[misc.handicap] Exit Row Survey

Beth.Hatch-Alleyne@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Hatch-Alleyne) (06/18/91)

Index Number: 16095

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Margo; to reinterate my last message to you.  Economics play a part
in why they, the airlines won't have trained personel sit in exit
rows.  I also believe, however, that a compitent blind person could
sit in exit rows, and I reapeat compitent blind person, just as a
compitent sighted person can sit in the exit rows.  The problem, as
you probably know, is serving liquor to people in exit rows.  People
who are intoxicated are equated, by the airlines at least, with a
perfectly sane sane, capable, and most not intoxicated blind person.
 We have tried to get the airlines to put trained personel in exit
rows, but they will not do this because of money.  A survey, as you
mentioned, would show that most people would not want to sit in an
exit row.  However, I am not going to say that I am not capable of
sitting in an exit row solely on the basis of my visual acuity.  I
am a capable blind adult who flies quite frequently, and I always
take the time to ask where the nearest exits are.  If you fly a lot
as I do, you'll begin to realize where the exits are because each
type of aircraft is set up differently and if you know the type of
aircraft you're on, you know what exit you're in.  Note that the
flight attendants won't say which row the exits are in over the loud
speakers, when asked why, they said it would frighten passengers.
Margo; you and I, as well as everyone else, could debate this issue
forever.  The real question for me is whether the airlines treat me
as a compitent human being, regardless of whether or not I am blind.
 Take care, and thanks for your always enjoyable messages, Beth.

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Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro) (06/21/91)

Index Number: 16291

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 >
 > Walter; it sounds like you're singing the tunes the
 > airlines want to hear.  If the wing of an airplane is
 > burning, and I am near it, I will hear fire and smell
 > smoke.  Hence, it would be utterly foolish for me to use
 > that exit.  Most likely, other people, blind or sighted,
 > will have that same idea, and will not be trying to get out
 > of my exit, Beth.

Beth,

     You're gonna love my harmonizing with Uncle Walt on this
one.  Now, I probably haven't flown as much as you, but, I do
seem to remember not being able to smell or hear much from the
outside.  That means to me that those doors make a pretty tight
seal, for which we can all be grateful else there wouldn't be any
way to pressurize that cabin.  If you cannot here the wind
rushing outside the plane, how you gonna hear that crackling
fire?  Open the exit?  Yes, and create the lovely potential for a
crossdraft.  It's much more important to me that I be wise than
that someone else Think me wise.  But, that's my inner vs. outer
independence, again.

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Henry.Kasten@f10.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Kasten) (06/25/91)

Index Number: 16409

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Beth, So you think you candistinguisg the difference between a burning
wing and a burning cabin.  Sounds reasonable enough.  But I wouldn't
stake my life on it.  I have kept quiet because almost all of the words
of wisdom on this subject of exit seating have words from people who have
absolutely no idea about what they are talking about.  So, I will hurl
some pearls of some of my own wisdom.  Two years ago I visited the
Americanu Airlines Training center.  They have a giant pool containing
the burnt out carcases of crashed planes.  Real ones!  They have been
wired to become noisey, smoke and give the actual effect of having just
crashed.  Very realistic and overwhelming.  Let us begin with getting out
an emergency exit.  First you have to unlatch the darn thing, uh, have
you ever gotten out of a car only after searching for the door handle,
even though you have ridden it many times?  Now that you are in this
wrecked plane try to remember not only where the latch not only how to
get to it but also how to manipulate it.  remember, you can't practice
and you don't have long and hopefully more than one chance to try.  Now
that you have the door unlatched, what do you do with it?  It won't open
like the door to a car, it won't open like any door you have ever tried
to open before.  Okay, you got the door open!  now clear the doorway, are
you sure it is clear?  Now release the emergency slide or steps or do you
know where they are or even what to look for.  But, what is that, heat,
smoke, where is it coming from! It is all around you, sorry friend, when
you amidst a fire you can't determine the sourcepoint.  Better get out of
the plane, now where the hell did I leave that weeeeeeeeng, splat  Oops,
Iguess the wing must of fallen off.  Oh, well, at least all those winks
now on there way to heaven will know that I was at least an independent
S.O.B.

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mgflax@phoenix.princeton.edu (Marshall G. Flax) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16466

In article <16291@handicap.news> Gary.Petraccaro@f90.n129.z1.fidonet.org writes:
]Index Number: 16291
]
]Beth,
]
]     You're gonna love my harmonizing with Uncle Walt on this
]one.  Now, I probably haven't flown as much as you, but, I do
]seem to remember not being able to smell or hear much from the
]outside.  That means to me that those doors make a pretty tight
]seal, for which we can all be grateful else there wouldn't be any
]way to pressurize that cabin.  If you cannot here the wind
]rushing outside the plane, how you gonna hear that crackling
]fire?  Open the exit?  Yes, and create the lovely potential for a
]crossdraft.  It's much more important to me that I be wise than
]that someone else Think me wise.  But, that's my inner vs. outer
]independence, again.
]

Fires are HOT!  Fires are LOUD!  I don't think that there would be any
problem feeling the heat or hearing the fire.  I think that, unless
you, yourself, have been on the inside of a burning airplane, we should
find people who have and ask them, rather than playing this imagining
game amongst ourselves.

marshall
-- 
/****************************************************************************/
/* Marshall Gene Flax '89       (609)258-6739  mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU */
/* c/o Jack Gelfand|Psychology Dept|Princeton University|Princeton NJ 08544 */
/****************************************************************************/

Beth.Hatch-Alleyne@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Hatch-Alleyne) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16510

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Walter; although I respect your opinion, I must disagree with you
about the exit row question.  I'm not sure how I would react in a
fire, neither am I sure that sighted passengers would be compitent
either.  I don't think I should be barred from an exit just because
I'm blind, it's a matter of civil rights, it is not that I want to
sit in the exits and nowhere else on an air plane.  But I should not
be thought  incompitent solely on the basis of my visual acuity.  I
don't think I'm making mountains out of moal hills.  That's what
they may have said about Rosa Parks, when she decided that she
wasn't going to give up her seat for a white man, or that black
people had to ride in the back of the bus.  I feel that any
compitent blind person is as compitent as any sighted person when we
use our skills of blindness.  Sight is deffinitely more convenient
in a lot of ways, but I am not going to feel inferior, or let anyone
think I'm inferior, because I don't have it, Beth.

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Jeff.Salzberg@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Salzberg) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16526

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 BH> I don't think I should be barred
 BH> from an exit just because I'm blind, it's a matter of civil
 BH> rights

 No, it's not.  It's a matter of SAFETY.

 BH> That's what they may have
 BH> said about Rosa Parks, when she decided that she wasn't going
 BH> to give up her seat for a white man, or that black people had
 BH> to ride in the back of the bus.

 Rosa Parks did not directly endanger other people's life and safety.

... "That's not writing, that's typing" - Truman Capote

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Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16544

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 BH> making mountains out of moal hills.  That's what they may have
 BH> said about Rosa Parks, when she decided that she wasn't going
 BH> to ride in the back of the bus.  I feel that any compitent
 BH> blind person is as compitent as any sighted person when we use
 BH> our skills of blindness.

Beth,
As I said just yesterday, I feel that just saying that a blind person
can't handle an airplane emergency is a cop-out in my opinion.  As far
as I know, blind folks are as verbal as anyone else, and if they know
that they don't want to sit in an exit row they can always say so when
they put in their order.  Not that that's always followed, but hey, I
don't think that someone inebriated will do any better at opening the
door than an incompetant blind person, do you?

                        Boulder Bill

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Beth.Hatch-Alleyne@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Hatch-Alleyne) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16567

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Margo; and everyone who has been reading this thread....I apologize
for offending anyone by using the terms "better, or inferior",
however they were in the message, so I figured I'd respond to those
terms.  Never meant to offend anyone, sorry.  You might also say
that our senses are convenient for doing things, and that blindness
is an inconvenience.  Yes, it is a pain in the butt sometimes, but
it is still an inconvenience, at least for me, anyway.  I'm not sure
if this is the place for this, but my father and I have always
argued about whether to sue the doctor who delivered me because I
can't see.  I got too much oxygen as a baby.  I was born in a small
hospital without the equipment to watch out for this.  I remember my
father telling me, "Beth, I want to sue, or I want you to sue, for
money from the doctor and the hospital for all the things you
couldn't or can't do."  I saw where this was going, and I was
insulted that he was talking about what I couldn't do, rather than
what I can do.  It was not a very positive statement, but I know he
didn't mean it to sound negative.  I didn't want their to be a media
circus around me, because the last time a woman sued for the same
reason there was.  I am perfectly happy with my life.  There isn't
anything in my life I haven't tried because I'm blind, and I would
rather earn money to live on than be set for life in a courts.
Anyway, I'm sure there are many who would disagree with me on this
and would have taken the money, but I have to live with my
decission.  I'm telling you this because my father views things
differently than I do in that my life would have been better and
fuller, if I could see, and I don't agree with that, Beth.

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Jeff.Dubois@p666.f207.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16578

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

This one I'll agree with you on.  To make a long story short my degree
is in photography.  I worked for 7 years in the field after University
and then lost my sight.  I've been two years like this and now am
working on another degree more suitable to my condition.  That is unless
I have a monopoly in selling pictures to other blind people.
"Of course it's in focus."
OK bak to the message header.
During my employment I was fortunate enough to work in aerial
photography.  Four and a half years I spent in west Africa.  I would go
overseas for two months then return for a month.  This all over a seven
year period.  I think it's established that I have been on a number of
larger aircraft and don't want to consider the amount of hours logged in
twin engine turbo prop Piper Navajo's, Cessnaa 404's, and please not
another Islander.
I don't see any logic in this discussion.  A sighted person would have
difficulty in a panic situation to open a door.  And no one neeed tell
me that if a cabin were smoke filled that a blind person would re-act
any better because of their ability to navigate when they can't see
anyways.  Pony patties.
I would bet the sighted person could open the door faster, even if the
sighted person had one arm and a wooden leg.  The occasional blind
person might open the door at a speed relatively close to the general
population but the event would be an anomoly.
This might be a fatalist attitude, but like I said before, I'll be
beside the galley, sipping on Heinekin.
Just the thought of people scrambling towards the exit door makes me
think of lemmings. <grin>

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