rg@gandp (Dick Gill) (10/01/90)
Dear Tower Folks, I have a business/technical problem that could use the perspective and insights that readers of this group have shown over the last year. A year ago NCR dealer marketeers starting telling me about the new corporate strategy to move from the Tower product line to Intel based systems; now it is clear that the Tower product is on its way out. Computer Systems News says that "Over the next three years, NCR will phase out its Motorola Inc. 680X0-based Tower family..." and that "it plans eventually to replace the Tower line with a family of 80486-based file servers that will be positioned against systems such as Compaq Computer Corp.'s SystemPro." My firm has been selling our business software on multi-user Unix systems since the early 80's, and we have been a small Tower dealer since the introduction of the line. Our customers like the NCR name, the reliability, performance and service; we like the quality, consistency and growth of the product, the professionalism of the NCR technical staff, the limited distribution channels and our ability to make a reasonable profit selling in small quantities. We now find ourselves in the unhappy situation of having to replace our principal hardware platform. Our competitors are increasingly hitting us with NCR's own announcements that the Tower line is dead, so we need to do something promptly. The NCR Intel products are ok if I wanted a PC or a file server but I don't. Besides, everyone and his brother is selling 386/486 boxes and small-business clients believe that any machine that can run MS-DOS should be a cheap commodity. More important, my (limited) experience makes me skeptical that they are the right platform for a 5 to 50 user business system. What I want is a complete and solid unix machine for 5 to 50 users sold through distributors and delivered intact along with the OS, and I want all hardware and system software supported nationally by the manufacturer or by a well known 3rd party maintenance firm. Just as important, I need a manufacturer whose name is well known to the business community and who has demonstrated strength and committment to multi-user unix solutions. Finally, I need a product line that I can buy in small quantities and that isn't being sold below my cost at the local drug store. NCR's president says that the new open architecture "based on the client/server model, will play a major role in bringing NCR into the Fortune 1000 accounts" and I hope NCR makes zillions selling to the big guys. However, since I have no Fortune 1000 clients and am not sure just what a "client/server model" is, it appears that NCR has written me out of their script. It is time to revise my hardware strategy and I am looking for your opinions. The question is: Which manufacturer you think is likely to deliver what I need now and will need through the 90's? Please e-mail and don't be afraid to blow your own (or your company's) horn or plug your favorite rising star. I will not use your name without permission but will summarize to the net if there is interest. Thanks for your time and opinions. Dick Gill -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Gill Gill & Piette, Inc. "I can be a humble guy when I need to." (703)761-1163 ..uunet!gandp!rg Donald Trump
tjon@plains.NoDak.edu (Christopher C. Tjon) (10/01/90)
In article <314@gandp> rg@gandp.UUCP (Dick Gill) writes: > > Dear Tower Folks, > > I have a business/technical problem that could use the > perspective and insights that readers of this group have shown > over the last year. > > A year ago NCR dealer marketeers starting telling me about the > new corporate strategy to move from the Tower product line to > Intel based systems; now it is clear that the Tower product > is on its way out. Computer Systems News says that "Over the > next three years, NCR will phase out its Motorola Inc. > 680X0-based Tower family..." and that "it plans eventually to > replace the Tower line with a family of 80486-based file servers > that will be positioned against systems such as Compaq Computer > Corp.'s SystemPro." > --- segment deleted--- > > What I want is a complete and solid unix machine for 5 to 50 > users sold through distributors and delivered intact along with > the OS, and I want all hardware and system software supported > nationally by the manufacturer or by a well known 3rd party > maintenance firm. Just as important, I need a manufacturer whose > name is well known to the business community and who has > demonstrated strength and committment to multi-user unix > solutions. Finally, I need a product line that I can buy in > small quantities and that isn't being sold below my cost at the > local drug store. > Dick, I understand the feelings you have regarding ncr's tower line. Our company experienced (is experiencing) the same thing. After careful consideration and research we chose the Altos line of computers. They are really sharp machines. You can get them 386 and 486 based. They run a system V unix and come standard with a 16 user setup. I believe that they can be taken out to 64 users without a whole lot of added expense. I have a 386 series 1000 that runs at 33mhz and it will blow the socks of a tower. Altos has complete nationwide distribution and service can be obtained locally (at least in fargo ND). On the flip side of the coin the system documentation which you receive with the machine is sufficient to allow a semi skilled technician to do the repairs in house. Now the big question! How much does one of these machines cost. They are not too bad. The 33mhz 386 with 1 gigabyte is around 2500$ (That figure is estimated, dont Quote me exactly) The 486 monster is around 10 grand. It has been our experience that the altos is a good line and does everything our tower would do and then some. most important of all they are so much quicker(we have several of them). I dont have the phone number here right now but if you would like it feel free to email me. -- Chris Tjon UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!tjon Box 5224 BITNET: tjon@plains.bitnet Fargo ND 58105-5224 INTERNET: tjon@plains.NoDak.edu 701-232-7678
ian@ukpoit.co.uk (Ian J Spare) (10/02/90)
In article <6087@plains.NoDak.edu> tjon@plains.NoDak.edu (Christopher C. Tjon) writes: >Our company experienced (is experiencing) the same thing. After >careful consideration and research we chose the Altos line of computers. >They are really sharp machines. You can get them 386 and 486 based. >They run a system V unix and come standard with a 16 user setup. I believe >that they can be taken out to 64 users without a whole lot of added expense. >I have a 386 series 1000 that runs at 33mhz and it will blow the socks of a >tower. > I could be me !!! But ......... I think you've missed the point of the original posting !! The original poster was unhappy with 386 and 486 based systems. For myself I am unhappy at NCR dropping the 68xxx lines. I feel that one of NCR's main strengths has been not jumping on bandwagons and working to an optimum reliable robust solution. I have been told that a major reason for selecting this has been getting the multiple processor boxes which is currently difficult to acheive with 68000 based chips, seems to turn their existing strategy on the head. The decision not to fully release 5.4 also seems to likely to upset more people than just me !!!! -- Ian Spare , iT , Barker Lane , CHESTERFIELD , DERBYS , S40 1DY , GREAT BRITAIN E-mail : ian@ukpoit.uucp - VOICE : +44 246 214296 - FAX : +44 246 214353 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ iT - The Information Technology Business Of The Post Office ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In Tune With Technology ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hl.rogers@ofc.Columbia.NCR.COM (HL Rogers) (10/03/90)
>For myself I am unhappy at NCR dropping the 68xxx lines. I feel that one of >NCR's main strengths has been not jumping on bandwagons and working to an >optimum reliable robust solution. I have been told that a major reason for >selecting this has been getting the multiple processor boxes which is >currently difficult to acheive with 68000 based chips, seems to turn their >existing strategy on the head. The decision not to fully release 5.4 also >seems to likely to upset more people than just me !!!! > With the usual disclaimer that I do not speak for my company (see .sig below), I have $0.02 to add to this thread. To my knowledge, which I admit is limited by too few information channels and brain bandwidth, nobody who is employed by NCR has stated the TOWER line is being dropped. Press reports to that effect are, IMHO, press interpretations of what NCR will do with current product lines considering the company's announcements of a new suite of compute engines and client/server systems. NCR's recent announcement of new additions to the TOWER family (68040) hardly indicates the TOWER line is being dropped. I encourage TOWER users to not jump to conclusions based upon press "sensationalism" (IMHO) but instead contact your nearest NCR sales/marketing representative for the real scoop. Like I said, just my $0.02. -- HL Rogers (hl.rogers@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM) Me? Speak for my company?? HA! "Call 202/653-1800 for a good time!" - John Matrow, 1989
nick@toro.MTS.ML.COM (Nicholas Jacobs) (10/03/90)
In article <1487@ukpoit.co.uk> ian@ukc.ac.uk (Ian J Spare) writes: >For myself I am unhappy at NCR dropping the 68xxx lines. I feel that one of >NCR's main strengths has been not jumping on bandwagons and working to an >optimum reliable robust solution. Depending on how you apply the not in the "not jumping...", you get somewhat different meanings :-). >I have been told that a major reason for >selecting this has been getting the multiple processor boxes which is >currently difficult to acheive with 68000 based chips, seems to turn their >existing strategy on the head. The decision not to fully release 5.4 also >seems to likely to upset more people than just me !!!! I can't comment on the suitability of 68000 chips in a MP environment, but the Tower 32 line (the 600 and 650) is definitely showing its age. These machines just don't have the raw horsepower to sustain a windowed environment such as X. Of course, not every customer needs these capabilities, so NCR is bound to lose a certain portion of its customer base with a move like this. I'm sure that they'll be able to explain the damage-control measures at great gory length to anybody who wants to listen. But to be honest, NCR has said that they will continue to support the existing machines. The fact that 5.4 won't be on the Tower line is disconcerting, but given how much stuff has been put into 5.4, I wonder how well a Tower 32 could run 5.4 (enlighten me please!). Furthermore, is the CPU which you run Unix on that important? Since I've never had to write any assembly language programs in a Unix environment, I don't have a lot of attachment to any given CPU. I'm curious to know other people's thoughts on this... I think that if NCR can produce and support modern Unix boxes, it's not so important what the architecture is (unless you can buy something faster and better supported from another vendor of course 1/2 :-)). Just my $0.02 on the subject. Nicholas Jacobs nick@toro.MTS.ML.COM, uunet!toro!nick, (212) 236-3230 I have something to say! It's better to burn out than to fade away!
shwake@raysnec.UUCP (Ray Shwake) (10/09/90)
nick@toro.MTS.ML.COM (Nicholas Jacobs) writes: >I can't comment on the suitability of 68000 chips in a MP environment, but the >Tower 32 line (the 600 and 650) is definitely showing its age. These machines >just don't have the raw horsepower to sustain a windowed environment such as >X. Of course, not every customer needs these capabilities, so NCR is bound to >lose a certain portion of its customer base with a move like this. I'm sure Considering the advanced platforms available from Hewlett/Packard and NeXT based on the 68040 chipset (now only at the beginning of its development cycle) I doubt that potential horsepower had anything to do with the decision. More likely, the decision to make OS/2 and DOS strategic components of its system plans made the decision to go Intel inevitable.