[soc.religion.islam] Proposal for a Machine readable Qur'an

cmaguire@phoenix.princeton.edu (Camm Maguire) (12/07/89)

	Greetings!  While all the information on the availability of
a machine-readable Qur'an is not yet in, it seems as though most
copies will only be available commercially.  Or perhaps if we find a
copy in the public domain, it will probably be in Arabic and hence
illegible to most in the West.  Which leads me to the following
proposal.

	Would anyone be interested in typing a mutually acceptable
English version of the Qur'an?  The document is not that long, some
people memorize it.  I believe the Qur'an has some 6300 verses.  If
we get 63 people, say, that's one hundred verses a piece, a task
which can probably be completed over a weekend.  I have already
received notes from people interested in maintaining such a document
in the publically accessible directories of their machines.  Once
there, of course, the Qur'an would be available to any interested
English speaking person with access to the networks.

	In my opinion, such a project would greatly advance the
understanding of this great faith so frequently misunderstood in the
West.  

	Perhaps we should discuss this idea in this forum for a few
weeks, during which time I will continue to search for a previously
typed copy.  Some points that leap to my mind for discussion are:

	1) Is there interest in this project?  Who would be willing
to contribute typing time?  How much time could they afford to
spend? 

	2) What English translation of the Qur'an should we choose?
Many of you may know of the world scripture translation project
headed by Prince Charles.  I hear that in the near future, a new
English translation fully approved of by all leading Muslim scholars
will be produced.  We may want to wait for this translation to be
completed, or we may not.

	3) We need to decide on a procedure for quality control,
such as assigning a typer and a different proof-reader for each
section.

	I hope your as excited about this as I am!  

Peace!

Camm

	[Please send all replies to soc.religion.islam --Naim]

thamer@cis.ohio-state.edu (Mustafa Thamer) (12/07/89)

That sounds like a great idea.  Distributing the work to many, responsible
people is the best way.  I for one would contribute in the typing of 100
verses myself.  Unfortunately, like many other students, I will be away
for the Christmas break until the first week in January.

-Mustafa Thamer


-=-

				"Two days ago I saw a vehicle that'd
				 haul that tanker.  You wanna get out
				 of here; you talk to me."

naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah) (12/07/89)

Camm Maguire proposes a project for typing in an English translation
of the Quran and asks:

>	1) Is there interest in this project?  Who would be willing
>to contribute typing time?  How much time could they afford to
>spend? 

Certainly, there would be lots of interest in this project.
You can count me in (after Jan 21st, '90), on typing 100 verses.

>	2) What English translation of the Qur'an should we choose?
>Many of you may know of the world scripture translation project
>headed by Prince Charles.  I hear that in the near future, a new
>English translation fully approved of by all leading Muslim scholars
>will be produced.  We may want to wait for this translation to be
>completed, or we may not.

How about choosing an English translation that is in modern English
rather than the ones that usually use archaic English ? In a previous
posting, Asim Jalis mentioned a translation by Ahmed Ali that uses
contemporary English.

We probably do not want to wait for the translation from the world 
scripture project. Who knows when they will finish, and whether their
result will be any better than existing translations.

>	3) We need to decide on a procedure for quality control,
>such as assigning a typer and a different proof-reader for each
>section.

There are two possibilities:

1) Somebody with access to a scanner can scan in a whole translation.
This would ensure accuracy and also capture the Arabic text. However
the resultant output would be a bitmap image rather than ASCII text.
It would only be viewable on workstation monitors.

2) If we stick with the approach of an army of typists, then if we collect
126 (= 63 * 2) people, we can have two people independently do every
section. Every pair of outputs can be compared using UNIX text processing
tools to detect differences (there are variants of diff around that can do
this). If we can barely collect 63 people, then we can proofread each others
work.

What do other people think of Camm's proposal ? Here is a chance to volunteer
and make a difference!!

     Naim

thamer@cis.ohio-state.edu (Mustafa Thamer) (12/08/89)

In article <1890@accuvax.nwu.edu> naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah) writes:
>
>1) Somebody with access to a scanner can scan in a whole translation.
>This would ensure accuracy and also capture the Arabic text. However
>the resultant output would be a bitmap image rather than ASCII text.
>It would only be viewable on workstation monitors.
>
Not necessarily true, there a quite a few OCR packages that may be able
to pull the text off a bitmap image and produce ascii text.  These are
not cheap, and they are not perfect, but they do work.  Anyone have access
to one where you can selectively box the area of the image that you want
to convert to ascii?

-Mustafa Thamer
-=-

				"Two days ago I saw a vehicle that'd
				 haul that tanker.  You wanna get out
				 of here; you talk to me."

khan@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Iqbal Mustafa Khan) (12/08/89)

>
>	Would anyone be interested in typing a mutually acceptable
>English version of the Qur'an?  The document is not that long, some
>people memorize it.  I believe the Qur'an has some 6300 verses.  If

Count me in as one of those 63 people; I am willing to share 1/63 of the
typing.

>	2) What English translation of the Qur'an should we choose?
>Many of you may know of the world scripture translation project
>headed by Prince Charles.  I hear that in the near future, a new
>English translation fully approved of by all leading Muslim scholars
>will be produced.  We may want to wait for this translation to be
>completed, or we may not.
>

I have read the translation by Yussuf Ali and also another translation
published in Lebanon.  The latter one's translater (or reviser) is Mehmud
Y. Zayid and it is published by DAR AL-CHAURA.  This one is approved by
both the Sunni and Shia councils of Lebanon.  However, I think Yussuf Ali's
translation is probably the most widely accepted, even though it is not in
contemporary English.

>	3) We need to decide on a procedure for quality control,
>such as assigning a typer and a different proof-reader for each
>section.
>

Fully agree with you.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iqbal Mustafa Khan				khan@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
812-857-2863					Computer Science Department
						Indiana University
						Bloomington, Indiana
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

bmaruti (B Maruti) (12/09/89)

In article <1885@accuvax.nwu.edu> cmaguire@phoenix.princeton.edu writes:
>
>
>	Would anyone be interested in typing a mutually acceptable
>English version of the Qur'an?  The document is not that long, some
>people memorize it.  I believe the Qur'an has some 6300 verses.  If
>we get 63 people, say, that's one hundred verses a piece, a task
>which can probably be completed over a weekend.  I have already
>
>	In my opinion, such a project would greatly advance the
>understanding of this great faith so frequently misunderstood in the
>West.  
>

>
>Camm
>

   I endorse this idea.  I would be willing to contribute by either
  typing 100 verses or proofreading someone else's typing.  However,
  being non-Muslim, I do not have a copy of Quran.  I will be able 
  to borrow one from the library, but if most muslim netters settle
  on a particular version, perhaps I can get a xerox copy of the
  verses I have to type in or proofread.


  -   Maruti   bmaruti@wpi.wpi.edu

  [To the moderators:  I posted one article to soc.religion.islam
   but it didn't get posted.  Then I sent it to shari@wpi.wpi.edu,
   one of the moderators.  For the benefit of those who do not know
   where to send the articles, it would be better to periodically
   describe the procedure for posting or following-up on s.r.i. ]
  

ischick@BBN.COM (Irvin C. Schick) (12/12/89)

In article <1885@accuvax.nwu.edu> cmaguire@phoenix.princeton.edu
(Camm Maguire) writes:
>
>	Would anyone be interested in typing a mutually acceptable
>English version of the Qur'an?  The document is not that long, some
>people memorize it.  I believe the Qur'an has some 6300 verses.  If
>we get 63 people, say, that's one hundred verses a piece, a task
>which can probably be completed over a weekend.
>
>...
>
>	Perhaps we should discuss this idea in this forum for a few
>weeks, during which time I will continue to search for a previously
>typed copy.

Certainly an on-line version of any important text is better than no
on-line version at all, but I have some questions and concerns on the
subject of entering an English translation of the Qur'an.

1. One of the primary benefits of having a text on-line is to be able
   to perform searches on it. But an index and concordance to the Qur'an would
   serve this purpose just as well. Why then would we go through the trouble
   of entering the entire text?

2. Another benefit is to be able to perform various kinds of textual
   analysis. This, however, would necessitate an on-line version of the
   original Arabic text, not of a translation. Clearly, any analysis
   (stylistic etc.) conducted on a translation would only reflect the
   qualities of the translation, not of the original.

3. Finally, while I am not Muslim, I expect that some Muslims might be
   concerned about the maintenance and disposal of the on-line Qur'an and
   of printouts made from it. After all, it would not be desirable for
   computer paper onto which verses of the Qur'an were printed to be used
   to line someone's garbage can.

All this said, I would participate if it is decided to go ahead with this
project.

Irvin

araja@m2.csc.ti.com (Ali Raja) (12/14/89)

>	Would anyone be interested in typing a mutually acceptable
>English version of the Qur'an?  The document is not that long, some
>people memorize it.  

:-).  They also spend about two years doing it. :-)

>I believe the Qur'an has some 6300 verses.  If
>we get 63 people, say, that's one hundred verses a piece, a task
>which can probably be completed over a weekend.  

I doubt that you will be able to get 63 people, and be able to 
co-ordinate them easily.  I have access to a scanner which scans
printed text and deciphers it back into ASCII format.  Assuming
about 1/2 a minute a page, and at 7 verses (translated etc.) to
the page I calculate (shut up, Seggev :-]) about 500 minutes or 
so - should be able to do it within a weekend.  It is not perfect
though; it does make mistakes, so it'll have to be proofread;
errors should be obvious - they'll be spellings mostly, and to make
sure that I have not missed/duplicated a page.  

[I also found a scanner with optical character recognition software
 attached to a MacIntosh here at Northwestern. Basalat and I with
 the scanners, and the 20-30 typists that Camm mentioned, should be
 able to get this project finished in a month or two inshallah. --Naim]
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