William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/13/90)
Index Number: 10272
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> well, i sure sparked some interest here. hope i didn't offend
DK> anyone but obviously, you did a good job of reading between the
DK> lines. it's a little upsetting to have great handsom dogs like
DK> myself who are physically suffering.
Dan,
LIsten, I couldn't agree with you more! In fact, I'll tell you
what...it isn't even easy having used the same dog for over 11 years and
watching his health slip either!
I do have to tell you a little story now though, and just because
you mentioned that guide dog users groups in California and in NYC were
the ones that made some negative comments about Seeing Eye. There is a
guide dog users group that just formed in Winter Park, Florida, or
somewheres near there, and they too have been known to put the rap on
Seeing Eye. Now then, this group consists primarily of dogs and users
trained at Southeastern Guide Dogs, and I am willing to bet both the
California and NYC users groups have similarly stacked memberships. My
whole entry into this conversation, despite Vixen's assuming it was to
slam San Raphael or any of the guide dog schools, was merely to defend
Seeing Eye, as it has, to my experience, always been the victim of the
other schools students insults! I just ain't never heard a Leader Dog
user beating up on a Southeastern trained dog, or a Pilot dog user
getting down on a Guide Dog Foundation dog, but I have heard all of
these throwing insults at Seeing Eye dogs!
The way I figure it, there can only be two reasons for this:
1. Seeing Eye dogs really are the pits, and they ought to all be
guarding junk yards somewhere, or
2. Seeing Eye is seen by these other guide dog school's graduates as
having too good a reputation, and that this somehow detracts from their
own school!
Well, all I can say is, there were 4 guide dog users at my
apartment today, they made it here from 3 different areas of the city,
they all had Seeing Eye dogs, two of who were about 3 years old, one was
5 years old, and one is almost 14 years old. All except the last is in
excellent physical shape, and actually, he ain't that bad considering
his age, all were excellently behaved, and all, except the elder
statesman Strider who is retired, are excellent workers! In a similar
fashion, when we have our monthly Visually Impaired Pittsburgh Area
Computer Enthusiasts meetings, we generally have 5 guide dog users show
up, ranging in age from just over two to way up there, and again, these
are all healthy dogs, all well behaved, and obviously all good workers.
Oh yeah, and they all just happen to be Seeing Eye dogs too!
Dan, I've heard the stories too, but that just ain't the way it
appears to me, ya know?
Willie
... Like a bat out of Bellevue!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/13/90)
Index Number: 10273
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GM> I am a leader dog user and I was really shocked to hear about
GM> Seeing eye dog policies. I think it really sucks.
Greg,
Thanks for illustrating my point for me!
I would like to at this time further illustrate my point
by doing something I've never done before...comment on the policy of
another guide dog school, or at least how I heard it..
Greg, I hear that Leader Dog gives preferential placement to males
over females into their program. That is, unlike where Tom asked me
whether Seeing Eye uses more female dogs than the others, I have
actually been told by several people that Leader dog will take almost
any male's application immediately, but they tend to make it tougher for
women applying for guide dogs from their school.
Now then Greg, I never paid much attention to these comments about
Leader Dog policy, and I think you should pay just as much to the claims
about Seeing Eye policy!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (09/14/90)
Index Number: 10355
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
HI dan,
You were talking about a woman who has been waiting for help for a year
and a half, are there any other dog guide users near her that could
help? Just curious, how has she handled this problem for such a long
time? tom G
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgHenry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (09/14/90)
Index Number: 10371
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Howdy Willie,
Caught your messages concerning Seeing Eye prioritizing it's clients.
Can't say that they do, can't say that they don't. Three years ago when
i went to Morris town to get my dog guide, Falcon a.k.a. Buzzard, my
April class consisted of an equal mix of new to the Seeing Eye and old
clients. about an equal amount of men to women, 3 diabetics out of 19
clients, but, an inordinate amount of unemployed people (less then25% as
best as I could tell). i think only one was going to return to school in
the fall. so, i don't know if what you do is really on of the criteria.
I do know that every one of those dogs had almost a spittin image of a
personality as there master. Daisy belonged to a youg lady from NJ She
was always bustling about talking and zipping around. daisy was the same
way always starting things with other dogs always moving about a real
speed demon. Bert on the other hand belonged to an old fart bert was
always grumpy sounding girr, girr. of course Falcon is very handsome
well mannored laid back lazy, just like me. in other words i think the
Seeing Eye puts more emphasis on matching its dogs than they do
considering what you do with the dog when you get home. Also, for what
it's worth, I know a Dog Guide user who less than a month after applying
for his dog, was in Michigan getting a dog. I'm not sure Leader Dogs
could have done much of a personality check on this guy who in my opinion
did not need to have a dog (due to his personality not his visual acuity)
I'm not bad mouthing Leader heck i'm a Lion from way back. Just don't
think they need to be in such a gall durn hurry to gine some one a dog.
And while i'm on a roll, my next door neighbor just bought a 6 week old
Golden Retriever for $300.00 and thought they got a bargain, What did we
pay for fully trained dogs? Heck my plane fair to NJ was over $700.00,
and I've eaten alot worse food and paid more than a few dollars for it.
I Think i got a darn good deal for $150.00, and I can say I own the
beast.
well enough about this for me, (for now any way) you and i at least know
who has the best dogs for willie and henry.
henry
out of sight out of mind
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!Henry.Kasten
Internet: Henry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (09/14/90)
Index Number: 10374
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
well i know whenever i work, i feel that i need preferential
treatment!! it's just with a national unemployment avarage of 92%
and a California avarage of 80%, all establishments serving the
blind should be sensitive of this fact. When safety is involved, i
always get protective of the blind and my main concern is for the
gal in Phoenix who is still waiting for field support. every day
that goes by, she is at risk. she needs help and seeing eye is
not there for her. I have loved all 3 of my dogs, one of which
lasted me 8 or 9 years of excellent service to me so i can't
knock seeing eye.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (09/14/90)
Index Number: 10375
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i know one time i was in a wrap group of blinks in Berkeley and two
gals from seeing eye told the entire group that they would only
relate to me because i had a seeing eye dog. I told the group that
i felt their comments were unfair and didn't represent my
feelings. i can tell you of at 4 seeing eye snobs in the bay
area. you and i aren't and this snobbery on the part of few may
be the cause of some of the attitudes from other schools towards
seeing eye. these 4 individuals unfortunatly go to all the
national conventions!!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgThomas.Belsan@f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Thomas Belsan) (09/14/90)
Index Number: 10377
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I question the point of your message about Leader Dogs. It
looked to me like a bad statement was made by some from Leader
about Seeing Eye so you feel it would be correct to
say something bad about Leader. All the schools produce good and
bad teams of dogs and users. A user who has a problem likes
to blame the school. A dog is a great help to some blind people.
The more schools the more people can be helped. Have pride
in your school but lets all stop running down the opther schools.
Our school is not better because someone makes a bad statement about
another.
Tom
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!15!Thomas.Belsan
Internet: Thomas.Belsan@f15.n114.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10392
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I heard that they give preference to individuals that are
employed. I heard it is dificult for an unemployed person to get a
dog from seeing eye. I also heard that they do not do follow up in
the field when there are problems. I don't know if any of this is
true maybe it is just one person's opinon of the school.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgMaggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Maggi Weslager) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10404
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TB> I question the point of your message about Leader Dogs. It
TB> looked to me like a bad statement was made by some from Leader
TB> about Seeing Eye so you feel it would be correct to
TB> say something bad about Leader. All the schools produce good
TB> and bad teams of dogs and users. A user who has a problem likes
TB> to blame the school. A dog is a great help to some blind
TB> people. The more schools the more people can be helped. Have
TB> pride in your school but lets all stop running down the opther
TB> schools. Our school is not better because someone makes a bad
TB> statement about another.
Tom,
Let me stand up for Willie while I'm sitting here. No where in
any of Willie's "Guide Dog" messages did I perceive a negative attitude
toward any Guide Dog schools. He may have been reflecting on someone
else's negative comments but he has nothing to gain from badrapping
another school.
I agree that we should all take pride in our schools and in our
dogs and when we hear someone bad rapping a school we should consider
the source and examine that individual's outlook and experiences
regarding their training. We will probably discover that this person
has petty and defensive opinions towards more than guide dog schools.
Are you a dog guide user, Tom? I think that non-guide dog users
would find this thread a little less interesting than those of us who
have come to rely on our four-footed friends. Personally, this is one
of the threads that I've been the most interested in of late.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Maggi.Weslager
Internet: Maggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10405
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Gregg,
I can sympathize with the follow-up complaints. On the other hand,
people with jobs can't just up and head to Morristown when the Seeing Eye
or they think is best, employers and coworkers have to be consulted and
considered. That's the way I see it. Think of it this way. Some of one's
coworkers are likely to be married. If both work, it takes coordination to
get vacation times synchronized. Sometimes these plans get made months in
advance. If I have to replace my dog, I have to take these other people's
schedules into accdount, if I work with them and want to continue doing so
in a reasonably harmonious manner. The Seeing Eye has to be the one to be
more flexible here. Obviously, all employment isn't in situations where
these concerns factor in. Anyhow, that's my best rationale and I can't see
any flaws in it.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/17/90)
Index Number: 10407
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TB> I question the point of your message about Leader Dogs. It
TB> looked to me like a bad statement was made by some from Leader
TB> about Seeing Eye so you feel it would be correct to
TB> say something bad about Leader.
Thomas,
You couldn't be more wrong in your interpretation of my message, for
I was saying just the opposite! That's exactly why I said to Greg that
he should pay about as much attention to people's statements about
Seeing Eye policy as I did to the claims that Leader Dog gives
preferential treatment to male users!
In other words, no, I don't go around bad rapping dogs from the
other schools, simply because I never had a dog from one of the other
schools. I think that Henry's message, along with mine a while back,
shows that our experience at Seeing Eye doesn't support the claim they
give preferential treatment to employed blinks.
I'm sincerely sorry if you interpreted my message to Greg as a slam
of Leader Dog, as it was, as I said above, an attempt to show how
ridiculous of a thing that would be!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/19/90)
Index Number: 10444
MW> Let me stand up for Willie while I'm sitting here. No
MW> where in any of Willie's "Guide Dog" messages did I
MW> perceive a negative attitude toward any Guide Dog schools. He
MW> may have been reflecting on someone else's negative comments
MW> but he has nothing to gain from badrapping another school.
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Maggi,
And I love you too!
It appears, as Vixen said a long time ago, that we can expect each
of us who use guide dogs to defend our respective schools.
Unfortunately, it also seems that some of us, in our defense read words
in other's messages that just wern't there!
This all started, you'll remember, when I said to Vixen, "When
you're number 1, you don't need to advertise". This was supposed to be
a joke in response to her comments about the San Raphael line of
clothing. Admittedly, it wasn't very funny, but hey, a joke is all it
was!
Then Dan, I believe, started talking about Seeing Eye policy, as if
any of us has any real knowledge of it, and Greg and others jumped right
on it!
Go ahead back and read all the messages in this thread and I
sincerely believe you will find that the only guide dog school getting
the bad rap here is Seeing Eye, exactly what I was asserting from the
beginning, so again, why is this?
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (09/19/90)
Index Number: 10450
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
yes. i am only bringing this all up because i am fond of seeing
eye and also i have a strange desire to not like people being in
danger. field support and getting a new dog quickly I think are
rights all of qualified blind persons should have
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (09/19/90)
Index Number: 10455
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
-> In a message to Gary Petraccaro <09-08-90 10:32> Dan Kysor wrote:
->
-> DK> yes. i am only bringing this all up because i am fond of
-> DK> seeing eye and also i have a strange desire to not like
-> DK> people being in danger. field support and getting a new
-> DK> dog quickly I think are rights all of qualified blind
-> DK> persons should have
Pretty sure I can't agree with the last part. Rights? Naw, I'm
sorry. We have enough dogs and equipment just sitting around that wasting
someone else's time and money seems like a pretty bad idea. That's not all
that important, though. About your friend in Arizona, what are the
crossings like? Maybe if you described them, some of us may have
encountered similar situations and can offer some suggestions. Being able
to help or even potentially help is the important thing.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10466
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I agree, if I had to go to Leader dogs right now due to problems
with my dog, I could not do it because I could not get off work. I
think that Seeing Eye needs to change their policies in this
mater. I know that Guide Dogs for the Blind have field
representatives to work with dogs as needed. Well, I think all the
schools are good especially Leader dogs, Guide dogs and Seeing
Eye. I am not sure about the others. Well, maybe we can get off
this subject and talk about something like sports or something.
Take care and have agood day.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgMartha.Johnson@f778.n115.z1.fidonet.org (Martha Johnson) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10470
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Years ago I was walking somewhere with my first dog and a man came up to
me and asked where I had gotten Baron. I told him that was from Leader
and his name was Baron, and the man had a fit. He said that his daught
had gotten her dog from Seeing Eye and they wouldn't think of giving a
woman a male. How about that one. I dont't know whether I will get
another dog when and if it will become necessary. If I have a job by
then I might consider it.
Martie
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!115!778!Martha.Johnson
Internet: Martha.Johnson@f778.n115.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10475
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MJ> fit. He said that his daught had gotten her dog from Seeing
MJ> Eye and they wouldn't think of giving a woman a male. How
MJ> about that one.
Martha,
Exactly the point I've been trying to make all along with this
thread!!!
I just happen to know two ladies in Pittsburgh, and very much
ladies they are, who have male Seeing Eye dogs!
Hasn't it dawned on all the people here that have been stating
Seeing Eye policy that not even those of us who got our companions from
Seeing Eye know of any official policy on such things as preferential
placement of employed people, gender preferences, etc.???
Note: This wasn't really directed towards you Marti, cause I realize
you were only repeating something some ignoramus told you, but it
appears that some of the people here have decided that they know Seeing
Eye policy, even though they have absolutely no connection to the
organization other than what they have heard, and as you pointed out,
what one hears may have absolutely nothing to do with reality!
Willie
... Like a bat out of Bellevue!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10485
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hello again Willie: intended to reply some time back regarding your
discussions about guide dogs. Good luck on getting your second dog in
October. I often wonder if there are any differences in
discrimination between blind people who use guide dogs, and those who
do not. The 80% unemployed, underemployed, or wasting away as
volunteers causes me to doubt it. No matter the form of
discrimination, its rough, and what gets me the most is whenever you
apply for another job, you have to prove that nonsense about
blindness all over again. What is still worse, if you are unfortunate
enough to have passed 50, then you become less marketable, like
sighted people, and that's the pitts. Anyway, good luck Willie
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgDonna.Siren@p2.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Donna Siren) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10495
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MJ> to me and asked where I had gotten Baron. I told him that was from
MJ> Leader and his name was Baron, and the man had a fit. He said that
MJ> his daught had gotten her dog from Seeing Eye and they wouldn't think
MJ> of giving a woman a male.
My mother got her three dogs from Seeing Eye and I just asked her if she ever
heard that before and she said no, but I'm beginning to wonder if it might
not be true. All her dogs were female and all the women that I can
think of that went therehad females. Maybe someone on this echo knows for
certain one way or the other.
Donna
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!8.2!Donna.Siren
Internet: Donna.Siren@p2.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.orgMaggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Maggi Weslager) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10497
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DS> My mother got her three dogs from Seeing Eye and I just asked
DS> her if she ever heard that before and she said no, but I'm
DS> beginning to wonder if it might not be true. All her dogs were
DS> female and all the women that I can think of that went therehad
DS> females. Maybe someone on this echo knows for certain one way
DS> or the other. Donna
Donna,
I know five women who received male guide dogs from the Seeing
Eye. When I was at The Eye there was this guy in training with us who
kept preaching that women shouldn't get male dogs because the dogs
always became unruly during a woman's menstrual cycle. Boy, we all got
more than a few chuckles out of that one!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Maggi.Weslager
Internet: Maggi.Weslager@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgMarda.Anderson@f9.n393.z1.fidonet.org (Marda Anderson) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10510
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I wonder how these rumors get started? I was given two male dogs from
Seeing Eye and my best friend from my first class has a male. There were
several women in the class who had males.
marda
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!393!9!Marda.Anderson
Internet: Marda.Anderson@f9.n393.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10521
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willy, just thought i'd wish you luck in October. I'll be doing the same
thing that month as well.
The hard thing for me will be adjusting to the command differences between
Seeing Eye and Guide Dogs.
Guide Dogs users use their left foot on the down curb and their right hand
for leash corrections while dropping the harness handle.
I know what you mean about keeping the old dog. I am struggling with that
myself and have determined the only dog to get jealous will be my wife's
dog.
Anyway, good luck and say hi to all my friends there for me...
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10523
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I never had any problems with Seeing Eye as far as field followup on
the first dog that I had. Granted I had to really talk them into it.
My first dog didn't work out and I went back there for a seccond. She
was a jewel and worth allthe pain and trouble I had over the first.
Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/20/90)
Index Number: 10524
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
TG> I went through the change from one dog to another about a year
TG> ago. It is not easy because the first dog had made things so
TG> easy for you that you don't have to think about much as you
TG> walk along.
Tom,
Yeah, Gary and everybody else I've talked to about this tells me
that indeed, the second dog is the toughest! This makes sense to me,
because I remember how amazed I was by the mere fact that Strider could
walk me down the sidewalk without crashing into anything, and since it
was an overwhelming learning experience for me at my initial trip to
Seeing Eye, I'm not sure the reality of the situation even dawned on me
till much later.
Now, with more than a few miles under my belt with my companion,
however, I expect it will be natural for me to expect what comes so
naturally with Strider to be there from day one with the new dog. I
know this just can't be the case, and that whole subtle communications
that occurs between dog and person on the dumb end of the harness will
take a while to develope, but do me a favor and remind me of this a
couple of months from now, will ya?
Vixen, I know how excited you are, going after your first dog and
not quite knowing what all to expect, but trust me, even after 11 years
of harness holding, it is not without anticipation that I am pondering
my return to Morristown! I just got my plane reservations yesterday,
and frankly, I'm a little scared!
Willie
... Like a bat out of Bellevue!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (09/21/90)
Index Number: 10592
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I am sure that there is a miss understanding some where regarding
Seeing Eye. I have only heard one complaint about them. I think
all the schools are basically good; the effectiveness of a dog
depends on what happens after the dog leaves the school. I am sure
they must do some follow up to maintain the good reputation they
have. Well, take care and God Bless!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (09/25/90)
Index Number: 10625
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> had him many years. they were too quick in having me retire my
DK> third dog, i think. I still think that since Groute left
DK> things are starting to change there,
Dan,
SAY WHAT???
Excuse me, but when did Seeing Eye take over the job of deciding
when to retire a dog??? I have never met anyone who ever said that
Seeing Eye decided when to retire a dog, and I can assure you that they
quite intentionally avoided making that decision for me when I
questioned them about Strider!
Sorry if this came out a little strong, but honestly, I don't want
the others reading this thread to think that Seeing Eye decides when a
dog is to be retired, cause that just ain't the case! Perhaps in the
case of ongoing health problems they might suggest it, but like I said
earlier, the reason Seeing Eye charges a price, ridiculously low as it
is, for their dogs, is they want it firmly established that it is YOUR
dog, and not theirs, and this includes things like making decisions
about retirement! If their is anything about Seeing Eye philosophy that
I fully support, assuming any of us is able to make statements about any
of the guide dog school's philosophies or policies, it is this!
Personally, I would never get a dog from a school that maintains some
sort of control over the dog after I am home with it, and without a
doubt, Seeing Eye is not guilty of such a thing!
As far as Seeing Eye changing since Grout left, I find it ironic
that what most people have always complained about Seeing Eye, the fact
they don't change much from year to year, you now propose to be
vice-versa! Things like expecting the students to where less than
informal clothes for the noon meal, and the use of Mr. and Mrs. instead
of first names for the trainers are examples of things I've heard people
bitch about needing updated, but they still do those things, and they
still have many of the same personel, and they still have basically the
same program they've had all along!
Nope Dan, there isn't any evidence to me that things have changed
that much since Grout left, and if indeed they have, I will be the first
to speak up and say I was wrong, on this you can count!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWalter.Siren.@p1.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren ) (09/25/90)
Index Number: 10626
WW> that occurs between dog and person on the dumb end of the harness
What do you mean about the dumb end? There is nothing dumb about those animals.
Walter
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!8.1!Walter.Siren.
Internet: Walter.Siren.@p1.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.orgvlb@magic.apple.com (Vicki Brown) (09/28/90)
Index Number: 10676 In article <14414@bunker.UUCP> Walter.Siren.@p1.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org writes: >Index Number: 10626 > > WW> that occurs between dog and person on the dumb end of the harness > > What do you mean about the dumb end? There is nothing dumb about those animals. > > Walter Funny, I read this to mean the person was on the "dumb" end. vicki Vicki Brown A/UX Development Group Apple Computer, Inc. Internet: vlb@apple.com MS 50UX, 10300 Bubb Rd. UUCP: {sun,amdahl,decwrl}!apple!vlb Cupertino, CA 95014 USA Ooit'n Normaal Mens Ontmoet? En..., Beviel't? (Did you ever meet a normal person? Did you enjoy it?)
tim@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (Tim Pointing) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10681
In article <14414@bunker.UUCP> Walter.Siren.@p1.f8.n396.z1.fidonet.org writes:
WW> that occurs between dog and person on the dumb end of the harness
WS> What do you mean about the dumb end? There is nothing dumb about those animals.
Look again. He said "the *person* on the dumb end". I agreee that there is
nothing dumb about guide dogs. I don't have one myself (I'm not a blink)
but I am now sharing my office with a fellow with a dog and, despite the
fact that he has only had the dog for about 1 year, it is doing very well.
--
Tim Pointing, DCIEM
{decvax,attcan,watmath,...}!utzoo!dciem!tim
uunet!csri.toronto.edu!dciem!tim or nrcaer!dciem!tim
tim%ben@zorac.dciem.dnd.ca or tim@ben.dciem.dnd.caGrant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10709
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Every school has its plusses and minuses and a lot of what
happens depends on the student's attitude. Seeing Eye and Guide
Dogs happen to be my favorates but then I've had two good
experiences at Seeing Eye even though my first dog didn't work
out and havemany friends who had wonderful dogs from Guide Dogs.
Each of the schools perform a valuable service to the blind of
the world and should be commended for what they do. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10710
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Greg, you have push, justify, and plead your case to Seeing Eye
but once they send someone out to help you it is good. In my
case I had Mr. Taylor down to New Orleans twice. Unfortunately
we couldn't get things to work out with my first dog but it
wasn't due to lack of effort on both of our parts that dog was
just a male stud who wanted to strut his stuff and didn't have
time for anything else. I went back again and got a lovely dog,
Udelle, with whom I had no problems. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10714
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
willy, i never said they told me to retire the dog, i said they
were too quick in advising me to retire Madchen. I am qualified to
discuss their policies as far as how the school has effected me, i
had 3 dogs from there and i think i know them pretty well. you are
correct in the fact that "we" decide on our dog's fate. i
understand loyalty to one's school but we, as you intimated, are
consumers and should be able to comment about issues that concern
minor things like our survival, ie, with the use of these dogs and
how policys and everything effects us and our independence.
I think there is no guide school that is perfect. i am going to
san rafael next month and i really will miss the seeing eye
harness. i had peter jackson twice and wouldn't be surprised to
see him in san rafael, <grin!!! take care for now
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDave.Martin@f800.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Martin) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10734
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Grant, yes, tis I, a voice from your past. Havent seen you
since those wonderful days in california. As for the guide dog
thing. I fully agree with you. I had a dog for 5 years, and I had
nothing but the best of luck and times with Silver. He was a great
dog, and the staff at Guiding Eyes were also just as good and
suportive. I did notice, however that some of the students were a
bit of a problem. ONe of the things that I wish could be on any
and all aplications for guide dog training is one simple question.
"do you hhave a love for dogs"? I think this is very important,
because that dog is a
not just a "tool" for the individual. To be a good team, the
master and dog have to be a "team" they have to love and
understand one another. It can't just be a situation where the
master takes from the dog, and the dog does all the giving. I
noticed several students in my calass who just perceived their dogs
as some kind of advanced machine, rather than a living breathing,
and, yes, a very feeling animal. They always had a lot of trouble
with their dogs, and I know of at least 2 of them who sent their
dogs back because they had lots of problems. You are so right,
Grant. The "student" problem is one that we seldom hear about. Of
course the reason for this is very obvious. God forbid that any of
us should take any of the blame for a bad match between dog and
master. That's the school's problem, right? Anyway, hope to talk
to you soon, Grant.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!800!Dave.Martin
Internet: Dave.Martin@f800.n106.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10737
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Grant,
I agree with you. I have seen a lot of good dogs loose their
training because after they leave the school the master does not do
what he/she is suposed to do. For some reason a lot of people
when they get home with their dogs they forget about all the
training and the dog can not be blamed. You are right; we can not
blame all the problems on the schools and we must take a good look
at our own behavior with the dogs. I feel like a dog guide
training never stops. I am constantly training my dog. They need
reinforcement on a daily basis. Thanks for your ideas. How are
things going for you. What do you do? Are you working?
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10754
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i know that seeing eye constantly stresses the fact that the dog is
not a machine. I totally aggree with you. ALL of the schools need
better screening for their students. I know a fellow in Nor
California who beats his dog. The dog was bleeding from a certain
location and the school was told about the problem from the
master's girlfriend. the school simply took the dog away and he
recieved a replacement dog. Sorry, didn't mean to ruin your
day... but you made a good point. questions like, do you like
dogs and what are your goals with a dog guide, should be asked on
applications.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgMarda.Anderson@f2.n393.z1.fidonet.org (Marda Anderson) (10/02/90)
Index Number: 10756
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I agree with you that the problem is often the students. I know
that there are times when dogs are sent home that probably shouldn't
be because the schools try to give the students the benefit of the
doubt. In my class at Seeing Eye there was a guy who complained
continuously when the trainers corrected him about something. He
admitted to us that he didn't think he needed the training b because
he didn't use the dog except as a public relations thing when he had
speaking engagements. There was another guy who should have had
mobility training before he got a dog. The instructors were trying
to teach him bqasic things like listening to traffic patterns. In
my Guide Dog Foundation class we had a young kid who complained
about having to groom his golden retriever. He thought he was going
to get someone from the lions' club to groom his dog. Needless to
say, he soon found out otherwise, couldn't accept it and sent his
dog back. I think all of the schools are trying to do the best they
can to give as many people dogs as really want and need them. I
agree with you though that a love for dogs is extremely important.
marda
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!393!2!Marda.Anderson
Internet: Marda.Anderson@f2.n393.z1.fidonet.orgWalter.Siren.@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren ) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10842
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
WW> DM> wish could be on any and all aplications for guide dog training
WW> DM> is one simple question. "do you hhave a love for dogs"? I
WW> DM> think this is very important, because that dog is a not just a
WW> DM> "tool" for the individual. To be a good team, the master and
WW> DM> dog have to be a "team" they have to love and understand one
WW> DM> another.
WW>
WW> David,
WW> Never have I seen truer words in this echo, and my hat is off to
WW> you!
While you are right, who do you think that is applying for a
guidedog will answer that question in the negative. Any one
wanting a dog certainly will not admit to a school that he does not
like dogs. He knows that will exclude him from getting a dog. I
immagine that is why that question is not on the application.
Walter
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren.
Internet: Walter.Siren.@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10860
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Lots of Love! Lots of work! lots of effort by the owner! lots of effort
by the pooch! and a heck of a lot of desire coming altogether at once
makes that special relation between dog and master unique and special.
When it comes right down to it what happens is between the pooch and
the master because after the school experience is over it is all new,
all new and everything starts over again. Therefore once a person has
the basics and is confortable with using a dog I think they could go to
just about anywhere and make it work. However even knowing that if I
ever get another dog I still think I'd go back to Seeing Eye or Guide
Dogs. No matter what the schools teach theough, love is what really
makes that special team work. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgDave.Martin@f800.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Martin) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10863
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hi, Garry, yes, I agree with you. It's very hard to screen all the dogs as
thoroughly as we would like to, and, there are times when because of the human
element, a bad match is made. This is unfortunate, and unavoidable. Yes,
respect, and consideration is necessary, and those 2 traits are most easily
exhibited when "love" is there. then, that consideration is not something
that has to be thought about, it is a given thing, and, so is respect. Of
course, I could be accused of being prejudiced, I guess. I've been a dog
lover since before I can remember. No, no need to be a fanatic about it, but,
it does help.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!800!Dave.Martin
Internet: Dave.Martin@f800.n106.z1.fidonet.orgGreg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Mason) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10867
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hahahaha
This is really true. I remember one day when I told my dog to go
forward and he refused. I corected him really hard only to find
out that the reason he refused to go forward was a drop off. I
felt really stupid. It is team work. s s
s[A[A[A[A
s
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Greg.Mason
Internet: Greg.Mason@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/03/90)
Index Number: 10868
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
a gal in my 2nd class did the same thing. the dog wouldn't go
forward on command so she went anyway and... well, the city
shouldn't leave open man holes. she sewed and received 35 thousand
bucks and just broke an arm!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10899
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I've never seen your question on any of the dog school
applications, Dave, but that is certainly the first question
that should be asked. I've seen so many people come back from
dog guideschools and totally unhappy with their dogs and puting
the poor dog in the position of doing all of the giving. One
must have a deep love and appreciation for dogs in order to be a
success.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgTom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10910
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Greg,
I have a male and my retired dog is also a male. In fact when i went to
leader I had a problem because I kept saying "good girl" because the dog
that I trained was a female great dane. I also had a female trainer
which was very interesting. I kept telling juno down but that Juno
never listened. I guess one of Leaders biggest problems is the way the
Lions tend to hassel people when they find out that the dog they have
did not come from Leader. I am still trying to figure out how to
educate these people. tom G
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!210!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f210.n273.z1.fidonet.orgMartha.Johnson@f778.n115.z1.fidonet.org (Martha Johnson) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10912
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I don't know if you were kiding or not; but I will put my two cents in
about leader. I have gotten all three of my dogs from there, and if or
when I go for another dog Iwold go there again. When I was there in the
summer of '85 they wouldn't take people on escalators. I would have
liked to know how to do it just for training purposes, but I think I
would be afraid to take the dog, Heather, on them. I'm not afraid of them
myself. Dave Hinz, I think that is how you spell his name, didn't really
want to take me through revolving doors. There are only a couple of
things that I wish they would teach the ones who want to do is traveling
with a shopping cart and traveling on the alevated or sub-way systems.
If I can think of any thing else I'll make another message. I think this
will help a little bit. I might add that Heather is not afraid of city
travel.
Martie
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!115!778!Martha.Johnson
Internet: Martha.Johnson@f778.n115.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10915
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
well, i really would be afraid to comment on the sexual conitation,
i mean really! on the serious side, when i was interviewed by the
guide dog's field rep, i stated to him that although i'm medium
height, i keep getting these gigantic dogs, like 26 &1/2 inches.
why can't i get a 24 to 26 inch animal? i also mentioned that it
was really refreshing to me afterhaving a roughty go getter like my
second dog to have a mellow evenly paced dog like my dog, Madchen.
He told me that the schools have a dog type known as "hard core".
he said that i really need a mellow dog but he could see why
schools accidently assumed that i would be matched with a "hard
core" dog.
the schools say there is no difference between males & females,
(dogs willy) in terms of personalities. i know this will spark
negative comments, but in my opinion, females are usually more
mellow than male dogs, "generally".
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGrant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Downey) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10921
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
You are most certainly right but there has got to be a way to find out
who ahouls or should not be allowed to have a dog. At least if the
question was on the application it would possibly make people stop and
think. Grant
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!381!9.0!Grant.Downey
Internet: Grant.Downey@p0.f9.n381.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10922
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> females, (dogs willy) in terms of personalities. i know this
DK> will spark negative comments, but in my opinion, females are
DK> usually more mellow than male dogs, "generally". --
Dan,
As some wise person said here not too long ago, and what I've been
trying to say all along, making generalizations based upon our limited
experiences is bound to bring about faulty conclusions.
Despite that, I understand why this would seem to be so, and indeed,
perhaps due to inherant differences in the sexes, there may be a
tendancy for this to be true. I have a feeling Maggi is laughing her
cute caboose off right now though, cause she has known Strider all of
the time I've had him, and boy, they don't come any mellower than him.
Meanwhile, she has Fudge, the toughest little bitch of a black lab the
world has ever known!
Willie
... Like a bat out of Bellevue!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10926
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I've had 2 guide dogs, and in both classes, I knew males with dogs of
either sex and females with dogs of either sex. Even if this were not so,
so what? Is this really significant? Has our politicization grown so
great that we have to concern ourselves with this kind of triviality? I
mean, if someone wanted to contend that this had some bearing on how well
the dogs work, I could see it. Nobody has said this. On the other hand
there are issues of ownership where some schools transfer ownership and
some don't. This hasn't gotten much if any comment. I must say that I
don't get this at all.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10929
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I don't know about sparking discussion, but I tend to agree with you
about females tending more towards being melo. Always some overlap,
though. Can't get more melo than my current dog, and a friend has a very
playful female of 5 or 6.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (10/05/90)
Index Number: 10936
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
GP> this. On the other hand there are issues of ownership where
GP> some schools transfer ownership and some don't. This hasn't
GP> gotten much if any comment. I must say that I don't get this
GP> at all. ---
Gary,
Yeah, what is the story about that? I mentioned the fact that
Seeing Eye transfers ownership twice, and still, nobody bites with a
response!
That may be the only thing that clearly differs between the various
schools, yet for some reason, nobody here even considers it worth
talking about!!!
Strange, very strange!!!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgStew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11012
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Willie: I notice quite a bit of interest here in guide dogs. I had
a guide dog about 25 years ago. That dog was super. As a matter of
fact, so good, that I never got over it when she died. Also, since I
entered the teaching profession and did not have travel as planned, a
second dog was not necessary. However, I'm not sure that I could have
gotten one anyway, because I would always compare that second dog to
the first one. How do you handle that?
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.orgmcgrew@Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11018 In article <14749@bunker.UUCP> Al.Hoffman@p0.f143.n109.z1.fidonet.org writes: >1. What can you do with a dog that I can't with ease and speed with my >cane. I am not unimaginative. I won't even mention the things that >limit a dog, but is the limit on a cane--thats the limit of the user, as >you will no doubt say holds for the dog as well. The following are based on my experience with my wife. She has used a guide dog for over 8 years (actually, 8 years with the first, and now 3 months with the second), and I have been her primary orientation instructor for the last 5 years or so (although I don't have any formal training in orientation instruction). - - A guide dog can take you to a curb if you get disoriented while crossing a street. - - My wife can't check the path in front of her with a cane as quickly as her dog can check it visually, so she walks much faster with a dog than with a cane. - - A guide dog allows my wife to get around without being as thoroughly familiar with the route as she'd need to be with a cane. This makes orientation easier and quicker, and allows her to remember more routes, since she doesn't need to know each individual route in as much detail. This is especially true for routes that are "visually simple" (eg, "turn left and follow the paths that direction until you get to the gravel walkway") but "non-visually complex" (eg, the above route may have a lot of obsacles like bike racks, benches, etc., the path may jog to the left or right a couple times, the shoreline may be hard to pick up with a cane, etc.). - - A guide dog can sometimes figure out how to get where you want to go, even when the route you know is blocked or when you've become disoriented. - - A guide dog can sometimes fetch something that you just dropped, assuming you didn't drop something that could hurt the dog's mouth. Also, a dog tends to eat things that are edible, rather than retrieve them. :-) - - A guide dog makes a great conversation starter, which can be very useful if you need to ask someone where you are, or if you just want to be sociable. - - A guide dog can cheer you up when you're feeling down. - - A guide dog can let you know when your spouse comes home. These were just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can come up with more. Darin McGrew mcgrew@Eng.Sun.COM Affiliation stated for identification purposes only.
Tom.Gerhart@f722.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11047
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willie,
It is very hard in the beginning because the second dog is not the first
and he or she does not always know what you want them to do. I have had
my second dog for about a year and a half now and although he is quite
different from the first the bond is becoming a stroung one. Rocky my
first dog is very mellow like Strider and Woody the second is extremely
high spirited and is interested in the entire world around him at all
times. I have to pay attention to what I'm doing and also what he is
doing. Good luck at school and I know that Strider will really like his
retirement. tom G
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!722!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f722.n273.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/10/90)
Index Number: 11050
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
know what you mean. i tell you what, i'll be glad next when i get
my new dog. this cane busisness is for the birds. speaking of
idiosyncracys!!! my last guide, madchen really had a nice long
stride. we could really move out but she didn't pull hard and we
didn't seem like we were moving fast but we were. it was really
funny, when the guide dog represenative interviewed, we went for a
walk. he took Madchen just to give her some air. this fella was a
little over 6 feet so when we came to our first overhang, the dog
stopped instinctivly for him!! he was really impressed and
needless to say, madchen got a few pats. i am really curious as to
what kind of hound i'll be getting.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (10/12/90)
Index Number: 11076
DK> willy, it's getting down to the wire for me, a week from sunday!
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Dan,
I still got 3 weeks to go, and I envy you quite a bit! I am
getting extremely anxious at this point, realizing some pooch is
finishing up its training in preparation for gettin me!
DK> thing is they have different commands and techniques. instead
DK> of putting your right foot first to probe at the curb, they use
DK> their left. they use their right hand for leash corrections.
I am sort of curious about how this works out for you. As I am sure
everybody realizes by now, I'm pretty set in my ways, and what may
appear like trivial matters to a person who doesn't use a guide dog can
be major hurdles for us.
Well, good luck, but I bet any money you go back to your old habits
after you're home. For some reason, I think you're a little set in your
ways too!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/13/90)
Index Number: 11097
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hi willie. i didn't have any problems getting acquanted or adjusted to my
second dog. The thing is either people think their 2nd should be as good
as their first and work the same way... as you know, dogs are all different
and by the time you get your second dog, you forget how much time it took
your first dog to get where it got. from your various comments about
strider, you shouldn't have any difficulties. I was amazed when i was back
at the eye this last time, how much more information they dispence about
all aspects of guiding and training.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (10/17/90)
Index Number: 11159
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
-> In a message to All <10-10-90 18:04> Darin Mcgrew wrote:
->
-> DM> From: mcgrew@Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
-> DM> Message-ID: <14871@bunker.UUCP>
-> DM> Index Number: 11018
-> DM> The following are based on my experience with my wife. She
Bravo! Excellent description of the detail of knowlege needed to get
around.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgmattioli@took.dec.com (John R. Mattioli) (10/19/90)
Index Number: 11195 In article <14871@bunker.UUCP>, mcgrew@Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) writes... > >>1. What can you do with a dog that I can't with ease and speed with my >>cane. I am not unimaginative. I won't even mention the things that >>limit a dog, but is the limit on a cane--thats the limit of the user, as >>you will no doubt say holds for the dog as well. > Hi, An earlier reply here mentioned the fact that no dog owner would ever ask a question like that and therefore you shouldn't get a dog. I don't know if it's true that no dog owner has ever asked questions like that, but you are not a dog owner. I've worked a dog for the past nine years and I can tell you that it has been an experience worth living through! I was a good cane traveler and I consider myself to be a good dog traveler because I gave up some things for a while. For example, I worked my dog very hard for the first year or so. I was still in high school when I got the dog. I had a newspaper route at the time that I walked every day come rain, snow, or baking hot sun. I demanded very good work and behavior from my dog. I needed to do a goo deal of correcting, and that cost me some time, but the pay off has been amazing! At this point I will go anyplace and do anything with my dog. I regularly walk through strange bus/train stations and have often gone through airports. When I went to college (I went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) we got to experience lots of wandering pathes, unusual intersections, strange stairways, irregular buildings, you name it. I was virtrually able to run around the campus (and I do mean run). In short, I found the dog well worth the sacrifices I made on her behalf for the first year or so. But all of that was just theory before I got the dog. I couldn't know that it would be that way. Actually, since my family was never a dog family, I was kind of skeptical. I talked to several people and I asked the same questions and I got the same answers from almost everyone. The answer is rather simple. There are good points and there are bad points and you've got to weigh the good with the bad. For example, take some of the following points: > >- - A guide dog can take you to a curb if you get disoriented while > crossing a street. > This is true. I remember one summer evening in 1984 when I was in Phili at the ACB convention. I'd been out partying all night and I was walking back to my hotel at the ungodly hour of about 3:30am. I was tired and not paying real close attention because the walk was basically a straight line. While crossing one street I did get a bit disoriented and my dog did take me to a curb. The trouble was, it was the wrong curb. Obviously, it's better to be on the wrong curb then wondering down the middle of the street, but it was still rather disorienting. > >- - A guide dog allows my wife to get around without being as > thoroughly familiar with the route as she'd need to be with a > cane. > Also very true. I counted on my dog for a lot of this sort of thing especially at college when I had to find my way around that "maze of twisty little passages all alike." The problem is that even the best dog can get distracted and, if you don't know the route well, it can take you longer to recover. Recovering from mistakes is a problem a person has with a dog or a cane so pick your poison. > >- - A guide dog can sometimes figure out how to get where you want > to go, even when the route you know is blocked or when you've > become disoriented. > This works great when you're in a shopping mall with a sighted person and you're looking for the exit and neither of you know where it is because you've both gotten disoriented while walking around the building. Vessy, and perhaps most dogs, have this thing about exits. If you can get to one from where you are, they'll figure out how. It's a great way to make a believer out of even the most skeptical (like my father). > >- - A guide dog makes a great conversation starter, which can be > very useful if you need to ask someone where you are, or if you > just want to be sociable. > True, but it can also be frustrating to stand at a party and talk dogs with some nice young lady for fifteen minutes. The frustrating part is when you eventually say something like, "My name is John what's yours?" and she says something like, "I'm Sue and it's been great talking to you but I've gotta go now. Bye." If you're wondering what my point is (after all that rambling) it's simply this. Just remember that there's a good side and a bad side to everything you do in your life. Look at the pluses and the minuses, weigh them, and make your decission. Nobody can tell you if a dog is the right way for you to go. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Mattioli Most improved skier (american blind skiers association 1989) and humble to! (DEC E-NET) TOOK::MATTIOLI (UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!TOOK.dec.com!MATTIOLI (ARPA) MATTIOLI@TOOK.dec.com MATTIOLI%TOOK.dec.com@decwrl.dec.com (US MAIL) John Mattioli 550 King St. LKG2-2/BB9 Littleton, Ma. 01460
Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (10/23/90)
Index Number: 11226
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hi tom. an over-the-ear correction is used as the most stern
physical correction you can give a guide dog. you pull the choak
chain up to the level of her ears and yank the leash like giving a
normal quick leash correction. this produces sort of an electric
shock effect to the dog. again, this is not meant to be used a lot
as guide dog users will tell you.hope that answered that one. i
never gave my last dog that type of correction and for that matter,
she didn't require much physical correcting, verbal was
sufficient.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.orgShawn.Keene@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Shawn Keene) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12913
William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12928
Dan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12959
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hi there shawn. i've been to both guide dogs for the blind and the seeing
eye. there are about 4 or 5 other schools which are equally excellent
throughout the country. i am on my fourth guide dog and have been using them
for many years. as for your using a dog in high school you need to determine
how much you will be using the dog. will you be walking to school? are the
halls in your high school really crowded? there are some situations such as
crowded halls where it might be more practical to use a cane. it is
reccomended by many guide dog schools that you need to work the dog at least
1.5 to 2 miles per day. also, you need to be very careful in high school to
avoid letting the dog become a mascot. this occurs often to many college
students. the decision, however, must be yours and must be thought out
logically. i hope i've been a little help to you. you might see if there is
a guide dog user's group in your area or at least visit a couple of guide dog
users... dan & drummer- hop up is just a figment of your imagination!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!999!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f999.n203.z1.fidonet.orgShawn.Keene@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Shawn Keene) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12913
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
i am thanking about geting a guide dog
and want to no good places to go i have herd alot about new jersey
i have herd that place is grate
also i want to no if i should get one my seanor year
i am in 11th grade now should i get it this
summer or wait untell i get out of high
school i really believe it would solve a lot of problems i have geting
aroud
i dont feel cane is good enuf
someonw write me and tell me your views.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!Shawn.Keene
Internet: Shawn.Keene@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (01/15/91)
Index Number: 12928
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
SK> and want to no good places to go i have herd alot about new
SK> jersey i have herd that place is grate
Shawn,
In my opinion, you heard right!
SK> i am in 11th grade now should i get it this
SK> summer or wait untell i get out of high
SK> school i really believe it would solve a lot of problems i have
Well, although I see no reason for you to not get a guide dog before
your senior year, depending on your individual circumstances, it may be
wise to wait till you're through with high school. Do you think you
would be able to convince your classmates that your pooch is a working
animal, and not to mess with it, etc.
Seriously, probably the best thing to do would be to discuss this
with Seeing Eye or whatever guide dog school you decide on, and go by
their advice.
Willie
... Even if you're not the lead dog, the view can be interesting!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois) (06/05/91)
Index Number: 15991
Hell0 Linda,
I just thought I'd drop a quick line. I have a dog. I did the training
for Joy last summer and we've been together ever since. There are
several advantages to going to the training centres. I think probably
the most important item is that the dog is still in a familiar
surrounding even with his/her new buddy. It took Joy a bit of time to
adjust to her surroundings here but she's one of the best things that
has ever happened to me in my life. Some people prefer a cane.
Personally, the dog is like a living extension of my arm. There are
pros and cons but for me the pros outweigh the cons. The dog provides
as much companionship in her off hours as she does safe mobility in her
on hours.
I'll talk to you later and fill you in some more on some of my
experiences.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!207.666!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois) (06/07/91)
Index Number: 16022
Hold the fort sports fans! I never said I trained my dog. You are
mistaking me for someone else. Joy is from Canadian Guide Dogs. I do
not or would not advocate private dog training.
I stated that the training centres and thus attending were beneficial
for both you and the dog. Dogs are adaptable but the centre allows the
dog to more easily adjust to you in familiar surroundings.
Rember me now?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!207.666!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.orgBill.Burgess@f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Burgess) (06/07/91)
Index Number: 16023
Linda, I did four years of slate braille then acquired the Noah's
Ark of braillers, called the New Hall's Braillewriter. It was issued
by the American Printing House for the Blind too, but preceded the
Perkins by many years. The paper si clamped to the platen or rubber
roller then wraps around it similar to the Perkins, but the roller
is on a moveable carriage like the old fashioned typewriter and the
"points" remain in the same position. Push the carriage back and
turn up the roller via the knob at either side for a carriage return
operation. Great antique and it does the job quite nicely still. The
slate and stylus travel with me at all times, like American Express
says, "Don't leave home without it". Must dash for now so talk to
you later and always good to hear from you.
Love and hugs always,
Bill
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!229!401!Bill.Burgess
Internet: Bill.Burgess@f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org