bro@eunomia.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) (11/08/90)
In article <1990Nov3.210105.11983@nntp-server.caltech.edu> gordon@cssun.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) writes:
[...]
#This is very interesting. I have also found the following (from the
#translation by N. J. Dawood, Penguin Books) Surah 17, verse 103:
#
#"He [Pharaoh - mentioned in the previous verse] sought to scare them out
#of the land: but We drowned him, together with all who were with him.
#Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land. When the promise of
# ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'"
#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#
#This definitely reads as a promise by God to the Israelites that in the
#times shortly preceding the "hereafter", He will gather them all together.
#It is entirely in agreement with the other above-mentioned prophecies in
#the Bible.
As a lesson concerning reading too much into a particular translation,
and relying on translations in the first place, consider the following
differing translations of Surah 17 v.104:
N.J. Dawood: "Then We said to the Israelites: `Dwell in this land.
When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall
assemble you all together.'"
Yusuf `Ali: "And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, `Dwell
securely in the land (of promise)': but when the second of the warnings
came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd."
Muhammad Pickthall: "And We said unto the Children of Israel after
him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh
to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various
nations."
A.J. Arberry: "And We said to the Children of Israel after him, `Dwell
in the land; and when the promise of the world to come comes to pass,
We shall bring you a rabble."
How do they reach these variations? Let's turn to the original and build
from there:
In transliteration (adapted from "The Holy Qur'aan: Transliteration in Roman
Script" by M.A. H_aleem Eliasii. Note that this is a *pronunciation*
transliteration, so the word by word transliteration/translation below
will vary slightly as I convert to a *spelling* transliteration.):
"Wa qulnaa mim-ba`-dihii li-Baniii-'Israaa-'iilas-kunul-'ard_a
fa-'idhaa jaaa-'a wa`-dul-'aakhirati ji'-naa bikum lafii-faa."
On a word-by-word basis with translations:
"Wa"
"And". Many sequences of sentences in Arabic begin with "Wa", so
not always translated literally.
"qulnaa"
"We said". First person plural capitalized in English because Allah
is original speaker.
"min"
"of". "n" followed by "b" in next word pronounced "m".
"ba`-dihii"
"after him". "-ihii" is a suffix for "him" etc.
"li"
"to"
"Baniii 'Israaa-'iil"
"Children of Israel". Often "banii" translates as "tribe".
"as-kunuu"
"dwell (in)". (imperative second person plural)
"ul-'ard_a"
"the earth". Compare with "balad" = "country".
"fa"
"then".
"'idhaa"
"when".
"jaaa-'a"
"comes". (Root is j-y-', perfect active): to come, to do, commit.
"wa`-du"
"promise" (verbal noun of w-`-d: to promise, threaten)
"ul-'aakhirati"
"the Hereafter". (also: "the Next World", "the World to Come" etc.).
"ji'-naa"
"We will bring" (Root is j-y-', perfect active second person plural
with preposition "bi-"): to bring, produce.
"bikum"
"by means of you" ("bi-" = "with", etc. and "-ikum" = "you")
"lafii-faan."
"an assembly".
Put it all together:
(First line: transliteration from above)
(Second line: translation from above)
(Third line: "smoothed" translation)
"Wa qulnaa min ba`-dihii li Baniii 'Israaa-'iil as-kunuu"... a)
"And We said of after him to Children of Israel dwell (in)"... a)
"And We said after him to the Children of Israel: `Dwell in"... a)
"ul-'ard_a fa 'idhaa jaaa-'a Wa`du ul-'aakhirati ji'-naa"... b)
"the earth then when comes promise the Hereafter We will bring"... b)
"the earth; when [the promise of the Hereafter comes] We will bring"... b)
"bikum lafii-faan". c)
"by means of you an assembly". c)
"by means of you an assembly'". c)
Turning back to those previously quoted translations with added (notes)
of my own:
N.J. Dawood: "Then We said to the Israelites: `Dwell in this land.
^^^^(a)
When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall
assemble you all together.'"
Note (a): "this" would seem to be unjustified here.
Yusuf `Ali: "And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, `Dwell
securely in the land (of promise)': but when the second of the warnings
^^^^^^^^(b) ^^^^^^^^^^^^(c) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(d)
came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd."
Note (b): "Securely" is probably not needed, if reflecting a connotation of
"rest" or "repose", the verb would be translated as "become tranquil (in)"
rather than "dwell securely (in)".
Note (c): "(of promise)" is *not* a translator's interpolation, but rather
a *commentator*'s interpolation, and properly belongs in a footnote, *not*
in an interpolatory comment in the translation (in my opinion). It seems
unjustified here in any event.
Note (d): Completely unjustified in the original Arabic. In the commentary,
there is a remark that "Some Commentators understand the second warning to
be the Day of Judgment, the Promise of the Hereafter.", so this may be a
major typographical error, where the commentary and the actual translation
were switched somehow.
Muhammad Pickthall: "And We said unto the Children of Israel after
him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh
to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^...
nations."
^^^^^^^(e)
Note (e): This is probably intended as interpolation, but to me borders on
commentary. Of course, "assembly" implies gathering from other places, but
"out of various nations" is a little too explicit for my taste.
A.J. Arberry: "And We said to the Children of Israel after him, `Dwell
in the land; and when the promise of the world to come comes to pass,
We shall bring you a rabble."
^^^^^^^^(f)
Note (f): "mob, rabble, riffraff" in modern Arabic is "lafiif-an-naas".
"al-naas" pronounced "an-naas", = "the people", thus an "assembly of
people" is a "mob", "rabble", etc. If "lafiif" by itself has this
more perjorative connotation in Qur'anic Arabic, I cannot tell.
Closing comments:
No existing translation of the Qur'an is satisfactory to me: Too many
errors, too much unfortunate interpolation, too many personal agendas
of translators intruding.
Of the ones I list here, I would put Pickthall at the top, then Yusuf
`Ali (especially the new Saudi edition that corrects some of the
errors), then maybe Arberry. Each has problems, though. I don't really
recommend Dawood (he scrambles the order of the surahs and I often
don't trust his translation: just look at what inserting "this" in the
above does to create spurious implications).
Doug Monk (bro@rice.edu)
Disclaimer: These views are mine, not necessarily my organization's.zama@midway.uchicago.edu (iftikhar uz zaman) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov8.014434.27292@nntp-server.caltech.edu> bro@eunomia.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) provides an excellent rendition of some of the problems of translations (thank you). One point which he omitted which, perhaps, to a second level of problems, is the one of the reference for "ba`dihi" (and we said to them after **him**...). Pickthall and Arberry maintain this while the other two translators seem to just swallow it under the "thereafter/ and then" formulation... >N.J. Dawood: "Then We said to the Israelites: `Dwell in this land. >When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall >assemble you all together.'" >Yusuf `Ali: "And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, `Dwell >securely in the land (of promise)': but when the second of the warnings >came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd." >Muhammad Pickthall: "And We said unto the Children of Israel after >him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh >to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various >nations." >A.J. Arberry: "And We said to the Children of Israel after him, `Dwell >in the land; and when the promise of the world to come comes to pass, >We shall bring you a rabble." This "him" might be significant since in the sentence preceding this one, the destruction of the Pharoah has been referred to. It would seem natural that now, the reference is to him. And this would, perhaps, bring into play the context of the whole passage--so that someone *might* be justified in adding to "the land" and saying "the land [you had been promised]..." >Closing comments: >No existing translation of the Qur'an is satisfactory to me: Too many >errors, too much unfortunate interpolation, too many personal agendas >of translators intruding. See below. >Of the ones I list here, I would put Pickthall at the top, then Yusuf >`Ali (especially the new Saudi edition that corrects some of the >errors), then maybe Arberry. Each has problems, though. I don't really >recommend Dawood (he scrambles the order of the surahs and I often >don't trust his translation: just look at what inserting "this" in the >above does to create spurious implications). I think that translation of something like the Quran (which has been read and re-read, been interpreted and re-interpreted) is something which has to take a number of decades of careful translators giving it their best--unfortunately, so far we don't even have care in translation, nor has it, in my opinion, been given the care it deserves. In Urdu I have found Bayan al-Quran to have the best approach to this problem. The author makes his decision in translating the text, as any translator must. But, in the margins he has "mulhaqat al-turjama" ("addenda (?) to the translation") in which he allows us to follow him and as he makes his choices at every turn in the road, he allows us to see why he turned away from one reading and towards another. In this way he is able to avoid attempting the impossible task of a "readerless reading" implicit in trying to translate without agenda; but he avoids his translation becoming a straitjacket... >Doug Monk (bro@rice.edu) >Disclaimer: These views are mine, not necessarily my organization's. -- La yajrimannakum shan'anu qawmin `ala an-ta`dilu; i`dilu huwa aqrubu li al-taqwa... *ROUGH* rendering: "Let not the enmity of a people incite you to injustice; be just, this is closer to piety" zama@ellis.uchicago.edu xpszama@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu