Nancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman) (04/25/91)
Index Number: 15198
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
About 16 months ago I went off to Leader Dogs and got a beautiful
Golden Retriever named Barney. He and I work very well together,
and I am very happy with him. But I have noticed an interesting
problem and I'm just wondering how other dog guide users handle it.
Barney, like most dog guides, is a very attractive dog. When out
traveling he receives many compliments and I am asked many
questions about him. The most common of these, of course, is "May
I pet him?"
Leader Dogs' instructors advised that one should always be polite
to the public, as the public funds most of these schools and we
want to make the public feel we are friendly and appreciate what
they do. I do appreciate it, but ...
I can't always be cherful and talkative. I also dislike being
interrupted while siting in a restaurant having a quiet
conversation with a friend. I find it difficult to be cheerful and
outgoing the day I have gotten two teeth pulled and am taking the
bus home feeling dizzy and quite sick to my stomach.
I don't always feel like answering questions. I know this must
sound terrible, but it can also be difficult. While doing in-depth
research I can lose my train of thought when someone comes up to
ask: "What kind of dog is that?" I appreciate their interest, I
really do; I guess I just wanted to complain a little. My sighted
friends laugh when we go places, because we are alwways being
interrupted by someone wanting to know about the dog. But I think
it annoys them, too.
So, am I a terrible person? <Grin> Maybe I should hold weekly
question and answer sessions about Barney. Whatcha think? Are
there any easy answers to this problem? Do others even consider
this a problem?
-> MegaMail v2.01 #0:Lumpy and grumpy and proud of it!
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Internet: Nancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.orgWilliam.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (04/25/91)
Index Number: 15205
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
errible person? <Grin> Maybe I should hold weekly
NF> question and answer sessions about Barney. Whatcha think? Are
NF> there any easy answers to this problem? Do others even consider
NF> this a problem?
Nancy,
I would be very surprised to hear that this wasn't a problem for
any of us guide dog users! This is actually more of a problem for me
now than it had been for the almost 12 years I worked old Strider, as my
new dog is so full of love and exhuberance, he seems to attract
attention from bystanders beyond anything I ever experienced before.
I only wish I had a solution for you, but not only am I still
looking for one myself, I vary in my response to the inquisitive most
every time they approach me! As you said, it is most bothersome when
you are in a restaurant and someone interrupts your conversation with
their questions, and I have admittedly been somewhat short in response
at times in this case. Likewise, I have actually had people reach out
and go to pet LeeRoy as I was working him down the sidewalk, and a
couple of these times I was rather abrupt with my "Yo man, he's
working!" I'm not proud of this, but even accounting for the ignorance
of the general public to us and our companions, this strikes me as being
beyond stupid! As I've told many people, I never met a blind person
before I was one, but I am sure that even I as a sighted person had more
sense than to reach out and pet a guide dog as it was doing its thing!
Ok, ok, now that I got that off my chest, and I suppose this is
the best place to do those things, I will remember to do the right thing
and say, the next time it happens, "Excuse me sir or madam (Yes, I'll
say sir or madam even though most likely the gender will be obvious,
just because it might cause them to wonder how blind people recognize
sex!) would you please not bother my dog while he is working? I am glad
that you recognize a fine animal when you see one, and I'm sure that he
considers you an outstanding creature too, but he is busy with his job
right now."
If, however, my next encounter is in a restaurant, I'll just
reach for my wallet, say, "Oops, forgot to bring my charge card!", and
then offer them a seat right by the check to discuss guide dogs and how
we use them to get around.
Willie
... Like a bat out of Bellevue!
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Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgcmfaltz@phoenix.princeton.edu (Christine Marie Faltz) (05/01/91)
Index Number: 15272 William Wilson is generally a thoughtful person with regard to his blindness, but his intention to say "Excuse me, sir or madam," simply because he fears a sighty's astonishment at his knowledge of his/her gender is more than disturbing. Why not just say "Excuse me" without any direct personal references? That would be wonderful--yet another stereotype to deal with--"Blind people can't distinguish between men and women." No, thinks; we have enough educating to do as it is, enough falsehoods to eradicate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Poor is the person | Christine Faltz | | whose permission | 33 Prospect Ave. | | depends upon the | Princeton, NJ 08540 | | perceptions of others. | "Who is John Galt?" | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15660
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
To: cmfaltz@phoenix.princeton.edu (Christine Marie Faltz)
CM> William Wilson is generally a thoughtful person with
CM> regard to his blindness, but his intention to say "Excuse
CM> me, sir or madam," simply because he fears a sighty's
CM> astonishment at his knowledge of his/her gender is more than
CM> disturbing. Why not just say "Excuse me" without any direct
CM> personal references?
Christine Marie,
That message, madam, was what is called a joke! I seldomly really
give gender acknowledgement when I reply to a person, and when I do, it
is usually with sarcasim in my voice!
I guess it is because I remember the days when terms like sir and madam
were used to show respect!
By the way, you want to talk disturbing, I find it more than a tad
disturbing that the person who was so outraged by our use of the word
blink in this echo can refer to people as "sighty's" without batting an
eye!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgmgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax) (05/21/91)
Index Number: 15727 In article <15660@handicap.news> William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org writes: >Index Number: 15660 > >Christine Marie, > That message, madam, was what is called a joke! I seldomly really >give gender acknowledgement when I reply to a person, and when I do, it >is usually with sarcasim in my voice! >I guess it is because I remember the days when terms like sir and madam >were used to show respect! > By the way, you want to talk disturbing, I find it more than a tad >disturbing that the person who was so outraged by our use of the word >blink in this echo can refer to people as "sighty's" without batting an >eye! Two quick points: 1) I believe that it is common, when one is making sarcastic comments, to include the characters :-) in the text. (The punctuation marks approximate a smiling face on its side.) Another common approach is to precede the sarcastic comment with the notation "[sarcasm on]" and follow it with the notation "[sarcasm off]". Such conventions solve many misunderstandings before they begin, and save bandwidth for more serious concerns. 2) It is not surprising, nor is it inonsistent, that a person who has been blink for decades would find the word 'blink' unacceptable and yet use the word 'sighty'. The relationship between the two words is not symmetric, because the relationship between the two groups is different. The sighted have tried to define and control the lives of blind people for centuries. The blind have not tried to do the reverse to the sighted. It's not a symmetric power relation; it is oversimplifying and naive to assume that the two words should be treated the same. marshall /****************************************************************************/ /* Marshall Gene Flax '89 (609)258-6739 mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU */ /* c/o Jack Gelfand|Psychology Dept|Princeton University|Princeton NJ 08544 */ /****************************************************************************/
NEWMARK@auvm.auvm.edu (Gavroche) (05/22/91)
Index Number: 15752 In article <15727@handicap.news>, mgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax) says: >2) It is not surprising, nor is it inonsistent, that a person who has >been blink for decades would find the word 'blink' unacceptable and yet >use the word 'sighty'. The relationship between the two words is not >symmetric, because the relationship between the two groups is different. >The sighted have tried to define and control the lives of blind people >for centuries. The blind have not tried to do the reverse to the >sighted. It's not a symmetric power relation; it is oversimplifying and >naive to assume that the two words should be treated the same. > >marshall *Flame ON* this analogy is the exact same one given to claim that it is all right for a black person to call a white person "Honky" while it isnt alright for a white person to call a black person "Nigger" When in actuality there is no difference. They are both racist words and neither would be used by anybody with an ounce of decency and respect. I am Jewish, but just because somebody calls me a "kike" doesnt give me the right to call names back. That would just be stooping to their level. Why would I want to do that? *Flame OFF* A better analogy might be the following: One often finds African Americans calling each other "Nigger, boy, etc" Jews are often seen telling jokes about themselves Groups often use terms and jokes invented by others as disparaging amongst themselves as a source of pride. In a way it is saying: We have enough self-esteem that we can laugh at these words. They dont bother us. >From what I can gather, "Blink" is similar to this. There are Jews and African Americans who claim the "self-deprecating humor" can be taken to a harmful extreme. (e.g. In Living Color (?) Jap Jokes (?)) It also seems there are those who believe "Blink jokes" is also an extreme. Calling someone a "sighty" can be classified under one of two categories: 1) Revenge. We are discriminated against, called names, so we will retaliate likewise. This *should* be avoided, it is not something to be proud of. 2) A mere abbreviation of the phrase "A person with the ability to see" I think you might agree that is a little bit longer and a little bit more awkward to say. "Sighty" is a lot easier. I definitely dont mind being called a "Sighty" as long as it is meant merely as a classification device.
William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16120
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
To: mgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax)
MG> 1) I believe that it is common, when one is making sarcastic
MG> comments, to include the characters :-) in the text. (The
MG> punctuation marks approximate a smiling face on its side.)
Marshall,
Actually, the use of the punctuation marks :-) to denote a
smiley face, is considered by many on this side of the gate to be not
only demeaning, signifying that the poster of the message considers the
audience incapable of recognizing sarcasim when it hits them in the face,
but in a situation where most of the people are using speech synthesis,
and thus probably have the pronounciation of punctuation marks off, a
waste of 3 columns in a message!
MG> relationship between the two groups is different. The sighted
MG> have tried to define and control the lives of blind people for
MG> centuries. The blind have not tried to do the reverse to the
MG> sighted. It's not a symmetric power relation; it is
MG> oversimplifying and naive to assume that the two words should
MG> be treated the same.
Marshall, and I find it ironic that you, who has posted in many of your
messages a disclaimer saying that you are "Not Handicapped", are now
telling me what a blind person has the right to say or assume, or even
how the sighted world treats us as blind people!
You can justify Christine Marie's use of the word Sightee and her
disapproval of the word blink by bringing up the fact that she has been
blind for sooo long, and I won't even say a word about how some of us
blinks might find that condesending, and I'll even allow you to call me
naive ane and accuse me of over simplifying the comparison of the two
terms, but I do suggest you go back to putting your disclaimer on the
top of your messages, cause I don't want anyone mistaking your opinion
as being one from this side of the visual fence!
Justifying the use of a pejorative term by some people because they are
handicapped is definately not something with which many of us want to be
associated, I assure you!
Willie
... BlinkTalk, Dr. Deb and Silver in Pittsburgh!
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Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.orgGary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16147
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
William,
Have I noticed in Marshall's message that he wants both to condescend
to us because we're blind and defend us because we're blind? He, himself,
says that we have existed in a power relationship with regard to the
sighted and that we've been on the negative side of that relationship.
Unfortunately, in opposing you're position, he then has the timerity to
inflict that same state upon us with himself in (guess which position?).
What I find utterly fascinating about such crypto-totalitarian
positions is the way those imagining themselves superior
hypocritically condemn others for doing exactly the same thing.
There is no attempt at impowerment, here, simply the old "I'm
doing it for you're own good" repressive crap we've heard over
and over again.
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