Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15352
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
You need to subscribe to BRS. Then get in touch with nls and they will
give you access.
BRS Information Technologies
8000 Westpark Drive
McLean, Virginia 22102
(703) 442-0900
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3800!6!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Lawrence@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Lawrence) (05/04/91)
Index Number: 15378
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
MD>Tim, why can't the NLS people lock out portions of the database they
MD>don't want us to see? I am sure there is confidential
MD>information in there--but, they could, it would seem, block out
MD>some information. Of course, we don't know how they have it set up.
Margo I think they could, but the question of the day is will they?
I dthink the problem is really not one of locking out confidential information
from the database, I'm willing to bet there's an easy way of doing that.
The problem in my opinion is that the people who decide all of this
believe that the majority of blind people out there don't have
computers, and wouldn't need access to the database anyway.
Well some time they should drop in on Blinktalk, and take a look
around, maybe they'd see things different.
REgards Tim.
* EZ 1.33 * Any given program when running is obsolete.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Tim.Lawrence
Internet: Tim.Lawrence@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f998.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (05/06/91)
Index Number: 15406
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
the question is not wether nls computers can be accessed by the
blind patron but rather, how blind patrons can access b r s at a
reduced rate or for free since the tax payers are under the
impression this service is free anyway to the blind. if you were
to allow access directly to the nls computers, they would be
totally tied up by the patrons, hence b r s and the reason why they
are used by nls. this would be a giant computer undertaking to
nightmere to reorganize data distribution both to the libraries and
to the patrons and we all know about budgets these days. i am
really surprised though why a "free" service such as nls had the
nerve to make b r s available to the blind at their exorbident
rates (sorry for the spelling!) my soloution is that nls provide
year end catalogs of "all" their titles and release them to
bulletin board services around the country, i'm sorry willie, i'll
rephrase that, release them to willie!! dan, out of sight, out of
my mind!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!998!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f998.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDiana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Diana Dawne) (05/06/91)
Index Number: 15410 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] >WF>Actually that was exactly my decision, too. And the people from BRS >WF>still phone me now and then to see why I haven't signed on the system. > Tim, would it draw a lot of attention to this question if a lot of us call and ask about what it takes to axcess the service then decline it when we hear about the high cost. We might make remarks such as "No one has to pay to use the public library why do we." >there responce. I know that this is a private company, but I think that if they realize what a hardship they are creating for us-- actually, the hardship really might be made by us calling them-- I wonder if it might come to someone's attention. >WF>Perhaps your network library could do searching for you. Are they It is not the brightist idea in the world, but I wonder if it would be better than doing nothing. I have some other things in mind, too, and that in concert with them, just might be worthwhile. > I tried to call you this afternoon, but you were out probably chasing pretty women! Big Grin! * EZ 1.30 * -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Diana.Dawne Internet: Diana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (05/06/91)
Index Number: 15418
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Dona,
The man's far more contemptable than that. Way back, about ten or more
years back, a reader actually wrote an artical for the New Republic. His
name was Alan Hewitt, many of us have seen him as the cop on My Favorite
Martian. He was truly p.o.ed about a change in NLS policy about reading
typos in books. The policy used to be to contact the publisher, if
necessary, to find out what should have been written, and this policy had
changed to read whatever's there no matter how misprinted. He got so
involved that the NLS eventually refused to have him read anything. Btw,
all his work was done at AFB.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!90!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Lawrence@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Lawrence) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15684
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
WF>In practical terms, it is not really available to the consumer. My
WF>solution is this. Why doesn't NLS set up a bulletin board in
WF>DC. Blind computer users could call and forward there reference
WF>requests. An NLS staffer could do the searching and package the
WF>data. The only online charges would occur in sending requests
WF>or receiving data. All searching could be offline It may not be
WF>exactly what we want, but it would be a step in the right direction.
That service is already available via your reaginal library.
All you need do is call the library where you receive your
books from, and request a search for a certain title or
author, and in most cases the library staff will search the
database for you.
The only problem I have with this method, is I wonder how
many books I'm missing out on just because I can't access the
database myself.
It seems to me that if Nls was to go as far as to set up
a bbs for us to call and request books, then why not go one
step farther and plug the database in to that board.
I think your idea is a good one, if they were to take that
extra step, and have the database on line.
Regards Tim.
* EZ 1.33 *
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Tim.Lawrence
Internet: Tim.Lawrence@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgWarren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo) (05/16/91)
Index Number: 15698
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Are there any truly progressive network libraries in the NLS system
that would consider a BBS.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3800!6!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.orgDiana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Diana Dawne) (05/31/91)
Index Number: 15920
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
For some time we have been discussing the NLS database. to briefly
recap, NLS hat a database that is accessable using your PC. It is
possible using this database to do special searches by topic, book,
catagory, or author. It is also possible to order books using this
database. The problem is that most of us can't use the database because
nls has comtracted with a company BRS to make this available through
their computer service.The difficulty is that there is a $75 sign up
fee, a $12 a month charge whether you use the system or not, and a $25
an hour charge to use the database Now it's my understanding that anyone
can go to the public library and access their database free of charge.
If they feel intidimated by the computer, all they need do is go to the
library staff and ask for assistance.
Tim Lawrence and I called BRS and asked about signing up for this
service. We did not plan to actually sign up but we thought we might be
able to talk with someone who could tell us who to write to and see if
we could nnegotiate something a little more realistic. However, we
discovered that that database is comtroled by a private company Tim
called that "Private company" and discovered that it is the NLS. The
comtact person is a Ms. Jane Mendlebaughm. Tim asked her to call him
and she did. I called and asked that she call me and she finally did
return my call.
She is a pleasant person but she is very forthright about the fact that
she doesn't want to get invulved with the public using that database.
She claims that individuals do have accounts and that people from all
over the world use the database. She insists that they do not get
royalities from users and she believes that in the next one to three
years, patrons will be able to purchase CD's of the database for about
$50
After talking to her, I again called BRS and tried to sign up. This
time, I intended to go through with it but I was told that although
individuals could sign up, they had to be approved by the private
company and I had not been approved. I was again reassured that the
private company gets a royalty of over 75 per cent for the first 50
hours the database is used and 90 per cent thereafter.
When I talked with Ms. Mendlebaughm, she said she knew something about
blink talk. I suggested that she or someone from NLS come on the
comference and offer to answer questions. She very emphatically said no
one would do that. However if anyone wants to call them, they will be
happy to return the phone calls, and spend just as much long distance
time as necessary explaining to each of us individually how the system
works. She did ask me to explain that she would not be available for
the next three weeks as she will be on vacation and when I asked
herwhere she told me in Europe. BRS has recently changed hands, and
they plan to change to another company.
I am a little comfused about what to do. NLS is saying one thing, BRS
is saying something else. Comsidering that library service is supossed
to be free, and also that the government isn't supposed to profit from
its products, it seems something isn't quite right about this situation.
What do you all think and what do you think we should do next?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Diana.Dawne
Internet: Diana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgBeth.Hatch-Alleyne@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Hatch-Alleyne) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15945
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Diana; it seems to me, if I understood you correctly, that NLS is
playing both ends against the middle in dealing with the Database.
If I called my regional library I could get a bibliography of books
by a particular author, or on a particular subject, or particular
genre. It would seem to be in their best interest that we have this
information at our finger tips so that we won't tie up the time of
staff members taking our phone calls and answerering our mail for
those of us who have access to modems. NLS is paid for by the
government, it is free for us to order books and obtain
bibliographies as I mentioned above. If BRS was to run the program,
and then they in turn tell you that NLS is really running the
program and are charging $75.00 for anyone to access the database,
that isn't fair since the library was designed to be a free source
of information and reading for us, the blind individuals who use it.
Perhaps if we all got together and called them enough, if they
realised that a lot of us were really up in arms about it, we could
persuade them to come up with something better. What that is I'm
not sure, but we can at least start by telling them we're unhappy
with the current system, work on it amongst ourselves to think of an
alternative, and go from there. You have been dealing with NLS for
a while, so you have a better sense of what is really going on, but
if I've understood you correctly, the way they are doing things only
hurts us, the blind community, supposedly the people it was created
to serve. Perhaps NLS doesn't want to discuss anything on Blinktalk
precisely because of this fact because there are many of us who do
use the library, and who do care about what happens to our fellow
blind friends. Sorry for the length of this message, when you ask a
writer for her opinion, this is what you get. Looking forward to
your next message, Beth.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!207!Beth.Hatch-Alleyne
Internet: Beth.Hatch-Alleyne@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.orgLloyd.Rasmussen@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Lloyd Rasmussen) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15946
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hello, everyone:
I've been pretty busy and haven't had time to reply to many messages
lately. I have even had to archive a great number of messages without
reading them at all, except those to or from certain authors. But I
think this is a good echo, no matter how big it gets, as long as the
Fido network can handle the traffic. That's what I wonder about this
week, as we are once again not seeing lots of stuff (it's abnormal to
only have 40 new messages/day when we were running over a hundred just
10 days ago.)
Let me give you a bit more information about the BLND database. I
work down the hall from Jane Mandelbaum and see her fairly often. I
discussed Dan Kysor's correspondence with her a few weeks ago.
BLND provides bibliographic information on books in the NLS and
many allied programs. You *cannot* order books on-line through this;
you must deal with your regional or subregional library to order
books. This is a database which is updated quarterly, not an online
interactive system.
I would advise people to forget calling BRS about the BLND
database. According to a network bulletin sent to the network
libraries last week, BRS decided not to submit a bid when the
operation of BLND was put out for competitive bids. Apparently in a
few months it will be available some other way through Telenet, but at
prices similar to the BRS prices. The libraries don't get a discount.
They are accustomed to paying astronomical charges for database
access.
I really doubt that any royalties from the access charges for BLND
are rebated to NLS. This may be the way some of the BRS databases are
run, but it is not my understanding that BLND is furnished under these
conditions.
Letters to Ms. Mandelbaum or Mr. Cylke wouldn't hurt, but I really
don't expect progress to be any faster than what we have been talking
about. NLS currently has advisory committees with consumer
representation concerning collection building activities, audio
equipment, and publications. None of these advisory committees really
fits the "consumer access to bibliographic information" topic.
Both the NFB and ACB have people who meet regularly with NLS to
discuss whatever needs to be discussed. I don't know who you contact
in the ACB's Library Users of America special-interest affiliate. The
last I knew (and probably still), Sharon Gold, president of the NFB of
California, was the chairman of the NFB Committee on Library Services.
Your suggestions have a better chance of being heard when amplified by
a consumer organization.
As always, NLS will have exhibits at both the ACB and NFB
conventions. Judy Dixon and Mr. Cylke will trade places so they can
each attend about half of each convention. I think we do more
information sharing and suggestion taking than displaying of the
latest thing at the NLS exhibit booth, so stop by and talk to us.
I'll be at the NFB convention. Hope to see some of you there.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Lloyd.Rasmussen
Internet: Lloyd.Rasmussen@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgMika.Pyyhkala@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Mika Pyyhkala) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15949
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Hi,
What the databasw will do depends on how it is
designed.
However, there is at least osme sort of tentative plan
to create a North American Database, which would
comprise information from:
NLS, RFB, APHCARL, and other such sources.
I agree that NLS should provide this date free,
particularly its own data, since public libraries
provide card catalogs free, be them electronic or manual.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Mika.Pyyhkala
Internet: Mika.Pyyhkala@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.orgDan.Kysor@f998.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor) (06/04/91)
Index Number: 15956
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
hi lloyd and welcome back to the net. i think this is somewhat of
a complicated issue regarding this database. there has been some
confusion on this conference regarding privacy and the actual
computer networking which must take place in order for all
participating libraries to participate in the national collection.
just the vastness of the participants and the different librarie's
equipment make having a database management company necessary to
handle the networking. it just seems to me if we're only talking
about 180 megs to titles and if there is really a conflict in
"free library" access and data retreaval at such a high costthen
why not put this 180 meg library on disks and defuse this issue.
no one has a problem with releasing this materials. i believe the
year end cats are not copyrighted and the materials could be
released in that fashion and the participating blink talk net bbs's
could handle these files. i really would like to get away from how
these titles are organized say for the year-end format. as far as
ordering, i don't see a fesible way of accomplishing this and i
think some misunderstood my articlelast fall. thanks for
responding to this question. i doubt nls is gaining royalties
either. take care for now... regards dan
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!998!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f998.n203.z1.fidonet.orgDiana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Diana Dawne) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16089
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Dan, what concerns me is the weird way this seems to be handled. The
strangeness may be coming from BRS but it is difinitely strange.
What does concern me is that I have gotten several telephone calls about
it. These calls have come from all over the country and they express
ideas from drop this because we might not get our books to Something
smells rotten go tet it! As you know, I have put my number up a couple
of times, and I am happy to talk with anyone. However, I do wish these
folks would also put their oppinions out for all to see. That is why we
are discussing this problem here.
* EZ 1.30 *
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Diana.Dawne
Internet: Diana.Dawne@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.orgEric.Bohlman@p1.f778.n115.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Bohlman) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16118
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
DK> says... wonder he meant in that letter to my congress man about the
DK> database being made available for the "professional blind?"
Presumably "blind people with money to burn." The BRS rates aren't at all
high for someone using their services "professionally" in the sense of making
money off of the use of the services (i.e. doing research that one gets payed
for, and passing along the BRS cost (along with markup) to the client). Most
of what BRS normally deals with isn't consumer-type information, which means
that the NLS database is out of place there. In the sense that they used it,
they mean "blind people with high ("professional") incomes." I wouldn't have
as many problems with that if similar library access for sighted people were
also restricted to those with "professional" incomes, but that simply isn't
the case. It shouldn't cost a blind person more to do the EXACT SAME THING a
sighted person can do. It would be similar to charging a blind person more
for a restaurant meal and making no sorts of accomodations.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!115!778.1!Eric.Bohlman
Internet: Eric.Bohlman@p1.f778.n115.z1.fidonet.orgWarren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo) (06/22/91)
Index Number: 16353
[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]
Just a word to let folks know that in the May-June issue of Talking
Book Topics is an article entitled "Advisory Group Seeks Suggestions."
The article listd the advisory group members. Those of us who want
online reference service should contact people listed there.
The next advisory council meeting is September 4-6 so there's plenty of
time to get those suggestions in.
Remember--the squeaky wheel get the grease.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3800!6!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org