ra@intsys.no (Robert Andersson) (12/11/90)
A lot of useful information about NCR and their UNIX products reach me
late or never, sometimes even causing NCR to lose a business opportunity.
Information about known OS bugs and known fixes also does not reach me.
I have spent days locating them, working around them and reporting them
to the local NCR office, only to get told it's a known bug and that I can
get a patch right away. This is a waste of both mine and the local NCR
office support peoples time.
Has technical support people within NCR in the US considered using this
newsgroup more actively to help solve these problems? I was thinking that:
o New product announcements and new release announcements is probably
written into a computer by some NCR person. Why not post it here too?
o When a patch is available to fix a known bug, why not announce it here?
Is this doable? Is it a good idea?
--
Robert Andersson Voice +47 2 371055 International Systems A/S
ra@intsys.no Fax +47 2 356448 P.O. Box 3356
...!{uunet,mcsun,nuug}!intsys.no!ra 0405 Oslo 4, NORWAYnolan@iti.org (Mike Nolan) (12/11/90)
ra@intsys.no (Robert Andersson) writes: >Has technical support people within NCR in the US considered using this >newsgroup more actively to help solve these problems? I was thinking that: >o New product announcements and new release announcements is probably > written into a computer by some NCR person. Why not post it here too? >o When a patch is available to fix a known bug, why not announce it here? >Is this doable? Is it a good idea? 1. Is this doable? I don't want to become the net.police, but my understanding of the Internet guidelines is that commercial use, such as for *official* support channels, is not permitted. HP is currently evaluating using USENET for support, and NCR could certainly do the same. It is my understanding that NCR is evaluating *some* kind of bulletin board system for support, but knowing NCR they're probably interested in something they can CHARGE for, rather than giving away useful knowledge for FREE. At present several NCR offices read this newsgroup, and postings from NCR people show up fairly frequently. This activity is apparently condoned by NCR, although not officially. 2. Is it a good idea? HELL, YES, that's why it isn't being done! Michael Nolan (net.cynic) UUCP: tssi!nolan (if that fails, try sparky!dsndata!tssi!nolan) Internet: nolan@helios.unl.edu (ignore the path in the heading)
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (12/11/90)
Robert Andersson (ra@intsys.no) wants NCR folks to post about patches/fixes: [ ... ] >>o New product announcements and new release announcements is probably >> written into a computer by some NCR person. Why not post it here too? >>o When a patch is available to fix a known bug, why not announce it here? > >>Is this doable? Is it a good idea? Mike Nolan (nolan@helios.unl.edu) responds: > >1. Is this doable? I don't want to become the net.police, but my understanding >of the Internet guidelines is that commercial use, such as for *official* >support channels, is not permitted. Is this still actually a rule? It was a real rule when ARPA was still in existance, albeit largely ignored. It's almost completely ignored in the current net.incarnation and I applaud direct participation by vendors' employees. It generates good will in that those of us with nagging problems can get definite answers. I doubt that it could be construed to be selling or promotion since prospective customers rarely need this kind of information. It is bound to help sales by creating good will, but it could hardly be considered commercial activity. Further, I think that where a newsgroup is vendor specific, like this one, there's less growling about "he's tryin' to sell sumpin' ". I don't think that we or NCR would consider this newsgroup as an "*official* support channel", but I welcome the NCR people taking the time to tell us what they can, it's invaluable to me. [ Mike continues, talking about official support delivery, charges ... ] >giving away useful knowledge for FREE. At present several NCR offices read >this newsgroup, and postings from NCR people show up fairly frequently. This >activity is apparently condoned by NCR, although not officially. I don't think it's a matter of NCR "winking" when something shows up here, it's a matter of what the company can promise in the way of support. Even those directly involved with delivery of support may be able to say things here that they are specifically forbidden to say at their day job. This is certainly the case with AT&T personnel (soon to be the same? :-) You also have access to a variety on the net that you can't reach through official support channels. There are a couple of technical managers and developers at Interactive Systems in Boulder who regularly contribute to comp.unix.sysv386. They aren't part of the technical support operation but they certainly have access to factual information that they are generous enough to share with the newsgroup. >2. Is it a good idea? > > HELL, YES, that's why it isn't being done! > >Michael Nolan (net.cynic) >UUCP: tssi!nolan (if that fails, try sparky!dsndata!tssi!nolan) >Internet: nolan@helios.unl.edu (ignore the path in the heading) I can't speak for NCR (or the other two firms I'll appear to be speaking for) but I'll guess that their management, like AT&T and Interactive, does not support usenet as a medium for delivering support but they don't prohibit their employees from participating in usenet discussions. As long as _we_ behave outselves and not try to confuse helpful individuals with our system vendor, this should work just fine. I'm grateful for the contributions made by the NCR folks, I welcome and encourage it. As long as each of us (outside NCR) doesn't confuse company official policy with the generosity of those who happen to work for NCR, I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be done and encouraged. -- Bill Kennedy usenet {att,cs.utexas.edu,pyramid!daver}!ssbn.wlk.com!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!bill
mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) (12/15/90)
In article <1943@ssbn.WLK.COM> bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) writes: >Robert Andersson (ra@intsys.no) wants NCR folks to post about patches/fixes: >[ ... ] >>>o New product announcements and new release announcements is probably >>> written into a computer by some NCR person. Why not post it here too? >>>[...] > >[...] and I applaud direct participation by vendors' >employees. It generates good will in that those of us with nagging problems >can get definite answers. [...] On this note, anyone like to comment on when X11R4 PROMS will be available for the NCR Xterminals? Having a NCR Xterminal (which runs X11R3), this is a nagging problem desiring definite answers... Thanks. -- Mark Mark W. Snitily Consulting Services: 894 Brookgrove Lane Graphics, Operating Systems, Compilers Cupertino, CA 95014 (408) 252-0456 mark@zok.uucp West Coast UUCP X11 archive site If your mailer doesn't like the .uucp domain, these also work: ..!{mips,sgi}!zok!mark, mark%zok@mips.com, mark%zok@sgi.com