Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (05/07/91)
Index Number: 15438
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
AH> Why shouldn't a quad be able to take the easy
AH> way out, if he so chooses? Because
AH> it makes gimps look bad? We aren't all the same, and we
AH> handle our situations differently. Some can't handle it at
AH> all. That's their choice - as sentient individuals,
AH> they should be allowed to do
AH> what they think best. *adh*
I agree. I think a well thought out and planned suicide
is a very valid option. I advocated that a year or more ago and
was chastised for harbouring such thoughts. However, public
opinion is changing.
On the other hand the movie did a poor job of convincing
me this guy ever got beyond the depression stage of the grief
process. I would have been more understanding of his actions if
he had given life a chance and tried to make the best of what he
had left. You and I have been around long enough to know
ourselves, our limitations, our abilities, and our feelings
toward death.
I'm replanning my death because the arrangements that I
had made a few years ago were no longer valid. I'm now divorced,
I own less, etc.
I have the means to take my own life. Within easy
access. All my friends and relatives know my plans include
suicide and they accept that as my right. They also don't expect
me to exercise that option in the near future.
So, what it boils down too is making an intelligent and
informed decision.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Joe.Chamberlain
Internet: Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.orgHarry.London@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Harry London) (05/09/91)
Index Number: 15465
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
JC> That's great! What kind of vehicle? What kind of
JC> controls? What is the BraunChair Topper?
Thevehicle is our family car--4-dr. Olds Delta. Hand controls for brake
and accelerator very straightforward, with horn and dimmer in the bar.
Braun Chair topper is basically a clam-shell like box on top of the car
that at push of the down button, opens, sends down a heavy hairpin sort
of rod which captures the wheelchair seat. Then at the push of the up
button, it lifts the chair by the seat which automatically folds it, and
then when it reaches a certain height. turns chair on its side and stores
it, as the clam shell closes. I have to place the hairpin on the seat,
then when the chair comes down I have to position myself to force the
seat down, so the chair opens. The other night a woman who'd been
watching an exit, unobserved by me, came over and raved about it. I am
now much more famous as a managing paraplegic than I ever was in ordinary
working/living. Best,
Harry
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1000!Harry.London
Internet: Harry.London@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.orgKeith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Jones) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16217
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
I have wanted to respond to this for over a month. I read it in
Phoenix just prior to moving to Cleveland. Finally found this echo in
Cleveland. Finally ran into this message again.
In college, I had to take an acting class in which I portrayed the
Dreyfuss character. I had no problem understanding his problems or
feelings. However, even then I was not capable of understanding his
motives, though I thought I did. Only now do I believe I understand him
a little better.
I believewe, as human beings, are comprised of three aspects-- The
physical, the mental, and the spiritual.
For us, the physical aspects of our lives are devastated by SCI---
the inability to walk, bowel and bladder problems, sexual dysfunction,
spasticity, pain, pressure sores, and other assorted complications.
Additionally, our emotional state of mind is shattered in that our
whole self concept must change. There are few accidents or diseases that
strip a person of their identity as brutally and as quickly as SCI.
My life. I lost my job, my apartment, my car, my girlfriend (and
ability to have sex), my friends, my pets, my hobbies,etc. I was no
longer an employee, living independently, a driver, a man(?), a friend,
a pet owner, a ballplayer, an exercise enthusiast, a frisbee wizard, or
a juggler. Who am I?
Well I got married (and divorced), learned how to drive, got new
friends, got a cat, moved out by myself, went back to school and
graduated, raced wheelchairs competitively, got engaged (and broke it
off), and found new hobbies. I readjusted, found myself (or so I
thought) and moved on with my life.
Then came more problems---Chronic pain, a bad back, and increased
spasticity. Now I cannot go to school, use my degree to work, I cannot
race, I am barely able to live independently, I lost more friends as I
slowed down, and I would not think of becoming romantically involved
with anyone out of fairness to them. Who am I?
Back to the Dreyfuss character. He could not cope We don't get a
good look inside his mind. I can only surmise what caused him to reach
his decision. I do know that no two people with SCI have identical
physical problems just as no two people have the same emotional makeup.
one amn's ceiling is another man's floor. That is why one person is able
surmount tremendous obstacles and is motivated to greatness, whereas
another person commits suicide over seemingly trivial problems. Does
this mean one person is stronger inherently than another? Possibly, but
I think it goes much deeper.
I am a guy who struggles to keep his independence, lives alone and in
constant pain. I swim ,read, watch TV,use my computer, and occasionally
get out. This is what I am physically and mentally but it ignores who I
am spiritually.
Spiritually, I am a child of God put on this earth to do his will
according to His plan. I was blessed with God-given talents and
abilities. When some of those were lost, God allowed me to find others I
never knew I had. I focus on what is left, not what is lost. This is
poisitive or God-directed thought. Yet it is through this process that I
have realized how much of my self concept has been dictated by physical
and mental achievements. I now believe that true happiness and peace of
mind can only be achieved 9in the spiritual area. I believe if I make
the best of what I've got to do God's will, I will have a special place
in God's heart. I believe He asks for no more and no less.
The Dreyfuss character has lived his whole life on the physical
plane (his work as a sculptor and his physical relationship). He has no
inclination to develop his mental abilities except to achieve his
destruction. Most disturbing is that he is obviously spiritually
bankrupt.
Certainly all of us can relate to his feelings of powerlessness.
Everything is being done to him. The onle way he can exercise any
control or power over his life is to decide that he does not want that
kind of life. Sadly, he can only rely on himself. He has no faith in
God. Therefore, he must play God.
What I have said is controversial and raises ambivalent feelings in
myself. I wrote a paper in college for as class in Death and Dying
before my pain problems and my search for spiritual fulfillment. In it I
said I would eventually take my own life when I could no longer be of
use to myself or others (do God's will really). I strongly believe in
the quality of life v. the quantity of life. Medical technology has
gotten to the point where people are kept alive sometimes for no
apparent reason other than because our culture considers life sacred and
that human beings should be kept alive at any cost, I totally disagree.
It is dehumanizing. It amounts to senseless cruelty at times. It allows
doctors to play God.
I believe God is loving and compassionate. I don't believe he wants
people to suffer. Suffer is a subjective term, however. What is God's
answer? I don't know. I do know that I have lived my life as a fighter
and accomplished much. But life is rough for me now. I do not wish to
continue living if it gets any rougher. I would no longer be living
then, I would just be surviving. I don't believe God intended for life
to be that way. So if I take my life, am I playing God. I like to think
not, but I do wonder.
(to be continued)
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!3!Keith.Jones
Internet: Keith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.orgKeith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Jones) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16218
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
(continued)
I do not know what the future holds for me. I may someday take my
life. But for now, I think I will continue to trust God. He is
responsible for getting me this far. Without God I would be dead. With
God, I have hope. I try to live my life one day at a time doing God's
will For some that may be writing a book that affects many. For me, it
may just be a phone call or this message. As long as I try to do God's
will on a daily basis, I will be okay.
In conclusion, the Dreyfuss character raises some very thought
provoking and soul-searching issues. I can condone or condemn his
actions. Yet at the same time I can do neither. It is his life. All I
can do is try to understand and in doing so, it has helped me understand
myself a little better. Thanks for the topic.
-Keith-
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!3!Keith.Jones
Internet: Keith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.orgKeith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Jones) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16219
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
-> I have the means to take my own life. Within easy
-> access. All my friends and relatives know my plans include
-> suicide and they accept that as my right. They also don't expect me
-> to exercise that option in the near future.
I am curious as to what your means to carry your plan out is as I too
have considered the same option. I want to do it with no mistake. I
don't want to end up brain dead or on a life support system.
I am in no hurry to do this either as you may have gathered from my
previous messages. But if and when I want to do it right. I do know that
there is an author named Humphries(?) who puts out a book on the most
successful ways to commit suicide which many people find appalling. I
am sure many people will find this message appalling also. My apologies
to you folks, but it's my life.
-Keith-
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!3!Keith.Jones
Internet: Keith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.orgJoe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16223
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
KJ> In conclusion, the Dreyfuss character raises some very thought
KJ> provoking and soul-searching issues. I can condone or condemn his
KJ> actions. Yet at the same time I can do neither. It is his life. All I
KJ> can do is try to understand and in doing so, it has helped me understand
KJ> myself a little better. Thanks for the topic.
I like your reply. It is thoughtful and exxploring. I
think the purpose of the movie was meant to be provocative. I
think the author, director, and actors, had the intentions of
creating a controversy, of getting the audience to think about
their attitudes, and to focus on the moral delemna.
People will go to great lengths to ensure a quick death
to an injured and suffering animal. If animals have rights, then
why not humans? This question can only be answered after great
thought by each individual involved.
A friend, a quad drug abuser, recently entered the
hospital in critical condition. The attending doctor asked if he
wanted to live. My friend says he had the choice and choose
life. It brought him into touch with the reality that he was
killing himself and the doctor was willing to let it happen if that
was what he wanted.
I think things are changing quitely and some doctors are
willing to be supportive in letting a critically ill person die
peacefully. I don't see many getting actively involved in
euthansia or assisted suicide. My general feeling is that if
someone really looked they would find a doctor to quietly supply
the means for a comfortable death.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Joe.Chamberlain
Internet: Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.orgKeith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Jones) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16224
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
-> I like your reply. It is thoughtful and exxploring. I
I am glad. I put a lot of thought into it. Probably more than I have
put into anything since my college papers over two years ago. I am a bit
rusty,
-> People will go to great lengths to ensure a quick death
-> to an injured and suffering animal. If animals have rights, then why
-> not humans? This question can only be answered after great
They shoot horses don't they?
-> A friend, a quad drug abuser, recently entered the
-> hospital in critical condition. The attending doctor asked if he
-> wanted to live. My friend says he had the choice and choose
-> life. It brought him into touch with the reality that he was
-> killing himself and the doctor was willing to let it happen if that
-> was what he wanted.
I am not sure what I would choose myself when the chips were really
down. Then again I don't have to worry about that. At least not today.
-> I think things are changing quitely and some doctors are
-> willing to be supportive in letting a critically ill person die
-> peacefully. I don't see many getting actively involved in
-> euthansia or assisted suicide. My general feeling is that if
-> someone really looked they would find a doctor to quietly supply the
-> means for a comfortable death.
My gut feeling is that in the not too distant future we will see a
legalization of euthansia provided the Roe v. Wade decision is not
overturned (which could quite possibly happen). I believe that as the
baby boomers reach old age and medical technology increases life
expectancy, more and more people will begin to question quality of life
considerations. I think the American public will demand it. The only
ones with anything to lose are the doctors and nursing home owners (many
times one and the same). And we know the AMA is a very powerful lobby.
Time will tell.
-Keith-
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!3!Keith.Jones
Internet: Keith.Jones@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.orgJoe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Chamberlain) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16225
[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]
KJ> I am curious as to what your means to carry your plan out is as I
too
KJ> have considered the same option. I want to do it with no mistake. I
KJ> don't want to end up brain dead or on a life support system.
I don't think I can share that with you in a public echo
nor would I be willing to advise you privately. This is a matter
for you to decide.
I hope you understand my decision.
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Joe.Chamberlain
Internet: Joe.Chamberlain@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org