[misc.handicap] possible ramifications

Mary.Otten@p0.f1055.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Mary Otten) (06/18/91)

Index Number: 16144

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In your message to Tim, yoj mentioned that NFB looked at overlap and
possible raifications of one issue upon another. My argument is, how far
out do the possibleramifications have to be before they are judged to be
of low probability, or before the advantage gained to blind people by
use of the technology or adaptive equipment involved outweighs sch
possible ramifications? I'm sick of hearing about how this or that
modification can't be put in because somebody in the NFB or anywhere
else, for that matter, has decided that it's bad, hurts peoples' chances
of getting a job or maybe hurts the immage of blind people as fully
functional always independent human beings. In point of fact, not all
blind people are "fully independent" and not all blind people are super
travelers, and not all blind people are this or that or whatever else
the NFB wants to portray as the immage of the ideal blind person.Some of
us can make good use of some of this adaptive equipment. Take the tiles
for instance. What on earth is wrong with putting them in subways or in
other places where a misstep could really prove at the least a serious
problem and at worst, could lead to death? Somebody made a point on here
that blind people should have good mobility training and not need things
like these tiles or audible signals etc. Well, the operative word there
is should. There shouldn't be wars, but we have defense forces because
there still are. There shouldn't be robberies, but lots of people have
security systems on their houses because they feel safer, more protected
against robgers. Even with great mobility training, not all blind people
have the same aptitude for it. Why deprive the large numbers of people
who could benefit from the judicious use of adaptive equipment from
being more independent than they otherwise would feel they could be
because you are worried about a hypothetical immage problem? By you,
Idon't necessarily mean you personally, but the body of those who would
deprive others of useful aids because they are worried about what some
nebulous third party may or may not think?

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Margo.Downey@f60.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Margo Downey) (06/18/91)

Index Number: 16184

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

If you'll note in my message to Tim about tiles, I said that he used his
mobility skills in conjunction with tiles in subway platforms, etc.--or would
do that.  I am only going to speak for myself in this message and state that
what concerns me is that many people--blind people and professionals--downplay
one thing because they think something easier's come along.  I think one thing
I say and NFB says is that there aren't going to be tiles everywhere; not
going to be audible signals everywhere; Braille on elevators everywhere, and
folks need a plethora of skills and attitudes to get them to where they need
to go and what they need to do.  We have already seen many teachers say
Braille's not really important any more and it isn't efficient--so let's use
tapes and other auditory materials.  Let's make the child read print with
his/her vision even though it's 11 words per minute--just a random figure.  If
a lot of various things are available, the person can choose what to do--what
to use.  I believe that, even with new technology and stuff like that, that
nothing can replace traditional ways of doing things--like Braille, canes, dog
guides, etc., etc.  Technology and new ways of doing things can be used along
with the traditional ways sometimes.

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David.Andrews@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16524

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 TC> Jake, there are two high placed NFB officials who are never seen
 TC> anywhere without a sighted guide. Why don't they stop the
 TC> hypocrisy. Or is this another version of "do as I say, not as I
 TC> do!"

Tim,  For whatever reason, you aren't willing to mention names, just make
allegations.  I will presume, for debates sake, that you mean Dr. Jernigan and
Marc Maurer, since they are the highest NFB officials.  I have traveled with
both, and they both travel independently with their canes, when they choose too.

Mr. Maurer helped me move into my third floor apartment, without a sighted
guide.  At National Convention, they both chhose at times to travel with a
sighted guide.  It allows them to get through crowds more quickly, to find
people they are looking for more easily, and thus to accomplish much more.
The issue isn't one of cane equals independence versus sighted guide equals
dependence.  A sighted guide can be a valid travel technique.  The point is one
of choosing the best tool and control.  Believe me, when either uses a sighted
guide, they are in complete control of where they go, and when etc.
Finally, many of the long cane techniques, and teaching techniques that are used
around the country were developed by Dr. Jernigan at the Iowa Commission for the
Blind, so to imply that he can't travel is ludicrous.

... David andrews

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Bill.Koppelmann@f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16592

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 JM> Regarding the implications of Dr. Jernigan and Mr. Maurer
 JM> traveling frequently with sighted guides, I have observed them
 JM> both to be good cane travellers, especially Mr. Maurer, who is
 JM> perhaps the best cane traveller I have ever observed.  I do
 JM> think, however, that the extent to which they use sighted
 JM> assistants raises philosophical questions. If a sighted
 JM> assistant is an equivalent technique to travelling alone with a
 JM> cane, then why all the emphasis on learning these skills and
 JM> getting orientation centers to require that they be learned?

Jamal,
i think you pose a very serious and important question here.
One of the issues that Dr. Jernigan harps on quite a lot is the lack
of role models for people like Dr. Tenbroek and other leaders who
started the movement.  For me, I would tend to feel that what these
leaders are speaking is more than rhetoric if what you have written
above were not so much the case.

                        Bill K.

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Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui) (06/28/91)

Index Number: 16593

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I am not saying that blind persons should not, especially if
they lack good travel skills, use sighted guides.  It is
partly because Mr. Maurer and Dr. Jernigan have such good skills
and are necessarily viewed as examples of the philosophy of
alternative techniques that they have a special obligation to
travel independently as much as possible.  I am not quibbling
about using a guide to make urgent passage through a crowd, or
some other unusual circumstance.  The problem is that the
sighted guide technique seems to be the dominant not occasional
mode of travel at conventions and other important public
activities.

--Jamal--

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