brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (12/03/90)
In article <1990Dec2.200811.8581@iwarp.intel.com> merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal Schwartz) writes: > In article <109688@convex.convex.com>, tchrist@convex (Tom Christiansen) writes: > [some stuff I agree with] > I second this. And I'm sure Larry will too, but that won't solve the problem of people posting general programming problems to a language-specific group. As I said at length in my previous posting, I'm not going to redirect a thread to yet another inappropriate group just because I decided that C code explained something more effectively than words. > In fact, I've already told Dan in private email (for > which he flamed me back) Hardly. In fact, before you cut off communication, I asked very politely if you would explain what the parenthesis-matching thread had to do with the Perl language. I'm sorry you didn't reply. > Please keep off-charter postings off this newsgroup! I agree entirely. Please keep off-charter postings off this newsgroup! That way people responding to the postings won't be flamed for refusing to preserve the delusion implied by your mistake. ---Dan P.S. In case you're not sure, ``delusion'' here means the delusion that just because something is written in Perl means that it has anything to do with the Perl language. This is written using a natural language, but that doesn't make it appropriate for a linguistics group...
lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) (12/03/90)
In article <12052:Dec223:06:4090@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes: : In article <1990Dec2.200811.8581@iwarp.intel.com> merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal Schwartz) writes: : > In article <109688@convex.convex.com>, tchrist@convex (Tom Christiansen) writes: : > [some stuff I agree with] : > I second this. : : And I'm sure Larry will too, but that won't solve the problem of people : posting general programming problems to a language-specific group. As I : said at length in my previous posting, I'm not going to redirect a : thread to yet another inappropriate group just because I decided that C : code explained something more effectively than words. On the contrary. Much though I despise Dan's use of English as a club to pummel people into submission, I have to agree with him that we're here to solve people's problems. Comparative linguistics is part of the solution, and must happen in every newsgroup, not just comp.lang.*. Not only was the comparison between C and Perl instructive (including the followups, not just the original), but the comparison of how Dan and the rest of us communicate is also instructive. Seriously, I think it's great. Keep it up. It's all a big game, anyway, y'know. Larry
tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) (12/03/90)
In article <10279:Dec220:47:5990@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) whines, quoting me >> We've had a very flame-free, productive little >> group here since its inception, so let's keep it that way, OK? >You're the one who started flaming. I was just answering a programming >question. Apparently you don't know me very well. That was not a flame. That was a polite, reasoned exposition on why I felt that your postings in this group hadn't been what the posters were asking for. Were I to have actually flamed you, I assure you that no doubt would remained in anyone's mind of this deed. I honestly don't think 50% slower, when you're talking a difference of 68 versus 45 percent of a second, is all that meaningful. I vehemently disagree that it's worth recoding that in C. I write dozens of Perl programs every week, mostly system administrative ones. I simply don't have the time to do all that in C, and I will no more go back to using shell than Pascal. I'm not out to prove I can program in C; I'm out to get the job done as quickly as I can, preferably before the boss gets pissed at the delay and fires me. Most of what I program, although admittedly not all of it, is more expediently written using Perl. It still annoys me that when someone asks for an apple, they're given a tomato. Now, it is true that sometimes people don't realize that apples don't go well in spaghetti sauce. On the other hand, if you intentionally go to an Italian restaurant for dinner and every time you get a particular waiter, you find that the specials are for Szechuan, you begin to wonder what that waiter's real motive is. --tom -- -- Tom Christiasen tchrist@convex.com convex!tchrist "With a kernel dive, all things are possible, but it sure makes it hard to look at yourself in the mirror the next morning." (me)
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (12/04/90)
``How do I write a spreadsheet program in Perl?'' Yep, that should do it. In article <10613@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) writes: > Much though I despise Dan's use of English as a club > to pummel people into submission, When Benjamin Franklin found the strength of his logical arguments for the education of women overwhelmed by his opponent's style, he didn't whine about it. He started practicing his writing skills, with a set of exercises still widely respected today. He stopped losing arguments. Not that he really believed in educating women in the first place. ---Dan
lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) (12/04/90)
In article <24496:Dec400:23:4090@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes: : In article <10613@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) writes: : > Much though I despise Dan's use of English as a club : > to pummel people into submission, : : When Benjamin Franklin found the strength of his logical arguments for : the education of women overwhelmed by his opponent's style, he didn't : whine about it. He started practicing his writing skills, with a set of : exercises still widely respected today. He stopped losing arguments. : : Not that he really believed in educating women in the first place. At which point, my wife leans over my shoulder and says, "And they say that women always have to have the last word!" Larry
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (12/04/90)
In article <10625@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) writes: > At which point, my wife leans over my shoulder and says, "And they > say that women always have to have the last word!" At which point, a female friend opens my door and says, ``She doesn't know what she's talking about. Real men always have the last word!'' Hmmm. I like the accents on ``real'' and ``men'' there. But I'm afraid that we have digressed from the technical content of what used to be such a pleasant, technical little newsgroup. It's a shame that Tom felt it necessary to begin a nontechnical thread here, and that Randal felt it necessary to second Tom's opinions. So, in an honest attempt to gently ease us away from this discussion and into a topic more appropriate to comp.lang.perl, I'll ask: Larry, did you try out the checkpointer I sent? Any chance it might help perl -u work on machines where the Emacs code doesn't? There has been quite a bit of discussion about unexec() recently. ---Dan