gordon@CSSUN.TAMU.EDU (Dan Gordon) (10/25/90)
I have some fundamental questions regarding Islam's attitude towards Israel. 1. I know that some prophets mentioned in the Bible (old testament) are also honored by Islam. Now, many of these prophets prophesied the return of the Jews (or Israelites) to their land. What is the attitude of Islam towards these prophecies? 2. This is a highly theoretical question. I know that Islam's attitude towards Israel is basically negative. However, since the start of Zionism, the Muslims have been unable to prevent the success of this movement. My question is related to the fact that (as I understand it) the meaning of Islam is fundamentally a submission of one's will to God. Is it theoretically possible for Islam to consider Israel's existence as (a part of) the will of God? In other words, could the (relative) success of Zionism - in the face of strong opposition - be considered by Islam to be the result of God's will? I would appreciate sincere and knowledgeable replies to these questions and not just flames or mere rhetoric.
bes@tybalt.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) (10/25/90)
Mr. Gordon writes: " I have some fundamental questions regarding Islam's attitude towards Israel. 1. I know that some prophets mentioned in the Bible (old testament) are also honored by Islam. Now, many of these prophets prophesied the return of the Jews (or Israelites) to their land. What is the " attitude of Islam towards these prophecies? I don't know about the nature of such prophecies in the Jewish Bible. But assuming that such prophecies exist, then Moslems are not bound to accept them as valid since the Islamic view of the Bible (as it exists today) is that it is not entirely the word of God. Moslems believe that there once existed a "Taurah" which was revelation from God to Moses. But this revelation suffered changes through time so that what is left today isn't pure. He further writes: 2. This is a highly theoretical question. I know that Islam's attitude towards Israel is basically negative. However, since the start of Zionism, the Muslims have been unable to prevent the success of this movement. My question is related to the fact that (as I understand it) the meaning of Islam is fundamentally a submission of one's will to God. Is it theoretically possible for Islam to consider Israel's existence as (a part of) the will of God? In other words, could the (relative) success of Zionism - in the face of strong opposition - be considered by Islam to be the result of God's will? Unfortunately, there is a lot of evil in this world that neither Moslems nor others have been able prevent, no matter how hard they have tried. That doesn't at all mean that, God forbid, it's God who wills such evil and that therefore pious people should submit to the evil. Behnam Sadeghi
ghouse@server.cs.jhu.edu (10/27/90)
>I have some fundamental questions regarding Islam's attitude >towards Israel. > I would appreciate sincere and knowledgeable replies to these > questions and not just flames or mere rhetoric. I will do my best, insha'Allah. > 1. I know that some prophets mentioned in the Bible (old testament) > are also honored by Islam. Now, many of these prophets prophesied > the return of the Jews (or Israelites) to their land. What is the > attitude of Islam towards these prophecies? I'm not sure if one could attribute an attitude to *Islam*, but some *muslim* discussions that I'm aware of have taken the attitude that the prophesies were made in exile, in Babylon, and referred to a state that would be formed after the exile was over. The Children of Israel were led out of exile and later formed their own state (under the Asmonaean dynasty? and the Maccabees?); it was this state that fulfilled the prophesies; Also, in the Qur'an (surah 17, verses 5-7, I think) there is a speach to the Children of Israel, discussing how they were *twice* given great favours, twice broke their covenant with God, and were twice punished. This would seem to imply a reference to the state after the return from exile. The two punishments would be the conquest by the Assyrians that ended the first state, and the acts of the Romans (around 70 CE I think) after a rebellion in Palestine, that caused the destruction of the temple, and of the last vestiges of a Jewish state (which was in any case under Roman suzerainty by that time.) > 2. This is a highly theoretical question. I know that Islam's > attitude towards Israel is basically negative. However, since the > start of Zionism, the Muslims have been unable to prevent the > success of this movement. My question is related to the fact that > (as I understand it) the meaning of Islam is fundamentally a > submission of one's will to God. Is it theoretically possible for > Islam to consider Israel's existence as (a part of) the will of > God? In other words, could the (relative) success of Zionism - in > the face of strong opposition - be considered by Islam to be the > result of God's will? According to Islam, everything is the result of God's will. In the Qur'an, after the speach I referred to above, is the following verse: (surah 17, verse 8) "It may be that your Lord may (yet) show mercy unto you; but if ye revert (to your sins) We shall revert (to Our punishments) and We have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith)." (the translation is from Yusuf Ali) the context is of a speech to the Children of Israel, and seems to imply a possible third state. (Also, many muslims believe that the establishment of Israel, and the previous success of the colonial powers, is a warning or punishment.) I hope this has been neither a flame nor mere rhetoric. May I be saved from misleading and from being misled, insha'Allah. As salaamu alaikum (Peace be upon you) -Mujtaba Ghouse
yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (10/27/90)
If we accept this logic, then every evil can be considered the will
of god. This seems to be the predominant logic in the 20th century, but
totally rejected by all true religions including Islam. In fact this is
probably the basis of the Western politics : might makes right.
The fact that an evil survives for a while does not legitimize the evil.
In Islamic perspective, to my view, the fact that an evil like the state
of Israel (but not Jews) can survive for some times is not unusual. The
feros of egypt lasted much longer but were finally destroyed. And you can
find many more examples of evil nations throughout history with the same
destiny.
In fact in the region of Palestine there has been several takeovers by
different groups and nations but Muslim has been able to regain their land.
Allah says in Quran that god will not change the conditions of a nation until
they change it themselves. This is the Islamic view. Mankind is partially
responsible for his destiny. I say partially because we realistically accept
that there is determinism, but also understand that we can exercise our will
to change many things around us.
When an evil like the state of Israel lasts for some times in the heart of
the Muslim land, this will not make us doubt about the word of Allah. However
we Muslims should seriously doubt our determination in responding to the word
of Allah (i.e the removal of evil). The fact that we were not able to solve
this problem shows the weakness of Muslims, not Islam.
Islam can not accept, or even tolerate the existence of such an immoral and
corrupt government in the Muslim land. With the will of Allah, when the
Muslim
nation is awakened and united, they will be able to remove this problem.
Only the will and determination of all Muslims can determine the course of the
history.yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (10/31/90)
It seems that zama is interested in philosophical discussions which is
not my interest and to my believe does not relate at all to the subject.
A gentleman asks weather the fact that Israel have survived may hint
Muslims that Israel is righteous and thus justified.
My respond was that the survival of Israel hinges on the backwardness
of Muslims of which is the believe that since what Allah wills, happens
there is no reason for action. If one believes that his/her will does not
count why should they move. And this attitude is partly responsible for the
existence of the state of Israel. I have no doubt that Israelis loves us
to think in this manner. They don't mind us praying all day long. In fact they
prefer praying over throwing stone. As long as your belief is not put into
action is harmless an thus acceptable to them.
I strongly reject the idea that mankind has no will of himself. This idea
degrades humans to the level of animals. In the story of the creation of
man, Allah distinguishes man from other creations by making him godlike.
In fact he revolted against the word of Allah because of the will that was
given to him by Allah and that is why we are here.
>From what I have read and heard, one of the conditions for the appearance of
Mahdi is the presence of his followers. Those who strive for the cause of
Allah but do not have the means and power necessary to take over the evil.
It is very unfortunate that today Americans, Israelis, and Russians are forcing
their will on us and we are discussing whether we have any will from ourselves?
Unless we do not decide to do something about Israel nothing will happen.hermetic@byron.u.washington.edu (Heracleitos the Obscure) (10/31/90)
As I understand it, Islam mandates tolerance of (at least) the 'people of the
book' (is this to be understood as only Jews and Christians?); thus (and I
would welcome correction of any error) any differences a pious Muslim would
have with the State of Israel would (theoretically) have a political and >not<
a religious basis. Certainly Islamic countries have historically been more
tolerant of Jews and Christians than Christian states have been of Muslims and
Jews (at least generally and until very recent times).
Peace be unto you
Joshua Gellersoudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) (11/02/90)
In article <1990Oct24.214836.7874@nntp-server.caltech.edu> bes@tybalt.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes: >Unfortunately, there is a lot of evil in this world that neither >Moslems nor others have been able prevent, no matter how hard they >have tried. That doesn't at all mean that, God forbid, it's God >who wills such evil and that therefore pious people should submit >to the evil. > >Behnam Sadeghi In the article he wrote a lot of other stuff that is not really what I had a problem with. What I have a problem with is a trend that I have seen going on in this group. The trend is when people start debating whether evil occurs by the will of God. To all of you who are reading this I have one question : Since we all believe that God is Al-mighty and that he has complete control over the universe and every thing in it, do you REALLY think that some- thing can happen against the will of God???? If your answer is yes and you can prove it, then what prevents some- thing else from happenning against the will of God? That means (God forbid) that God does not know what is going on or that he does not have complete control over what is going on. I ask everyone of you to ask himself this same question (I may have not done such a good job of stating it, but you know what I am talking about.) NOTHING IN THIS WORLD HAPPENS WITHOUT THE WILL AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. (PERIOD) The question why would God permit evil to happen has a couple of answers that I can think of right now. 1- We all know that God tests those who believe in him. His tests can be in any thing. The existance of the state of Israel is such a test. God is testing those who believe in him and he is trying to see how much do they believe him when he tells them that if they fight for him to remove evil and injustice he will be with them, send them his help, and reward them ever lasting heavens in the here after. When one of us is faced with a problem (no matter how small or how large) he should always think "this is a test from God for me and I have to excell in it so that God would reward me with what he had promissed me." Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said that if God loves a person he will test him/her. Why? because he wants to make sure (and he knows) that this person truely believes in him and loves him. 2- The second answer is that as prophet Mohammad said once, God will make the good pay for their sins in this life so that when they get to the here after there is nothing more for them to make up. Muslims recieve their punishment in this life and their reward latter, while others recieve their pleasures now and when it is time for them to meet their creator, there won't be anything for them except all the evil that they have committed so they get punished for it. I don't want to carry this any longer, but I hope that before we sit and start writting articles back and forth, we make sure that the ideas about God are clear in our own minds before we try to axplain them to others. I am very glad that this discussion has beem started on this group so that we can finally have something to look forward to whenever we login to this machine. Also this discussion can help all of us (me at the beginning of the list) to shake the dust of of our minds and start thinking about this life we live again. And can help instruct those of us (like me) not well schooled in the facts of Islam about this great religion of ours. I bid you all peace and happiness and I wish I did not offend anybody on this net with what I wrote and ask that If you disagree to tell me about it. Bassel
zama@midway.uchicago.edu (iftikhar uz zaman) (11/02/90)
In article <1990Oct30.161757.31233@wpi.WPI.EDU> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >It seems that zama is interested in philosophical discussions which is >not my interest and to my believe does not relate at all to the subject. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Actually I am not at all interested in "philosophical discussions." But it does concern me when I hear a Muslim attribute "fate" (qadar) to himself. And I feel a kinship towards someone who feels forced towards taking this position: believing in "La hawla wa la quwatta illa billah" ("there is no power over performing [good deeds] and no ability [to avoid bad one] except by the will of God" along with a lot of the other sentences in the Quran which suggest that all good and evil circumstance are from Allah ("ma asabakum min musibatin fa min Allah"--whatever difficulties come to you are from Allah...); believing all these things seems to be a part of believing "la ilaha illa Allah." THIS, I think, is important. THIS should not be given up. And it is this which I see people as being forced to give up when faced with the dillemma of "well if Allah destined it, how can you fight against it?" One solution is to say, Allah did not destine it--we caused it. *This* is something which I think no Muslim should allow himself to think. And, I was offerring a way of understanding La ilaha illa Allaha which would *not* force people to abandon, what seems to me, to be a direct demand of la ilaha illa Allah. I think one has to be careful, even commit the crime of thinking "philosophically" when it comes to questions that relate so closely to belief in la ilaha illa Allah. And especially when it comes to questions that *are* philosophical. You say: >I strongly reject the idea that mankind has no will of himself. This idea >degrades humans to the level of animals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You see, this, too, is philosophising. And I was trying to show that this conclusion is *not* necessary. Everything we disagree with is not necessary something Israel, America and the Zionists have foisted on us. Everything we do not understand is not necessarily something which Israel, America and Zionists have foisted on us. Iftikhar Wa assalam u aliykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu -- La yajrimannakum shan'anu qawmin `ala an-ta`dilu; i`dilu huwa aqrubu li al-taqwa... zama@ellis.uchicago.edu xpszama@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu
gordon@cs.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) (11/05/90)
In article <1990Oct27.003113.10678@wpi.WPI.EDU> ghouse@server.cs.jhu.edu writes:
<
Gordon:
<> 1. I know that some prophets mentioned in the Bible (old testament)
<> are also honored by Islam. Now, many of these prophets prophesied
<> the return of the Jews (or Israelites) to their land. What is the
<> attitude of Islam towards these prophecies?
<
<I'm not sure if one could attribute an attitude to *Islam*, but some
<*muslim* discussions that I'm aware of have taken the attitude that
<the prophesies were made in exile, in Babylon, and referred to a state
<that would be formed after the exile was over. The Children of Israel
<were led out of exile and later formed their own state (under the
<Asmonaean dynasty? and the Maccabees?); it was this state that fulfilled
<the prophesies;
<
<Also, in the Qur'an (surah 17, verses 5-7, I think) there is a speach to
<the Children of Israel, discussing how they were *twice* given great favours,
<twice broke their covenant with God, and were twice punished. This would
<seem to imply a reference to the state after the return from exile.
<The two punishments would be the conquest by the Assyrians that ended the
<first state, and the acts of the Romans (around 70 CE I think) after a
<rebellion in Palestine, that caused the destruction of the temple, and
<of the last vestiges of a Jewish state (which was in any case under Roman
<suzerainty by that time.)
Yes, but there are also specific prophecies (in the Bible) regarding the
return of the Jews to Zion (as it is called mostly in those prophecies)
from many countries in the world. These prophecies cannot refer to the
return from Babylon, because that was just one place. Interestingly
enough, there is also a reference to this in the Koran - see below. So
what I am really asking is whether Islamic scholars have ever considered
this question, and if so, what is their attitude to it?
Gordon:
<> 2. This is a highly theoretical question. I know that Islam's
<> attitude towards Israel is basically negative. However, since the
<> start of Zionism, the Muslims have been unable to prevent the
<> success of this movement. My question is related to the fact that
<> (as I understand it) the meaning of Islam is fundamentally a
<> submission of one's will to God. Is it theoretically possible for
<> Islam to consider Israel's existence as (a part of) the will of
<> God? In other words, could the (relative) success of Zionism - in
<> the face of strong opposition - be considered by Islam to be the
<> result of God's will?
<
<According to Islam, everything is the result of God's will. In the
<Qur'an, after the speach I referred to above, is the following verse:
<(surah 17, verse 8)
<
<"It may be that your Lord may (yet) show mercy unto you; but if ye revert
<(to your sins) We shall revert (to Our punishments) and We have made Hell
<a prison for those who reject (all Faith)."
<
<(the translation is from Yusuf Ali)
<
<the context is of a speech to the Children of Israel, and seems to imply
<a possible third state. (Also, many muslims believe that the establishment
<of Israel, and the previous success of the colonial powers, is a warning
<or punishment.)
This is very interesting. I have also found the following (from the
translation by N. J. Dawood, Penguin Books) Surah 17, verse 103:
"He [Pharaoh - mentioned in the previous verse] sought to scare them out
of the land: but We drowned him, together with all who were with him.
Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land. When the promise of
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This definitely reads as a promise by God to the Israelites that in the
times shortly preceding the "hereafter", He will gather them all together.
It is entirely in agreement with the other above-mentioned prophecies in
the Bible.gwydion@tavi.rice.edu (Basalat Ali Raja) (11/05/90)
In article <1990Oct30.162059.5042@wpi.WPI.EDU> hermetic@byron.acs.washington.edu (Heracleitos the Obscure) writes: >As I understand it, Islam mandates tolerance of (at least) the 'people of the >book' (is this to be understood as only Jews and Christians?); thus (and I >would welcome correction of any error) any differences a pious Muslim would >have with the State of Israel would (theoretically) have a political and >not< >a religious basis. Certainly Islamic countries have historically been more >tolerant of Jews and Christians than Christian states have been of Muslims and >Jews (at least generally and until very recent times). I understand that at least in the US, there is a very fine line between politics and religion. Such is not the case with Islam. Israel has taken over Muslim lands, and still holds them, refusing to acknowledge th eexistence of the state of Palestine. Furthermore, it insists on brutalizing the Palestinians and jailing them when they try to protest. Given this, it is difficult to not view Israel in an unfavourable light. This view is as much religious as political; an unjust and brutal occupation is never somewthing that can be ignored. The same goes for Russia's attempted occupation of Afghanistan, as well as for South Africa and even some Arab regimes which utilize a similar brutality.
soudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov3.210105.11983@nntp-server.caltech.edu> gordon@cssun.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) writes: > Interestingly >enough, there is also a reference to this in the Koran - see below. So >what I am really asking is whether Islamic scholars have ever considered >this question, and if so, what is their attitude to it? > [ a lot of stuff deleted. ] >This is very interesting. I have also found the following (from the >translation by N. J. Dawood, Penguin Books) Surah 17, verse 103: > >"He [Pharaoh - mentioned in the previous verse] sought to scare them out >of the land: but We drowned him, together with all who were with him. >Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land. When the promise of > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'" >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >This definitely reads as a promise by God to the Israelites that in the ^^^^^^^^^^ >times shortly preceding the "hereafter", He will gather them all together. >It is entirely in agreement with the other above-mentioned prophecies in >the Bible. You my friend have misread and misinterpreted the text of the Quran. I sincerely hope that this was due to a mistake and not intentional. In this verse God is addressing the children of Israel right after bieng brought out of Egypt by Moses (may God's peace be upon him). He told them to dwell in this land, but then he turns around and tells them and the whole of humanity that when the time for the day of judgement comes He will gather all the children of Adam (from Adam to the last one of the inhabitants of earth when the day of judgement comes) on one land and raise them --just like he did when he created them the first time -- for judgement and reward. The words "We shall assemble you all together" in the verse mentioned above are not for the children of Israel by them selves but rather a reminder for the whole of humanity that there is going to be a time when we all will stand together to meet God. The problem is that you are trying to understand the verses of Quran without having a complete comprehension of the rest of it. Parts of the Quran explain each other. You can not take a verse and build on it without considering all the other verses relating to the subject.
isaac@goanna.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Isaac Balbin) (11/07/90)
gwydion@tavi.rice.edu (Basalat Ali Raja) writes: >line between politics and religion. Such is not the case >with Islam. Israel has taken over Muslim lands, and still >holds them, refusing to acknowledge th eexistence of the >state of Palestine. Furthermore, it insists on brutalizing >the Palestinians and jailing them when they try to protest. You seem to imply that there is an Islamic meaning to a State of Palestine. What is your source? Was the 1948 UN Partition plan for a divided state not compatible with Islam? Was that why that concept was rejected? If so, which areas exactly form the Islamic state of Palestine. I stress Islamic here, because your article would imply that there is a concept of *Muslim* lands. -- ``A College degree is a right; not a privilege"
gordon@CSSUN.TAMU.EDU (Dan Gordon) (11/08/90)
In article <1990Nov6.041954.27132@nntp-server.caltech.edu> soudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) writes: <In article <1990Nov3.210105.11983@nntp-server.caltech.edu> gordon@cssun.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) writes: <>This is very interesting. I have also found the following (from the <>translation by N. J. Dawood, Penguin Books) Surah 17, verse 103: <> <>"He [Pharaoh - mentioned in the previous verse] sought to scare them out <>of the land: but We drowned him, together with all who were with him. <>Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land. When the promise of <> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <>the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'" <>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <>This definitely reads as a promise by God to the Israelites that in the < ^^^^^^^^^^ <>times shortly preceding the "hereafter", He will gather them all together. <>It is entirely in agreement with the other above-mentioned prophecies in <>the Bible. < In this verse God is addressing the children of Israel right after <bieng brought out of Egypt by Moses (may God's peace be upon him). He told <them to dwell in this land, but then he turns around and tells them and the <whole of humanity that when the time for the day of judgement comes He will <gather all the children of Adam (from Adam to the last one of the inhabitants <of earth when the day of judgement comes) on one land and raise them --just like <he did when he created them the first time -- for judgement and reward. < < The words "We shall assemble you all together" in the verse mentioned <above are not for the children of Israel by them selves but rather a reminder <for the whole of humanity that there is going to be a time when we all will <stand together to meet God. The problem is that you are trying to understand <the verses of Quran without having a complete comprehension of the rest of it. <Parts of the Quran explain each other. You can not take a verse and build on it <without considering all the other verses relating to the subject. Please read the sentence carefully: THEN WE SAID TO THE ISRAELITES: '...' The part that I have capitalized precedes the quotes, and it tells us that the part in quotes is what God told the Israelites. The part in quotes contains the 2 sentences, but both of them are inside the same quotes and preceded by the capitalized part. In other words, God is telling us what He told the Israelites. Are you implying that we are not supposed to read it as it is? I'm sure you are not suggesting that the Koran is in error. So, if you think it means something else, please provide a reference that explains why this particular sentence should not be read literally.
zama@midway.uchicago.edu (iftikhar uz zaman) (11/22/90)
A gentleman has asked regarding the "Islamic" view of the state of
Israel. The discussion this is generating is already bordering on issues
of free-will and determinism. This is natural: if the Prophet said something
will happen it will--and this is deterministic. But note this: even
if we know *for sure* that something will happen, and even if we know that
it is the will of God, this does not determine that it is also the will of
God that we be happy with it. It might be the will of God to set up the
most stringent tests of our faith--in which we would demonstrate our
committment to doing what is good by doing it against literally insurmountable
odds.
I am reminded of Maulana Mahmud al-Hasan who, when he was imprisoned
in Malta, would take a bath (as well as he could), dress in his best clothes
and try to do what he could to prepare for Friday prayers. Then he would
go to the jailkeeper and tell him "I have to go for Friday prayers, please
open the door." The jailkeeper, who had grown to respect him, would apologize
and say "you know I can't do that." Then the Maulana, satisfied that he had
done his best, would pray Zuhr, instead, in his cell. This ritual would be
repeated every Friday for the many years he was there...
In article <1990Oct27.003307.14824@wpi.WPI.EDU> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>If we accept this logic, then every evil can be considered the will
>of god.
If God tests us by creating an evil for us to fight then: (i) we can consider
that evil to be the will of God, (ii) we can consider it our duty to struggle
against that evil--our struggle being the "will of God" in a higher sense
(i.e. in the sense of morally responsible behaviour) than the existence of
that evil which is the "will of God" in a lower sense (in that it is like
the circumstances of our struggle -- it is determined, like the weather in
which we are being commanded to follow God's will).
>The fact that an evil survives for a while does not legitimize the evil.
Again, this is based on the idea that "will of God" means just one thing.
No. Fuqaha distinguish between "al iradah al-takwiniyya" (the will in the
sense of creation) and "al iradah al-tashri'iyya" (the will in the normative
sense). God creates circumstances. Then he gives his commands. The word
"will of God" is used in both places, but obviously it means very different
things.
>Allah says in Quran that god will not change the conditions of a nation until
>they change it themselves.
I do believe that the translation should actually be "God *does not* change
the circumstances..." i.e. He is explaining his "habit" (sunna) and not
telling us about the future. I believe the justification for this is the
context of the aya.
>Islam can not accept, or even tolerate the existence of such an immoral and
>corrupt government in the Muslim land.
This use of the word "Islam" plays right into the ambiguity of the two
types of "will." God can certainly tolerate the existence of lots of
evil in this world (look around you...). But Man is not allowed to live
in the midst of evil without struggling against it. He is not even
responsible for destroying it--the success and failiure of his efforts is
in God's hands who will determine the such results according to his
Wisdom (which we have neither any inkling of, nor do we have the capacity
to comprehend).
>Only the will and determination of all Muslims can determine the course of the
>history.
I must say very strongly that this last statement is %^&%^%$$%#. Only the
will of Allah determines the course of anything...(at least as far as
La ilaha illa Allah, and La Hawl wa la Quwwata ila Allah tell us). Muslims
will certainly be judged on the basis of their will and determination.
May Allah grant us all that we be careful in what we say in the heat of
the moment...
Aameen.
To return to the question which raised all of this:
(i) The People of Israel -- Bani Isra'il -- are not the same as "residents
of the modern state of Israel." (minor point)
(2) Prophecies regarding the signs of the Final Days (ashrat al-sa'ah)
are numerous. But to tie them together in a relative fashion in order
to determine a chronology (first the Jews will gather together, then
the Mahdi will appear, then the Antichrist [dajjal] will appear and
his armies will conquer everything until only Medina is left, beseiged,
then armies will come "from the East" etc...) is ALWAYS speculative.
There is an admirable attempt by someone (whose name I forget) in a
book "Israel and the Prophecies of the Holy Quran" but one must
really remember quite clearly: this is speculative. The hadiths tell
us only so much, after that it is guesswork. And, of course, some
guesses seem more well-founded than others...
I remember when Moshe Dayan was alive, many felt that this had to
be Dajjal since the hadiths tell us that he will be "a'war" (blind in
one eye)...There is a great Arabic word which I would recommend here
"al-ta'anni"--a rendering would be "don't be hasty."
--
La yajrimannakum shan'anu qawmin `ala an-ta`dilu; i`dilu huwa aqrubu li
al-taqwa...
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