity of decision? Again, is it not
so that the one child will thrive in the mainstream and the other
in an alterantive environment?
Perhaps the issue here is not that all deaf children should be in
residential schools or even day schools for the deaf, or should all
deaf children be mainstreamed, rather that education, all around,
should be improved, quality and of the greatest value whether it is
found in a residential school or a mainstream school. (And was'nt
that a long sentence?)
Oh well, let someone else figure it out, it is much too confusing
for me! HeheH!
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen
Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15709
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Vixen,
I'm happy for you and all your good news. The new Ultratec unit,
the large display, and the college arrangement with Dee Follette.
Congratulations. BTW, I understand that the funding for the
California Deaf and Disabled Telecommunications Program is up
for renewal in your legislature. Maybe you should write your
State Senator and/or Assemblyperson and tell them how important
this is. Ask them to support AB 1430 (Moore).
V> I have been reading and following the debate concerning the
V> matters of mainstreaming and residential schools or "separate
V> classes." The one fact of matters that seems to come shining
V> through, at least to me, and irregardless from which position
V> of debate, is that depending on all of the variables, different
V> things work for different people.
You are so right there, Vixen! It's different strokes for different
folks, and tragic that more do not recognize that fact. We have
ample evidence that what works fantasticalIy well for one may not
work at all for another. I deplore the "one-size-fits-all" mentality
that is evidenced by a few of the more prolific posters in ST.
The real problem is, where do hearing parents of a deaf child turn
for advice. Most everyone professionally involved in deaf education
seems to feel that their way is the ONLY way to go. Why someone
here was even complaining about the need to make individual education
plans for each of the deaf students. Arghhhhh. . .
... Jack.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgVixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15963
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi,
Well, I guess that quality eduucation is quality education whether
it comes from a Mainstream or Residential school and poor education
is poor education whether it comes from a Residential school or
Mainstream school.
What I do not truly understand about this "versus type" debate is
the factional denial that there are no absolutes here. Right here,
among even our little group there are those of us who have done
well or poorly in each offered environment.
It rather reminds me of those who argue religion, each has the best
and one and only church not realizing that it is Christ that is the
absolute and not the church or religion. Here the child is the
absolute in each case, not the methodology.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen
Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgVixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15964
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Hi Jack,
Yes, my new Ultratec with the large external display is much much
easier to use wearing hyperoptic lenses or near distance telescopes
than my Krown was since it only had that standard size display.
Also, I have'nt responded to Annie yet, but I would add that I have
seen absolutely no degradation in quality of operation in my switch
from the Krown to the Ultratec. It works every bit as well as my
Krown did. So, I am quite happy and as a blind TDD user it is a
much superior system (for me) than the Krown.
Don't worry, AB 1430 will get my support for sure.
Well, I am no expert on the subject but regarding your question of
where do parents of a deaf child turn for advice, I would offer
this as a straight off reply; I would think what is needed is a
more informed and "in touch" medical community. One that recognizes
the problem of deafness as it relates to the sociologies beyond
medicine and science.
I know that my ear surgeon and his office (staff) are much in touch
with and well respected by the area deaf and H.I. community (if you
will) and I think that is a vital connection. In such a situation,
parents with a deaf child might not only receieve medical
assistance but contact with other parents of deaf children.
Keepin' the faith!
. Vixen
--
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Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org