bill@wrangler.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (03/13/91)
I have just been told something and while I would like to believe that
it is incorrect, I'm told that it's the final and definitive answer.
This is a little long, but if you have a Tower 32/400 and are thinking
about the "generous" upgrade offer from Vr2 to Vr3, read on.
History: Last July I bought a used Tower 32/400 with the optional 8K
cache memory and floating point processor. The system came with System
V release 2. There were some things that I wanted to do that would be
a lot easier if I upgraded from Vr2 to Vr3 so I bought the package from
Wyle Labs, my distributor, ~$750 with a new manual set. I'll not talk
about the hell I went through to get the upgrade and the terrible time
I had getting it installed. Once I finally did get Vr3 installed and
working I noticed that sus firmware ($5151) recognized and passed the
68881 FPP but that sysdef said that it was not present.
Process: I asked Wyle Labs about it and they said that I had a hardware
problem. They said that they had checked with NCR and that only a
defective FPP would exhibit that behavior or that I had the clock jumpered
wrong. To prove my point I re-installed Vr2 and the FPP was fine. I
posted a m'aidez to this group and got several responses suggesting that
there was some option I needed to install, so I installed them all. No
net change, the FPP works in Vr2, doesn't work in Vr3. The thing slipped
through the cracks at Wyle but the sales rep finally slugged it out with
his people who (I ASSume) slugged it out with NCR. I vigorously objected
to the suggestion that I buy into CODAR, my feeling is that there's not
a thing wrong with the FPP other than a software-only upgrade.
Situation: Today Wyle called back and said that they had tracked it
down, once and for all. There is apparently a hardware pre-requisite
for the FPP to work with Vr3. It's a daughter board with some PALs and
a clock chip, part number 3466-K018. It costs $1950, Wyle said that in
view of all the grief, they'd discount that to less than $1300 for me.
Questions: Yes, I'm upset, but I'll try and contain my upset to just
the preface. Please also note that my upset presupposes that Wyle and
I have been told the truth. I'm outraged and apalled that I'm sold a
software upgrade with a pre-requisite hardware option that costs nearly
three times as much. I'm angry that I was not warned (I've read the
RELDEF) that my FPP was going to stop working after I installed the new
operating system without buying a $2000 hardware option. I'm really
miffed that I was given the royal run around only to end up $2000 away
from something that I already had, WORKING!
Is this really true? Do you really have to buy the $2000 hardware board
to make the OS upgrade work with the FPP (which used to work)? If it's
true then why didn't someone say so? It appears to me that it should have
been emblazoned in shocking pink letters on the tape
"If you have an FPP, do not open or install this update without part
number 3466-K018 installed. Contact your distributor for details."
Sheesh! The whole darned FPP isn't but $1400, why should I have to spend
that again plus just to continue using the one I had?
Greg Hackney mentioned that he required some hardware changes to upgrade
his Towers to Vr3 but he said it was to make WIN-TCP work. Since SWBT is
on NCR maintenance maybe that's why it didn't come up, if it's true.
This newsgroup is blessedly free of wanton flaming and I certainly don't
want to change that. On the other hand, if I have been correctly
informed, I think NCR deserves a fuel-air weapon for flagrant foul play.
If I have been misinformed would someone please tell me the "real" truth
so that I can calm down and get my FPP working again? Please post unless
you require anonymity in which case email and I'll post so that others
can avoid what I went through. Thanks,
--
Bill Kennedy usenet {att,cs.utexas.edu,pyramid!daver}!ssbn.wlk.com!bill
internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!billbill@wrangler.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (03/16/91)
In article <551@wrangler.WLK.COM>, I wrote: > I have just been told something and while I would like to believe that > it is incorrect, I'm told that it's the final and definitive answer. [ I explain that I was told that in order for my 68881 floating point chip to work I need to buy a $2000 option card... ] > Questions: Yes, I'm upset, but I'll try and contain my upset to just > the preface. Please also note that my upset presupposes that Wyle and > I have been told the truth. I'm outraged and apalled that I'm sold a > software upgrade with a pre-requisite hardware option that costs nearly > three times as much. I'm angry that I was not warned (I've read the > RELDEF) that my FPP was going to stop working after I installed the new > operating system without buying a $2000 hardware option. I'm really > miffed that I was given the royal run around only to end up $2000 away > from something that I already had, WORKING! [ I go on to complain loudly and to try to appear not to be flaming NCR or Wyle Labs, my distributor... ] I included the paragraph above because that's really what I want to follow up. There is, however, progress being made and it turns out that Wyle and I were misinformed. The $2,000 option card is only required if you are upgrading a PMC-III 16.67MHz processor to a PMC-IV 25MHz processor and you need to keep your 68881 FPP running at 16.67MHz (which you must), it has nothing to do with the problem I'm having. Having read my article a couple of times I get the feeling that I'm grunting pretty hard to spew out a flame while claiming to not be flaming. I think that I was understandably upset but the tone was one of hissing polite remarks through clenched teeth. Please write that off to my being _extremely_ frustrated by being helpless to get the problem solved. The problem still exists but there are people looking into it. Further, I'm of the opinion that the other day might have been the first time that NCR/CODAR heard about it. I could be wrong on that point but nobody seems to have heard of it before, therefore my hunch that I had just rattled around Wyle for six months. I said that I felt that NCR deserved a fuel-air weapon sized flame if they had indeed made some change in Vr3 that required a $2,000 hardware upgrade and indeed they would deserve it, but they didn't and don't. I was misinformed. I'm taking your time to read this because it's a point we should remember. There are some white hats behind the ivy covered walls and a couple of them have rushed to help me cut away the ivy and get to the bottom of the problem. That's the kind of "quiet" expertise that we have access to if we can overcome the frustration and try to be rational about it. Polite would be better, but I managed to prove that it isn't required. I nearly came unhinged when I got the "bad news" and apologies to those that still think my hinges came all the way off. Many thanks to the folks inside NCR and outside who have pitched in to help with this. I will post a summary when it's all settled so that someone else doesn't go galloping off into a minefield that has my footprints in it. -- Bill Kennedy usenet {att,cs.utexas.edu,pyramid!daver}!ssbn.wlk.com!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!bill