Henry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (05/03/91)
Index Number: 15294
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Nancy,
>From the tome of many of the messages regarding stupidity (placed
in this conference by accident), I assumed there were some pretty
angry disabled folks out there. Of course there are individual
times when I have had to bite my tongue. Sometimes not hard
enough. But when you said, "if you have never had a bad day I envy
you!", that sounds like an excuse, not a reason. Nancy, bad days
are relative. Your worst day may not even compare with someone
else's normal mundane day. All I am trying to say, is strive to
keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart. Don't dwell on
the negative. I am sure that most of us out there really are
pretty nice and only try to sound like we have the quickest and
sharpest responses to "stupid" people.
Nuff said, HK
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!Henry.Kasten
Internet: Henry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgPaula.Mack@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Paula Mack) (05/03/91)
Index Number: 15308
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
NF> I do try to be nice to people and most of the time it is easy.
NF> But if you have never had a bad day I envy you!
Hi Nancy,
Just wanted to jump in here, because I think the main point of this
whole thread is that although we all try our best to be nce to people,
we should not be obligated, (just because we are blind) to have our
whole lives on display for their benefit. I feel that if a blink is the
sort of person who is outgoing and likes to talk to people, then fine.
However, in my particular case, I'm not that kind of person, and I don't
think I should be compelled to change my entire personality for the sake
of public education.
NF> Also another fact for you to consider: Not all blind people who
NF> have dog guides are outgoing, talkative people. Especially
NF> when I was younger I tended to be quite shy. Talking to people
NF> I didn't know was somewhat of a challenge for me.
I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't feel as if you have to
apologize for not wanting to talk to every jerk that comes up to you and
asks questions about your dog, or how you do things or anything else.
As long as we are not abusive to the general public, I think that our
blindness should not be allowed to take away our right to be who we are.
So don't be intimidated because some other blink thinks that we should
be nice to everyone that comes along.
We each have to be who we are, and those of us who enjoy talking to
people should not judge those of us who don't.
I usually stay out of these threads that go on and on and on, but I
really felt that you were being jumped on, and as a shy person myself,
and as one who values privacy above almost anything else, I felt
compelled to say something.
Paula
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Paula.Mack
Internet: Paula.Mack@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgPaula.Mack@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Paula Mack) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15376
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DD> Once on the bus, I went back to what I was doing but there were
DD> a couple of people who wanted to talk about the dog. Since I
DD> was concentrating on what I was doing, I didn't hear them
DD> clearly. Finally, one of them shook me and told me to answer
DD> his questions. Otherwise he would talk to the bus authorities
DD> to see if such people who wouldn't share the information about
DD> their wonderful dogs could be kept off the bus.
DD> I tried just giving short answers, but this man and his friends
DD> just would not leave me alone so I turned off the BNS and
DD> talked to them because I sure couldn't get anything done.
But Diana, wouldn't it have been better to have changed seats or to alet
the driver to the fact that you were being harrassed by other
passengers? I just don't think people have the right to vilate the
privacy of others in that way. And certainly, they had no right to
shake you. What I would have probably said to them, I can not say here.
Paula
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Paula.Mack
Internet: Paula.Mack@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgDonna.Siren@p19.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Donna Siren) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15380
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DD> rude but the point I am making is that I do think we have to try harder.
DD> We have to dress better. Our work needs to be perfect, not just acceptable
DD> if we want to get ahead because there is a lot of compatition out there.
I tried to explain this to someone a few weeks ago when I was at a
clothes party. Two of my friends and my cousin were there and I
trust all three, but when I would try on a blouse and ask them how
they liked it, one would say they didn't like the way it looked on
me, one would say she loved it and a couple were undecided. Then
someone would say "if you like it, buy it". I tried to explain
that just because I liked something--liked the way it fit, didn't
mean that it looked good on me. I did finally find something that
everybody agreed on, but it was frustrating. I mean, when your
friends don't agree, who do you believe?
Donna
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.19!Donna.Siren
Internet: Donna.Siren@p19.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.orgNancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15386
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Diana,
The experience you had on the bus while trying to use the BNS would
have frustrated me. I sometimes bring my 4-track player in my
backpack and run headphones to it so that I can listen to a
textbook or even to just a normal, for fun type book. It helps to
kill time on the half hour to downtown and the half hour back, plus
time on buses when I need to transfer.
However, I am not entitled to read on the bus, though others are
allowed that privilege. I either get questions dealing with the
dog or "What are you listening to?" I may not hear the questioner
the first time, and most get real annoyed when they have to repeat
themselves. Finally I gave up trying to read while on the bus.
Here is an example of how blind people are treated differently than
sighted people. A couple of weeks ago I was at a restaurant with
several friends. After dinner we all stood outside and chatted.
Somehow or other I started chasing a friend of mine around the
parking lot. I think he said something that I wanted to hit him
for, and so I went after him. Now he is sighted and my vision is
of the kind that is just enough to get me into trouble. But we
were having fun. He would head straight for poles and then veer
off at the last moment. I almost ran into two poles, but didn't.
I finally got him and got mmy revenge.
Anyway, I thought nothing of this situation. We were having fun,
and no one was harmed. We were just playing, right!
Apparently, however, two people were really offended by this
situation. A restaurant employee was gonna call the cops because
he/she thought I was in dangerr. And an observer from the group we
had dinner with was really offended, guessing I suppose that my
friend was really trying to hurt me. Neither of these individuals
mentioned this to me, but they told yet another friend of mine a
few days later. This friend set them straight, and I appreciate
that; but I ask you this ... Would anyone have even cared (or
thought anything of it) if both people involved were sighted? I
bet not.
If I wasn't complaining and my husband, who was watching all this,
wasn't complaining, whose business is it anyhow?
All I ever want is to be treated like a normal person. This means
expecting me to act in normal ways, sure; expecting me to meet the
same requirements in the workplace or wherever. But this also
means treating me like a human being. I know my limitations, but I
also know my capabilities. Apparently I ask too much, however!
Anyway, good luck; and sorry this message was so long. I'm
interested in swapping stories with you (or anyone else) about
problems with the public and how they were handled. Perhaps I will
learn something from these discussions, and perhaps my comments
will help someone else.
Sheesh, this message is long. Take care.
-> MegaMail v2.01 #0:If there is a God, why was Alien Nation canceled
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!605!Nancy.Feldman
Internet: Nancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.orgNancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman) (05/06/91)
Index Number: 15398
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I try my best, but I am not perfect.
And you are right, of course; we must try harder, dress better,
look better, be closer to perfect than others. If we don't, we
will never satisfy the majority of the sighted with whom we work,
play or even just encounter in day-to-day travel.
As an example, I rarely eat barbecued ribs in a restaurant, and
here is why. I have seen my sighted companions enjoying their
barbecued ribs and making a huge mess of themselves. Others at the
table will laugh and point, saying something liike: "Gee, Dan, you
must have really enjoyed those ribs!" But when a blind friend of
mine made a similar mess while eating barbecued ribs one person at
the table obwserved in a stage whisper to his neighbor: "It is
such a shame that these blind people aren't taught table manners
before they are released into the public." That about did it for
me. Unless I am with people I know very well, no barbecued ribs
for me!!!!!
And yes, this is a bad way to handle the situation, I know. But it
is sometimes necessary to make concessions, I suppose.
As for the woman who implied that you didn't know how to comb your
hair, I would have most likely made some unkind remark, pulled out
my brush and brushed my hair. Not that it would have done any
good, admittedly; the wind would just mess it up later, but just
out of spite.
-> MegaMail v2.01 #0:Consider what I have not said.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!605!Nancy.Feldman
Internet: Nancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.orgmgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax) (05/10/91)
Index Number: 15468 In article <19101@bunker.isc-br.com> Paula.Mack@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org writes: >Index Number: 15308 > >As long as we are not abusive to the general public, I think that our >blindness should not be allowed to take away our right to be who we are. >So don't be intimidated because some other blink thinks that we should >be nice to everyone that comes along. > >We each have to be who we are, and those of us who enjoy talking to >people should not judge those of us who don't. > >Paula > Yes! Except that there are even times when being abusive to the general public might be acceptable. Politeness is certainly preferable, but if it is a choice between being rude and being silenced, I am not going to judge. Paula, don't let yourself ever get intimidated, and you'll lead all of us, sighted and blind alike! marshall /****************************************************************************/ /* Marshall Gene Flax '89 (609)258-6739 mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU */ /* c/o Jack Gelfand|Psychology Dept|Princeton University|Princeton NJ 08544 */ /****************************************************************************/
Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Margo Downey) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15561
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi, Nancy. am replying to two of your messages at the same time.
You talked about the chase around the parking lot at the restaurant and how
some folks were offended. Many folks seem to think we live in a different
world--that the blind live in a different world--and some people treat us as
thought we live in a different world and must be treated accordingly. The
same responses or actions that we and friends might have don't "look" the same
to someone else--because, probably, that person feels insecure and
uncomfortable. I am very glad that your friend set those two folks straight
on the matter. However, I do wish they would have talked with you. It seems
that folks are afriad to talk to us about things. But, then, that's aproblem
with society in general--people are afraid to talk with people about
beyond-the-surface stuff.
And, you said that you shouldn't have to be angelic because you're blind--I
agree with you--I'm certainly not. However, I do think that everybody--not
just blind folks--ought to work on carrying ourselves with more joy and humor
and smiles. And, Nancy, that's not always easy--I can't do that all the time,
either.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!60!Margo.Downey
Internet: Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.orgAustin.Seraphin@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Austin Seraphin) (05/14/91)
Index Number: 15576
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Yup. I'm 13, and I see it also. Example... Hey everyone in
school, here's how you can make an alarm (make EVERYONE in the
halls go crazy, and do a lot of other horrorible stuff all in one
easy step.) Go on a root. Let's take the root to my Science class
for example. Now, when I'm walking along with my cane, I'll hit
the wall with it and turn left and go into the Science wing.
Simple enough. Ok, I'm walking down the stairs (behind the wall),
and am comming for the wall. Everyone around goes
"Wall!!! Waaaaaaallllll!!! Watch out... Wall! Austin... Hey...
Are you allright?" Well that just a minute in the life of...
Well seeya all later
P.S. This is a true story for those of you who don't think this is
possible. Btw, don't you hate those types who make remarks about
you? I bopped one of 'em with my cane and he was in PAIN!
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!715!Austin.Seraphin
Internet: Austin.Seraphin@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.orgMargo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Margo Downey) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15687
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Willie, I'm not proud ot know anyone who belongs to a group who hates other
people. all I am saying is that blind people, as well as other groups,
whether they be majority/minority, etc., have thoughts and attitudes about
others which are positive or negative, and blind people are a crossection of
the general population, and I also stated that blind people aren't in a
different "world" than non-disabled people--non-blind--sighted people. that's
what I meant. If you read my story, you would note that a person--sighted
person--thought that somehow we wouldn't do the same thing sighted people
do--and that person was surprised that someone who was blind would join the
KKK. I also mentioned examples of stereotyping by lots of people. That's
all. I am surprised that Bill, a blind person, would have been surprised that
a blind person would join the KKK. that's all.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!60!Margo.Downey
Internet: Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15696
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DD> On another point David, I would like to talk with you about
DD> this NLS Database. Could you tell me how the best way to do
DD> that might be? Could I call you at work or something?
You can call me at work, or anyone else for that matter. The number is 301-659-
9314.
... David Andrews
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgMargo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Margo Downey) (05/21/91)
Index Number: 15742
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
I think part of "public relations" is the attitude of folks. Let me add here
that I think, and this is part of attitude, that many folks are afraid of
becoming blind and just can't imagine how they'd do something. Some who feel
this way want to learn from others how they do things and accept it--as you
say--and some of them put their fears and feelings in a way as to
stereotype/project onto others.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!60!Margo.Downey
Internet: Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.orgDiana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Diana Dawne) (05/31/91)
Index Number: 15901
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Yesterday I had another of my interesting experiences. A german woman
got on the bus and spied me and Venture. I was asusual, working with
the BNS, and so didn't pay to much attention to her but she did to me.
In very broken english she asked me if I knew it was against the law for
me to bring the dog on the bus. Then she went on and on about how she
felt that the handicapped shouldn't be allowed in public places because
just the sight of them was so disgusting but I think she got the
attention of all when she said: "poor widdle tting. You be better off
when you're dead.
I don't know what gets into me some times but my mouth oppened and out
it came.
"Who'll be better off," I asked "You or me?"
"You will," hissed the woman amidst laughter.
"Well, I said, I think Hittler had things like that it mind, but
fortunately for me, he never made it over here. Also he was just a
little before my time. Everyone left but as she left the bus, she was
going on in an undertone how really bratty us upstarts are today.
* EZ 1.30 *
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Diana.Dawne
Internet: Diana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgDavid.Goldfield@p0.f1089.n261.z1.fidonet.org (David Goldfield) (05/31/91)
Index Number: 15912
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi Diana. I am cheating, this is Susan. I used up all my time this
evening, so I am using David's time now. What husbands won't do for
their wives.(grin).
Diana, I am responding to your message about the woman on the bus
wishing you dead and all that other senseless garbage she said.I think
you need to rethink some of the things you repeated on this echo. It is
totally unfair to equate all cranky german ladies to Hitler, just as it
is unfair to equate all blind people to the helpless image of the past.
Now I know what you're going to say,"I was angry and it just slipped out
of my mouth". That's Ok, because I tend to loose it myself when people
piss me off. What I do take issue with is that you found it neccessary
to tell the story on the board. It was unclear whether you were writing
this to show her ignorance with such terrible statement,or were you
trying to tell us about a whitty comeback. I try whenever possible to
break the stereotypes this world creates. I would defend you to the
cranky German lady if I could, just as I am defending her heritage now.
Take care and talk with you soon. If anyone wishes to respond, please
direst them to me, not David
Susan Goldfield
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1089.0!David.Goldfield
Internet: David.Goldfield@p0.f1089.n261.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16111
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
SG> People with
SG> Down's Syndrome--we'll call them Mongoloids, does this term stay
SG> the same? It was functional, we all knew who it meant to
SG> represent. Do I agree with it? NO
Nor do I. The term originated in the fact that many (most? all?)
people with Down's Syndrome have a slight Asiatic-looking slant to
their eyes; it's not accurate, as it implies an ethnicity that "ain't
necessarily so".
Ditto the word "crippled". It's just not accurate.
SG> Until we can fully educate society, we might have to do some
SG> terminology juggling, so to speak.
When we do that, we are accepting the old word as pejoratives; I think
it would be more effective to teach society that the words are NOT
pejorative and that the condition is NOT the basis for a slur.
... "This is English up with which I will not put." - Winston Churchill
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Jeff.Salzberg
Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16113
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
SG> I have heard the term Mentally challenged before and do not use
SG> it professionally. Aren't we all mentally challenged?
Thank you. "Mentally challenged" and "physically challenged" are two
of the more obnoxious examples of Politically Correct socio-babble.
I hope I die before I ever stop being mentally challenged; if I'd lose
a little weight, though, I might be less physically challenged.
Hey, maybe the blind should be referred to as "differently sighted"....
Susan, we may not be as far apart on this as I thought.
... "No good deed goes unpunished." - C. B. Luce
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Jeff.Salzberg
Internet: Jeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgEric.Bohlman@p1.f778.n115.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Bohlman) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16117
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
SG> form.<grin> Let me propose this question to you: How would you
SG> like to revert back to all the old terminology. People with
SG> Down's Syndrome--we'll call them Mongoloids, does this term stay
SG> the same? It was functional, we all knew who it meant to
SG> represent. Do I agree with it? NO
You have to consider the history of how a term came about. For example,
"mongoloid" came from a ludicrous paper that Down wrote entitled "on an ethnic
classification of idiots." Down's thesis was that ethnic groups could be
ordered into a "great chain of being" and that "subnormal" individuals who
belonged to "higher" ethnic groups were essentially "stuck" at the "level" of
the "lower" groups. Apparently one boy who had mental disabilities stemming
from trisomy of chromosome 21 had some characteristics that reminded Down of
Orientals (the kid was very imitative, and at the time imitativeness was part
of the European stereotype of Orientals), and the label stuck. Down
also tried to associate other forms of mental disability with different
disfavored ethnic groups, but little of it stuck.
Anyway, the point was that "mongolism" was INTENDED to mean "having the
characteristics of someone who belongs to an inferior and hated group" and was
therefore a both poisoned and poisonous term. (I actually think it should
simply be called "trisomy 21" since I don't think that Down deserves to be
honored for his racism, and his intentions were nearly all bad.)
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!115!778.1!Eric.Bohlman
Internet: Eric.Bohlman@p1.f778.n115.z1.fidonet.org