[rec.aquaria] A talk with the Coralife Plant Fertilizer people

richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (01/17/90)

Upon John Bridge's behest, I spoke today to the Coralife people about
their plant fertilizers.
 
These are my notes:
  
 I spoke to Dr. Tooley. He had a slight accent, so it could have been
 Dr. Tu Lee for all I know. Nice man. He can be reached at (213) 320-9872
   
 Q: What are the proportions of Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P) and Potassium (K) 
    in the aquarit plant food ?
    
 A: Basically it's 2-1-2. 
     
      
 Q: Hmm. Planttabs are 10-15-10. Why the difference ?
       
 A: They are measuring theirs by weight. Ours is by volume; it's in
    solution.
	   
(I didn'nt understand what he was talking about, but didn't want to press it)
	    
Q: What are the sources for these ?
	     
A: Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate.
	      
	       
Q: Is there anything else in there ?
		
A: Yes. Plants need a balance of 13 essential minerals. A deficiancy
   in any one of them will result in poor plant growth. Note that
   different plants have different requirements as to the percentages
   of these nutrients.
			  
			   
Q: And what is the source of these minerals ? Standard Hoaglands solution ?
			       
A: No. Hoaglands is outdated. It's a formula developed by Dr. Muraschu (SP?)
   and his Prof. Dr. Skoog (SP?) at the university of Irvine. It contains
   more elements than Hoaglands.

(Can anybody fins any reference to work by these guys so we can find out
exacly what is in this stuff ?)
				       
					
Q: Let me get back to the N-K-P for a moment. Plantabs are 10-15-10
   yet Tetra fertilizers are 1.5-0-10, ie. just Potassium. Any idea
   why this is ? Is the idea here that the fish supply nitrates and
   there will (for whatever reason) be enough phosphates and that all
   plants need is to get additional potassium to utilize existing
   nitrates and phospates.
							
A: Yes I think thats the idea, but I peronally don't think this
   is very well thouh out. You can't really do that, it's like
   eating things from the four food groups but eating them
   on different days. Besides, plants don't use ammonia which
   is what fish excrete, they use nitrates.
								     
(Doesn't this contradict what I just read here someplace ?)
								      
Q: What can you say about algae ? I used to have blue-green
   bit now that I'm using RO water I get hair algae.

A: Yes, blue green is the most pernicious, but requires some
   minerals to grow. RO water does not contain many of these
   minerals so it will not dominate. Thread algae, however
   trives on silicates which are ot removed by the RO filter.

link@soup.ssl.berkeley.edu (Richard Link) (01/17/90)

In article <24849@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>I used to have blue-green bit now that I'm using RO water I get hair algae.

OK. I give up. What's RO water?

Richard Link
Space Sciences Laboratory

BRIDGE@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (JOHN BRIDGE) (01/17/90)

It doesn't sound like they really want to talk that much about
Coralife fertilizer or maybe I am just dense. I can say that I am
not unhappy with its performance. I was using the Tetra stuff and
had the impression that Coralife seemed to be doing more for the
plants. I am also becoming aware of the effect of light timing on
plant growth. I don't think there is a universal "correct" time
of light and time of dark. It seems to depend on the plant type,
amount of light (lumens), plant location in tank relative to
the lights, amount of fertilizer in tank water, and time between
water changes. Under all conditions I have become convinced that
12 hours of light is too much time. Even poorly lit tanks seem
to do better with 9, 10 or 11 hours of light. I also notice that
the plants in slightly acid (pH between 6.5 and 6.9) water seem to
do a little better than those in water at 7.2 (tap water pH here).
It still is an art for me. I don't really do much for the plants
using rational judgement. I appreciate the discussion of various
other peoples experience. Please do give some idea of the water
conditions you have (tap water, RO, whatever) with a pH and salt
content at least.               John

thuan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Thuan Nguyen) (01/18/90)

richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:

<Coralife: ... plants don't use ammonia which is what fish excrete, 
<	       they use nitrates.
<
<R: (Doesn't this contradict what I just read here someplace ?)

	Yeah,  I think there was a recent article which said that ammonium
ions are attracted to the negative ions in the soil and that plant
roots use mostly ammonium.

<R: What can you say about algae ? I used to have blue-green
<   but now that I'm using RO water I get hair algae.
<
<Coralife: ...Thread algae, however thrives on silicates which are not 
<             removed by the RO filter.

	I don't know for sure if thread algae thrives on silicates.
Diatoms certainly do.  However, I'm sure that the silicates would
be removed by your reverse osmosis (RO) filter.  Why shouldn't it be?
Sodium ions are removed, as are Chlorine ions.  Silicon is between
these 2 in size, so it should also be too large to cross the cellulose 
membrane.

	My opinion is that the person you talked too, Dr. Tooley (?)
either knows zip about the Coralife fertilizer or else he's trying 
to avoid telling trade secrets.

					Thuan

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thuan Nguyen			  		     thuan@garnet.berkeley.edu
University of California, San Francisco/Berkeley Bioengineering Graduate Group
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (01/18/90)

In article <1990Jan17.054121.27143@agate.berkeley.edu> link@soup.ssl.berkeley.edu (Richard Link) writes:
>In article <24849@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>>I used to have blue-green bit now that I'm using RO water I get hair algae.
>
>OK. I give up. What's RO water?

Reverse osmosis. It's a highly selective filter that pretty much
de-ionizes water.

Looking at my notes, which I can barely read there are two points
I forgot to make: 1) When I asked why they don't just make 1 chemical
that you can add rather than having a fertilizer and an iron supliment
and a trace element solution. The answer is that, the chemicals, when
mixed, react and precipitate out.

Also, the two Dr's that discovered the new trace element solution
(modified fro Hoagland) are at University of Irvine and University
of Wisconsin, in case anybody tries to track them down (and I
hope somebody does)