gt8145a@prism.gatech.edu (FADEL,AYMAN HOSSAM) (11/08/90)
[Moderator's note: replies must remain relevant to Islam. -Behnam]
salam,
A number of netters have asked about muslims/islam's position towards
Jews. I've tried to translate relevant sections of books written
by scholars to try to give this issue some distance from the issue
of palestine.
The first translation i will post is from talbis iblis, by al-hafiz
al-imam jamal al-din Abul-faraj abd el-rahman ibn al-jawzi al-bagh-
dadi, may God have mercy on him. he died in 597 a.h., which would
be about the thirteenth century of the common era.
Talbis Iblis (lit. "Satan's Deception") is about the various errors
groups of people have made in their beliefs. His most bitter
criticisms are directed towards the kharijites, the Ismailis, and
the philosophers (in among muslims.
He also talks about sun worshippers, idolators, the Zorastrians, the
hindus, Christians and others.
The following is my translation, which is poor but i hope will be
adequate. For brevity, I have removed the chains of narration.
{ } indicates a quotation from the Quran.
Mentioning [Satan's] Deception of the Jews
Satan has deceived them in many things, of which I will only mention
a few as evidence of this. They include their finding similarities
between the Creator and His creation. If this was true, then He would
be exposed to the same things [creation] is exposed to. Abu abd allah
ibn hamid reported from one of our professors that the Jews claim
that the worshipped God is a man made of light who sits on a chair
made of light and that He has a crown of light on His head. Also,
He has body parts like humans. Also, the Jews maintain that Uzair
(Ezra?) is the son of God. However, if they understood the true
nature of sonship, which goes under the category of parts [i.e. someness,
the son is part of the father], and that the Creator cannot be
divided into parts because there is nothing comparable to Him, they
would not have attributed sonship to Uzair.
Furthermore, a son has the attributes of his father, and Uzair was
in need of food and a god is that upon which things depend for
existence, not that which depends on things for its existence.
What caused them to make this error, besides their ignorance of
the true nature of things, was that they saw him return and read
the Towrah (the revelation revealed to Prophet Moses, may peace
be upon him] after he had died. So they began to try to explain
this with their spoiled suppositions, [and this heresy was the
result.]
That they were a people at a distance from
rationality is evidenced by their seeing the result of God's
power in his splitting the sea for them and then their asking
for idols like the ones of [the people they met in Sinai].
So they said [to Moses] : { Give us a god like they have gods }.
So when Moses prevented them from doing this, there remained some
resentment hidden in their breasts. Then the hidden became
apparent when they began to worship the calf.
Two things made them do this. The first is their ignorance of
the Creator and the second is that they wanted that which comforts
the senses. This desire of theirs is due to the predominance of
the senses over them and their distance from reason. And if they
weren't ignorant of the Worshipped One they would not have
had the gall to say { God is poor and we are rich }
nor { God's hand is in chains } [i.e., He is unable to help
the believers at this time.]
------------- My comments -------
By rationality ('aql), al-jawzi is not referring to the pure
reason of the philosophers, which he rejects. He only means
a common sense type rationality espoused by traditional
jurists. He also accused the idol worshippers of lack of
reason.
To be continued
If you feel this is a useless excercise, please write me
so I don't waste more time. Salam, aymangt8145a@prism.gatech.edu (FADEL,AYMAN HOSSAM) (11/08/90)
[Moderator's note: all replies must remain relevant to Islam. -Behnam]
al-jawzi continues:
The Jews also say that no law can be abrogated. But they know that
in the religion of Adam marrying one's sisters was permitted, and
others whom it's now forbidden to marry. Also, working during
the Sabath was permitted. Then that was abrogated with Moses's law.
They say "If god ordered a thing, then it must be wisdom
and it's impermissible for it to be changed." I would
respond: "Change may be in certain circumstances wisdom. For
example, when a healthy human becomes ill and dies, that is
wisdom [from God]. Moreover, God forbade you [Jews] from
working on Saturday yet allowed you to work on Sunday, and that's
abrogation, which you supposedly reject. Also, god ordered
abraham to sacrifice his son and then forbade him from that.
Another one of Satan's deceptions is their belief that { The Fire
will not touch us except for a few days. } and those days
are the days in which they worshipped the calf. Their
scandals are numerous. Additionally, Satan drove them
to pure stubborness so they denied the description of our
prophet (may peace be upon him) which was in their book. They changed
it when they were ordered to believe in him. Thus they chose
the punishment of the Hereafter.
Their scholars were stubborn and the ignorant among them imitated
the scholars.
The strange thing is that they changed what they were ordered to
do, interpreted it wrongly, and made their desires their religion.
So where is the quality of worship in one who abandons an order and
obeys his whims?
Furthermore, they used to disobey Moses and find faults in him. They
even said that he was aadar [the editor says it means "with puffed
up testicles and it is a sexual defect"] and that he killed Aaron
and they accused David [of an affair] with the wife of Uuriya [?].
Abu huraira said: The Prophet went to the midras [the worship
house for Jews] and said, "Bring out your most learned one." so
Abdallah ibn Surya came out and they went walking alone together.
So the Prophet reminded him of his duty to God in his religion, the
many favors God had granted [the Jews], the mann and salwa He had
fed them [in the desert], and how He had protected the Jews from
the clouds of dust. Then the Prophet said, "Do you all not know
that I am the Prophet of God?" He said, "By God, yes, and indeed
the people know what I know. Indeed, your description and identi-
fying mark are plain in the Tawrah. But they are jealous of you."
So the Prophet said: "Well, what prevents you [from following me?]"
He said, "I hate to seperate from my people, and perhaps they
will follow you and become muslims at which point I would convert."
Salma ibn salama ibn Qishsh said: "In the houses of the clan of
Abd al-ashhal there was a Jewish neighbor. One day before the revelation
came to the Prophet he came out to the gathering of Abd al-ashhal. At
that time I was the youngest one present. i was wearing coat with a
hood in which I was reclining on the porch of my family's house. [The
Jewish neighbor] started mentioning the resurrection and the accounting
and the scales [of reward and punishment] and Heaven and Hell. he said
all this to polytheists and idol worshippers who did not believe in life
after death. So those present said to him, "Woe there, man. Do you
really see this as happening, that people will come to life after
they die to a world in which there is a paradise and a fire, from
which they escape by virtue of their actions?" He responded, "Yes, I
swear by the One upon Whom oaths are taken. [It is a fire such that]
,if you tasted a moment of it,
you would wish that the biggest knife in your home could be sharpened
and thrust inside of you and turned, if it would repreive you for a day
from the fire." So they said, "Woe there, what's the proof of that?"
He said, "A prophet that will appear from around these parts", and
he pointed towards Mekka and yemen. So they said, "When will we
see him?" He looked at me, and I was among the youngest of the whole
clan, and said, "If this boy lives out his life span he'll see him."
And by God, not a single day passed God revealed the [first revelation]
to His prophet. So this Jew was living among us when we became
believers, but he rejected [the Prophet] in transgression and
jealousy. So I said to him, "Woe to you, Mr. so and so. Weren't
you the one who told us about the Prophet what you had told us?"
He answered, "yes, but that is not him."
To be continuedzvs@bby.oz.au (Zev Sero) (11/13/90)
Ayman = gt8145a@prism.gatech.edu (FADEL,AYMAN>>>>> HOSSAM) Talbis = Talbis Iblis, by al-hafiz al-imam jamal al-din Abul-faraj abd el-rahman ibn al-jawzi al-baghdadi (13th cent.) Talbis> a few as evidence of this. They include their finding similarities Talbis> between the Creator and His creation. If this was true, then He would Talbis> be exposed to the same things [creation] is exposed to. Moshe ben Maimun, in Hilchot Yesodei Hatorah, chapter 1, makes exactly the same point. This is why Jews do not, in fact, make this claim. Talbis> Abu abd allah Talbis> ibn hamid reported from one of our professors that the Jews claim Talbis> that the worshipped God is a man made of light who sits on a chair Talbis> made of light and that He has a crown of light on His head. Also, Talbis> He has body parts like humans. Again, the professor was wrong. Jews explicitly deny such a belief. Talbis> Also, the Jews maintain that Uzair Talbis> (Ezra?) is the son of God. However, if they understood the true Talbis> nature of sonship, which goes under the category of parts [i.e. someness, Talbis> the son is part of the father], and that the Creator cannot be Talbis> divided into parts because there is nothing comparable to Him, they Talbis> would not have attributed sonship to Uzair. Talbis> Furthermore, a son has the attributes of his father, and Uzair was Talbis> in need of food and a god is that upon which things depend for Talbis> existence, not that which depends on things for its existence. Once again, a valid point which becomes irrelevant once one realises that it is based on a false premise. I have never heard of anyone considering Ezra to be the son of God. Ezra was not even a prophet. He was merely an extremely righteous and learned man, who was one of the greatest figures in Jewish history. His importance in Jewish history is on a level with that of Moses, Rabbi Akiva, Rambam, and a very few others, but he was no more than a man.