Verna.Forristal@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Verna Forristal) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16056
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
JW> the beginning and the end of the idea. Nothing beyond that to suggest
JW> Americans should be required to learn signs. Shoot, I go to Mexico and
JW> have an easier time talking with people there. I come home and can't get
JW> someone to give me a pen and paper to write my hamburger order down on.
Could it possibly be that when in Mexico, you look like a foreigner, so they
don't expect you to know the language? Unfortunately, in America, everyone is
expected to know the language. Do you have any idea how many Americans have
never met a deaf person? They don't expect anyone in a hamburger joint to be
deaf because it just doesn't occur to them. It probably takes a long time to
get the point across because the first assumption is not that you are deaf,
but that you are just messing with their mind or something.
You know, James, even though my daughter has learned a little sign language,
she has never actually met a deaf person. I had a VERY hard time convincing
her that a deaf person does not have better vision because they are deaf. She
has been taught that blind people have better hearing than sighted people. I
don't know the facts on this, but I suspect that the blind don't really hear
better, but rather that they pay attention to what they are hearing, thereby
seeming to hear better.
I really think that Americans could be much better educated in the area on
unseen handicaps. I think that the reason there is so much apathy in the area
of Americans learning sign is because so few Americans actually know deaf
people. Just hypothesis here..I don't want to anger anyone..but perhaps if
some of the deaf people who are insistent on segregating themselves from the
hearing world were to interact more with the hearing, more of the hearing
would take a greater interest in learning sign. I probably would never have
pursued it if I hadn't met a wonderful woman with whom I had a desire to
communicate.
About those hamburgers...Have you considered carrying your own pencil and
paper?
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!71!Verna.Forristal
Internet: Verna.Forristal@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.orgLinda.Iverson@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Iverson) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16058
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Verna, hi again.
Well, for one, I wholeheartedly agree with your message to James.
I don't think the average non-disabled person is deliberately out to
ignore a disabled person or exclude us--they just don't think. They
never think somehow we live in the real world. People are amazed I
like movies, for example. When I make the comment that I saw this
or that they always comment. People fail to realize the words "see"
and "hear" are not just the ability to do those things but imply an
action as well. So many times I've been places with my son and people
would say thing like, "Gee, that's so nice you're helping your mom".
"Are you taking care of your mom?" Even when he was four or five.
It would be easy to vow I'd never go anywhere again, but I just keep
plugging away and will answer any questions as long as they are asked
in sincerity and with genuine interest. I think those of us with disabilities
have to let the world know we belong here, too. Hopefully, some of
those people I educate may be in a position to hire a disabled person
or help them in some way because in helping them they'll help themselves.
I think you hit the nail on the head. You met someone you want wanted
to get to know and you initiated a friendship. True, we can't be accepted
by all, but I figure those people who are rude to me aren't worth bothering
with anyway. I remember in college once I introduced myself to the
girl sitting next to me and asked if she'd carbon her physics notes.
This was a large class and the professor wrote on the board without
verbally explaining anything. I knew she was there, but she ignored
me. Then, another student who heard the conversation offered and we
became great friends. So, really, this girl did me a favor. I met
someone who saw a need and volunteered. But, it did hurt my feelings.
Again, though, human beings hurt each other--that's part of living
in this world.
Please tell your daughter blind people don't have better hearing.
We probably just listen more closely because hearing is our main information
gathering source.
My keyboard is sticking again; sorry for the sloppy letter, but I can't
figure this editor out. Oh, well.
Take care,
Linda
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!130!10!Linda.Iverson
Internet: Linda.Iverson@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16069
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
About those hamburger orders, I don't carry pencil and paper anymore.
MJ Bienvenu taught me a better way. Just walk in and start signing
what you want. The idea is that I a Deaf person am not less a person
because I don't speak and as the seller has something to sell "me"
me so let's find a way to do it. Believe it or not, just signing works!
People look at you for a moment then go, "Oh, and next thing you know,
they are offering you pen and paper or giving you a picture chart to
point out your selections.
In Mexico, people there use a lot of gestures and culture signs whether
daef or not. I have actually held conversations with Mexicans there
via this method! The point was that many people of other countries
learn more than just their native language. A shame Americans don't
generally do this. We go over to other countries and look down on people
just because they don't speak English! And in their own country! No
wonder the term ugly American came to be.
In any case, as disgusted as I sometimes get with hearies reaction
to the deaf-I admit a lot of it is fun too.they are so much fun to
play with. Now about so manypople not meeting a deaf person, basically
true. But More Americans are aware of us via the media and friends
or friends of friends of friends. I have less concern for those who
haven't met us than I do for those who dare to poke fun at us.
Isolationist Deafies? I think you and some others here are implying
something that is not generally true of ASL Deafies. Our issue is acceptance
of ourselves for what we are. The same is true of any struggling minority
group. Certain persons like to "inject" the idea that this means we
want to be isolated and stay that way. that is false. We seek recognization
of our self-identity. Our right tobe what and who we are. Indeed, no
one recognizes more than we do the need to also be a part of the bigger
whole. Like many culture groups, we simply resist being swallowed and
losing all sense of ourselves in the process. We are very much a part
of the whole. No one asks us, but we are just as patriotic, just as
in love with America, hold fast to the basic values of this country
as much as the average person, and we do associate with hearies. Maybe
not on as fair and equal a basis as we feel should be, but we do associate.
We are not isolationists or Deaf Apartheits as some want to label us.
Label us just because we insist on being who we are the same as other
minority groups. America is not the melting pot she is said to be.
I wish she was because racism, discrimination on the basis of religion,
creed, sex, audism and such would vanish. their existence shows we
aren't a true melting pot. Oneof thebig reasons is that people insist
on being who they are and I think rightfully so. That's why culture
enclaves within cultures continue to exist and will continue no matter
how much cohesiveness and cooperation develops. Behold teh culture
tipsy toeing during the Gulf Crisis, going on now with the NATO issue
in Europe, the chaos in the disintegrating Soviet Republics. People
A R E WHO they are and will always insist that they be allowed to
be just that. And when so allowed, they tend to be as respectful of
the other groups in portion to the amount of respect they receive.
However, it seems that some insist on implying that ASL Deaf people
are asking TOO MUCH for insisting on this same right. A gosh darn shame
, I think.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16077
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
hahahhaa! your post about playing around with hearing people made me
crack up... It reminds me of one of the things I used to do...
When a hearing person comes up to me and mocks my signing, trying
to insult me by making fun of me....
I freak out! I go, "You did WHAT with your mama?! That's totally
DIGUSTING!"
Or if they gang up on me with more than one person.. I would gesturally
express, "You and HIM your same sex did WHAT together! Let me out of
here!"
They usually turn lovely shades of red and storm away....
hehehehehehhehe!
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.orgJack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe) (06/17/91)
Index Number: 16080
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
TS> When a hearing person comes up to me and mocks my signing,
TS> trying to insult me by making fun of me....
TS>
TS> I freak out! I go, "You did WHAT with your mama?! That's
TS> totally DIGUSTING!"
TS>
TS> Or if they gang up on me with more than one person.. I would
TS> gesturally express, "You and HIM your same sex did WHAT
TS> together! Let me out of here!"
Clever, Tim, very clever. You must have some magic way of instantly
determining that the other person is mocking you, not just attempting
clumsily, but as best they can, to communicate with you in your own
language. If so, would you share your secret with the rest of us?
I am sure most of us could benefit from your great clairvoyance.
TS> They usually turn lovely shades of red and storm away....
And never, ever again attempt to reach out and communicate with
a deaf person! Or learn more about signing.
Maybe this is what Annie was talking about.
... Pax vobiscum.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.orgJames.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack) (06/18/91)
Index Number: 16197
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
Perhaps you have no been the butt of the kind of mocking Tim was talking
about. One need not be magical to recognize it. There are obvious difference
between mocking and being awkward at a communication medium. If you
are a target long enough you learn first to duck, then to take preventive
action. this is not to say that some deafie don't misjudge actions
of others but mocking is obvious enough for most of us.
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!14!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f14.n300.z1.fidonet.orgTim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Smith) (06/26/91)
Index Number: 16454
[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]
If you see someone signing, by all means introduce yourself to them!
There *IS* a difference between attempting to communicate and just
plain mocking someone....
I know sign language, and I consider myself quite adept in its usage,
and to imply that I don't know the difference just doesn't make sense..
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Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!275!429!Tim.Smith
Internet: Tim.Smith@f429.n275.z1.fidonet.org