Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Dennis Mcclain-Furmanski ) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15838
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
_The Mensa Genius Quiz_ is a book that contains very similar material to the
Mensa tests. The instructions in it are very clear, simple english, by design.
Although I've not checked the readability against any of the "standard" scales,
it looks to me to be roughly equivalent to newspaper level, i.e. 7th grade
english. I don't think any native signer who's acheived a working literacy in
written english would have any problems at all with the instructions. I *am*
assuming the book's instructions are close to the test's. The vocabulary
portion of the test would be a different matter.
The 4 Sigma test is altogether different. The instructions are a puzzle in
themselves.
In either case, how is one to know if the instructions are understood, even if
by a hearing person? Can't be just from correct answers, because that would
indicate that everyone who didn't do well didn't understand, and nobody would
just not be able to process the questions.
Mensans are more aware than most concerning test bias and cross cultural
problems.
One of the most often quoted stories I heard from those folks was about scoring
interperation. Albert Einstein is said to have flunked math in grade school.
This isn't true. He got top grades in math, and did poorly in everything else.
He went to elementary school in Switzerland where grades are given as 1 through
5, 1 being the best. When his family moved back to Germany, the scores were
interperated according to German convention, 1 through 5, with 1 being failing.
I'm pretty certain Mensa would be interested in developing a native ASL
equivalent test. All it would take is asking them.
I don't belong myself. I joined 4 Sigma once, but it was primarily a social
thing (which is as it should be, I think) and I'm not a social animal.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!42!Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.
Internet: Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15848
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Dennis, I enjoyed your response to me. Thank you. It was very informative.
I just want you to be aware that what I was describing was the reason
why so many Deaf people son't do well on written tests. It is not the
fault of the test makers and such. The educational system with its
focus on speech andthe utterly artificial method of teaching to English
to the Deaf child is and has been for two hundred years a failure.
With a few exceptions-usually with post lingugally deafened persons.
What happens then is that you get a person who has little true mastery
of English being tested with an English based test. Now you mentioned
the Mensa test being at the newspaper level (you said about 7th grade).
Ok, good. Now do you know that the average Deaf person graduates from
high school with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level? That's what I was
referring to as the reason why so few deafies would be members of Mensa.
Not for lack of potential ability, but because educational system has
and is failing them. This is what I and certain other people on this
echo rail so much against to the chagrin of some. Oh yeah, heheheheh;
by the way, do you knwo that chagrin originally meant the rump of a
horse? It later got associated with rough hide materials and came to
mean abrasive and unpleasant.
Well, in any case, I just want you to be aware that I don't want to
seem to be knocking Mensa. They have nothing to do with the deaf education
situation, but the fact they would probably attempt to make an ASL
test says probably fresh unabiased blood like them probably should
be in involved. You take it easy, fellow.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgDennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Dennis Mcclain-Furmanski ) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15857
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
I don't think James was saying that the kids shouldn't learn english. One quick
look at any non-english-native ghetto can show the chances of getting out of
any socio-economic trap without learning the national language.
I think his point was that the *testing* should be done in the testee's native
language.
They do it for spanish-speaking, they should do it for signers.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!42!Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.
Internet: Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.orgDennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Dennis Mcclain-Furmanski ) (05/30/91)
Index Number: 15858
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I was pretty clear on what you were explaining viz.
test making and taking. I think that maybe the point that Tim takes (*among
others, but he's so fervent that it strikes me) that ASL needs to be considered
a native language in its own right. Perhaps then it could be understood in the
light we've been talking about.
It's always aggravated me that sign language is taught in colleges in the
speech pathology department. Pathology: the study of the nature of diseases.
Like it's sick to be deaf. At the very least, a native signer should be given
the choice to consider themselves a user of english as a second language.
It occurs to me, how would one create a test with directions for native
signers? Is the only way to do that with a signer giving the directions?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!42!Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.
Internet: Dennis.Mcclain-Furmanski.@f42.n275.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16065
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Yes, I AM fervent about ASL being a native language, after all, it's the
language best understood by (MOST) (That was inserted to avoid hearing
some people screaming "FOUL! FOUL!" at the top of their lungs) deaf
people... So, let's give them THEIR language, and then teach them
english through THEIR language!
Pathology: That word digusts me.. I am deaf, I am not diseased. Why
keep putting me with the Pathological IDIOTS?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org