szabo@crg5.UUCP (Nick Szabo) (01/12/91)
IMHO the best starting point for a groupware discussion is not trying to define "what is groupware", or thinking up future forms of groupware, but looking at the groupware we already have. That is why I have been discussing e-mail and e-news, because these are the predominant groupware applications today. Other widely used groupware applications include the rcs/sccs source code revision systems and bug tracking systems used in software engineering. Traffic signs and lights are a form of groupware used outside the computer terminal paradigm. We already have a wealth of experience with groupware to go on; we needn't start from scratch. Once we obtain this knowledge, we can have an intelligent discussion of new forms of groupware. -- Nick Szabo szabo@sequent.com Embrace Change... Keep the Values... Hold Dear the Laughter...
wex@dali.pws.bull.com (Der Grouch) (01/22/91)
To pick one fairly large nit, Nick has his blinders on again...
In article <20966@crg5.UUCP> szabo@crg5.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes:
E-mail and netnews are the only forms of
groupware that carry emotion, and even those are more useful for
technical information.
Patently false. Most meeting-support tools carry some kind(s) of
emotion-level indicators. Gibbs et al (project NICK at MCC/STP) even went
so far as to include explicit iconic emoticons for things like "I'm pleased"
and "I'm bored."
Other forms of groupware that carry emotion are the computer-supported
meetings rooms (at U Arizona plus umpty-ump technical reports from Marilyn
Mantei & co), plus brainstorming tools like Colab, plus Root et al's work
with video "cruising" and video conference rooms.
And as for the relative utility of email/netnews for technical information,
all I can say is that Nick is reading different enews than I. Even in good
groups such as this one, I find few nuggets of technical information. Much
more is contained in media which can carry multiple messages (such as tech
reports with text/pictures, demonstration videos with text/animation/
pictures/sound, etc.)
--
--Alan Wexelblat phone: (508)294-7485
Bull Worldwide Information Systems internet: wex@pws.bull.com
"Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people."lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) (01/22/91)
wex@dali.pws.bull.com (Der Grouch) writes: >Patently false. Most meeting-support tools carry some kind(s) of >emotion-level indicators. Gibbs et al (project NICK at MCC/STP) even went >so far as to include explicit iconic emoticons for things like "I'm pleased" >and "I'm bored." It should be possible to send your basic brainwave pattern across. You could have strip charts for everyone in the conversation and see who is paying attention with theta waves, who is just meditating with alpha waves, and who is surfing on righteous waves. Anyone who takes their meter off doesn't get waves from anyone else.
szabo@crg5.UUCP (Nick Szabo) (01/22/91)
In article <WEX.91Jan21134145@dali.pws.bull.com> wex@dali.pws.bull.com (Der Grouch) writes: >To pick one fairly large nit, Nick has his blinders on again... "Again"? Wonderful ad hominem attack without examples. Except that it provides a good example of counter-productive use of emotions in groupware. Perhaps if you would take my advice, cut out the negative emotions and stick to facts, we could make some progress. >In article <20966@crg5.UUCP> szabo@crg5.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes: > E-mail and netnews are the only forms of > groupware that carry emotion, and even those are more useful for > technical information. > >Patently false. Most meeting-support tools carry some kind(s) of >emotion-level indicators. Gibbs et al (project NICK at MCC/STP) even went >so far as to include explicit iconic emoticons for things like "I'm pleased" >and "I'm bored." OK, I should have said "widely used groupware". You are talking about experiments, I am talking about real tools in real organizations. Did these experiments examine the impact of such emotional iconics on the productivity of real projects? Also, it is trivially easy to say "cool!" and "yawn...." with flat text. The reason this is not done very often in technical discussions is because it is usually counterproductive: the technical validity of something has little to do with whether it is pleasing or boring. >... >And as for the relative utility of email/netnews for technical information, >all I can say is that Nick is reading different enews than I. Even in good >groups such as this one, I find few nuggets of technical information. No wonder you hate news, if you think this is a "good" newsgroup! Try comp.lang.perl, which is the largest forum anywhere for discussion of that language. Perl is now widely used in the Unix community. It was distributed and taught mainly through that newsgroup (the first book is only now being published). The technical discussions, code examples, etc. are quite extensive. Try comp.sys.* groups for major computer manufacturers. Try comp.mail.* for discussion of the most widely used form of groupware. There are dozens of other comp.* newsgroups extensively used for real work. Try sci.military for reports on weapons and strategy being used in Iraq. Try sci.astro for astronomy. The international technical exchange occuring in the Unix field over netnews is unprecedented. Groupware is rapidly spreading new technical information around the planet. >more is contained in media which can carry multiple messages (such as tech >reports with text/pictures, demonstration videos with text/animation/ >pictures/sound, etc.) I agree that technical graphics can be useful, and in some limited circumstances animation, sound, and video have their place if the bandwidth is available. But in most cases the bandwidth is *not* avaiable, and sound and video are superfluous or even counterproductive to the technical communications task at hand. -- Nick Szabo szabo@sequent.com Embrace Change... Keep the Values... Hold Dear the Laughter...