[misc.handicap] blind self defense

Nancy.Feldman@p0.f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman) (06/25/91)

Index Number: 16429

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

PS>I'm certainly for anyone blind taking a self defense course but for the life
PS>of me I cannot understand how such will helpif a guy standing six feet away
PS>draws down on you and over his eight inch barrel says, "Give me all your
PS>money or I'm gonna waste you."  No matter how much self defense you've have
PS>taken, you either better give him all your money or pray Clark Kent shows up
PS>pretty quick.

Too true.  And as a friend of mine (who is a martial arts instructor)
pointed out:  "I can teach you what a block should look like, or a good
kick or punch, but if you can't see your attacker's blow coming, how
much good will it do you?  If you can grapple someone you could do some
serious damage, but otherwise you are at a serious disadvantage."

I would like yours (and others) opinions on this.  I would like to learn
some martial arts, but more for curiosity's sake than because I think it
will do me any real good in self-defense.

Am I advocating hiding at home because the world isn't safe?  Absolutely
not.  I just feel that money could be better spent than on martial arts
classes (which are notoriously pricy) which will do little added good if
you are attacked.

My humble opinion, of course.

And be aware that this discussion with my friend developed because I was
talking about taking up fencing just to see how it was all done.  I will
take martial arts classes or fencing lessons if I want, but I just won't
have unreasonable expectations.
 * SLMR 2.0 * Viking Foreplay:  "HEY!  YOU!  C'MERE!"

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Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Margo Downey) (06/25/91)

Index Number: 16439

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Nancy!  Well, well, I am familiar with and have taken classes in judo, tai
chi and some aikido, and self-denfense classes for women.  Now, Nancy, each
martial art or self-defense procedure has its good points and bad points, and
can or cannot be used.  A person who uses judo cannot usually match a person
with a good background in karate.  I would recommend that, if you want to,
that you enroll in a class for self-defense where various techniques and
procedures are taught to you from various schools of self-defense.  Or, I'd
recommend that you not take something like fencing which does not give you
good contact--am confused--we don't have dueling today, I don't think.  For
self-defense skills, I'd recommend a blind person take classes in martial arts
which require contact with the other party.  When taking martial arts of any
kind, one at least gets more self-confidence and more poise when carrying
oneself through life on a day-to-day basis.  Bottom line is--a general
all-purpose self-defense class is a good starter--and a good ending unless one
wants to go on and take specific martial arts such as the ones I took.  Again,
that isn't foolproof either.  Things can still happen; you might be at a
disadvantage not necessarily because of blindness but because of the strength
of the other person, the weapons the person has, etc.  If this leads to
specific questions, I or anyone else would be happy to try to answer.

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mgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16461

In article <16429@handicap.news> Nancy.Feldman@p0.f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org
writes:
>Index Number: 16429
>
>pointed out:  "I can teach you what a block should look like, or a good
>kick or punch, but if you can't see your attacker's blow coming, how
>much good will it do you?  If you can grapple someone you could do some
>serious damage, but otherwise you are at a serious disadvantage."
>

I recently sat-in on a series of women's self-defence classes taught by
Sensei Linda Ranson (of NYC).  [I was there as a training partner for a 
blind friend of mine.]  I also have been studying Aikido for one and a
half years.  I hope I can give you some realistic advice about
self-defence.  I'll try to be blunt.

First of all, if someone wants to come up behind you and swing a
baseball bat into the back of your skull, there's not much you're going
be able to do about it in most cases.  This is true for blind and
sighted alike.  Fortunately, that's not the typical scenario.

One typical scenario is someone might come along and push you to the
pavement.  Martial Arts like ju-jitsu or aikido certainly can teach you
how to fall without hurting yourself too badly.  (Example: if you are
pushed backwards, bend your knees, try to roll from your backside onto
your back, slap the ground with your arms relaxed and away from your
sides, and, above all, keep your head bent forward so it doesn't hit the
cement and scramble your brains.  This was a terrible description, but
if you take a good self-defence course they'll teach it right.)  And
once you're on the ground, very effective techniques exist to stop a man
from raping you.

[Note: there are two basic principles in the ground techniques.  One is
that if he is sitting (or lying) on top of you, then he is depending
upon you for his balance, and so it is possible to surprise him and
cause him to lose his balance.  The second is that for him to actually
rape you, he has to use his hands (to unzip his fly, remove your
clothing, etc.), during which time you will have a free hand to get him
off.  Of course, things are more complicated than this very brief
summary, which is why taking a course is such a good idea.  You'll learn
such things as the vital targets (eyes, ears, bridge of the nose,
throat, and, of course, the groin) and some very useful "shocking"
techniques (such as biting and pinching) that will cause him to lose
control just long enough for you to do something.]

A second likely scenario is someone coming up from behind and grabbing
you.  A course will show you all the ways that such an attacker is
vulnerable to heel stomps, elbow jabs, hands subtly reaching down to his
groin and squeezing, etc.  More importantly, such courses will teach you
how to remain calm in such nasty circumstances, so you can use all of
your intelligence and strength.

Here's a single data point: at the end of the aforementioned course, the
instructor had a dozen-or-so men come in and attack the members of the
class.  (Many of them were wrestlers, strong martial artists, etc.)  My
friend (the blind one) was faster at getting the attackers off than
anyone else in the class.  If it were a real circumstance, I'm sure that
some of them would still be hurting (this was several months ago.)

Of course, not all martial arts are equally useful for people with
difficulty seeing.  Archery is not the best choice [joke.]  I don't wish
to knock long-range styles like Tae-Kwon-Do or karate, but they are more
visual styles than others.  Probably your best choice is Ju-jitssu or a
Women's self-defence course based on ju-jitsu.  Aikido (my style, so I'm
not exactly objective) is also a choice if you have the time -- it's
much gentler, but probably takes more time before it is really
effective.

I'm not guaranteeing results or anything -- Sensei Ransom always
emphaized that the choice whether to submit or fight is a personal one
and should never be judged by another -- but it is important for you to
know that you do have to power to defend yourself in many circumstance.

In summary, most self-defense styles probably wont do you much good in a
bar-room brawl with people throwing punches at each other.  But given
the incidence of rape (perpetuated by both strangers and acquaintances)
in this country, self-defence is both logical and reasonable.  Good
luck.

marshall
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/* Marshall Gene Flax '89       (609)258-6739  mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU */
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Jeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16530

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I probably give blind people a bad reputation.  Let me explain.  Joy and
I were on the platform at Blair station waiting for the 95 express to
come home from a family visit.  I'm the only person there.  It was in
the late fall of last year, and with the time change it was dark, not
that that can matter at times, however I know when its light or dark.
On with the story.  This young fellow, no make that punk, comes out of
the tunnel and starts whistling and slapping his thighs to get Joy's
attention.  I was polite.  I told him she's working and please don't
distract her.  He stopped his antics, passed in front of me, then
proceeded into the enclosed shelter.  He only stayed there about 15
seconds.  He came back out on the platformand Joy was fidgeting.  She
kept creeping towards me.  She twitched, and I think though I can't be
100% sure of this that he was either stepping on her tail or back leg.
I asked him to leave the dog alone, not so politely, but not downright
ignorant.  His reply was that it was just a *ing dog and that if I
wasn't blind he'd kick the * out of me.  He didn't have time.  I punched
him right in the face as hard as I could.  I've never been a fight in my
life.  I got him right on the nose and I know it bent.  He hit the
ground, got up, then ran down the platform to the tunnel.  My heart
raced for 15 minutes and my hands trembled.  When I got home I threw up.
 It was wrong.  I mean he deserved it, but it was wrong.  The next time
he sees a blind person he might take it out on them.  I don't know the
answers for this type of situation and I still think of it.  I've
thought of martial arts, and I would justify it for exercise.  However,
in that situation, what would have happened?  Get my point?  I'm single,
29, and Joy is not my guide.  She's my little girl.  Yes, she's a dog,
but not a dog.  She's the most important thing in my life, and I'm
probably too protective over her.
I probably should have poked that guy in both eyes and simply walked
away.

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Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16566

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Jeff: I'm not going to quote your message to Margo regarding self defense,
but you probably did the right thing. I can think of one problem though. Suppose
that person had a gun, and came back and shot you. Where would you be then? I
don't have all the answers either, but there is arather thin line between
knowing when to use self defense, and when to not. Glad it worked out for you,
and had I been in your situation, I probably would have done the same thing.
Only difference is that I wouldn't have thrown up when I got home because in
those situations, I get rather agressive and take some terrible chances. Could
tell some rather grusome stories, but won't bother. Good luck and hang in
there. Stew.

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